being gay sucks for blacks in the u.s.

hello, i am going to rant. i'm sorry but i have to. i am black and i would ideally like to date a black guy that is like me, masculine, job having, indepedent, non druggie and sexually not out there. and that has been like finding a friggin needle in a hay stack.

i am not "out" but honestly i know a lot of people keep saying that there's a plethera of opportunities when you come out but honestly maybe so for whites and asians but for blacks. not so much. black men that are non effeminate men and are masculine are not typically "out". they hide and they DO NOT on the whole go to anything that is labeled gay. yes, they may go to a gay club here or there but that's only if they are "hidden" under baseball caps and clothes to disguise theirselves.

but they are definitely not going to an lgbt event or meeting. sorry, maybe in some areas they do but not in the major metro city i live. also, there are masculine gay men out there but they are very very hidden and its like you need a secret code to find them or gain access to their secret group of other down low dudes friends.so you see, tryin to find a black guy that is comfortable with his sexuality without being effeminate is hard. when you do find them (at clubs) they just are not like straight black guys i meet that are professional. those professional types rae not at the gay club they are in teh secret gay black societies that i do not have access to. so since i do not find effeminate men or beyonce clones to be what i am looking for, it's like wtf do i do.

i try other races and i'm open to that but its the same thing. sex sex sex. or drugs drugs drugs. i met a nice guy but later found out he was a druggie. terrific. yes it was in a club.

i know people are always saying that you should go to other gay events other than clubs but honestly, thats teh only place i can meet other black guys because they ARE NOT at lbgt events. if you understand black culture there is a lot of denial about being gay and secrecry and hate regarding gayness.

im just at my wits end. i do not think i will last much longer.

[Anonymous]

Yes I think you're right so I won't argue with you. But, you said you're open to meeting people of other races right, is there a reason you only did that at a club and not in the lgbt groups? Im not black but I'm south asian and I don't see any others in the queer group I've been too. Sometimes it feels awkward being the only not white person but I guess you have to accept that and try to meet every type of person

[Lexington]

I also won't argue. It's the sort of thing that feeds on itself, in a way.

For instance, there's a bar here in Colorado that's fairly well-known (even in the straight community!) as a "bear bar". Mainly older (25+ - and yes, that's "older" in the club scene!), larger, hairier gay guys. But I don't think they built it that way. I don't think when the place opened, they specifically said "This is going to be the place where the 'bear'-types go." They may have built it as a gay bar, but then more and more 'bears' showed up. And the more that showed up, the more bears (and guys who like bears) started showing up. It sort of feeds on itself.

From what I understand (I have very little direct experience here), it's more common for blacks to feel the need to stay in the closet. Effeminate black guys are probably more likely to come out (who would they be fooling?) and perhaps start going to clubs and whatnot, but the more masculine ones are less likely to go that route. And it seems they end up being like the bear bar I described above - but in reverse. With the bears, they saw a place to go, so they all congregated there. With masculine black gays, there doesn't seem to be a place to go...so they don't go anywhere. Which probably contributes further to the culture of surreptitious "secret black gay societies" you reference.

One reason I usually nudge people towards coming out is this. (Generic "you" here.) So long as you remain in the closet, it limits your contact points. You're basically down to clubs and perhaps online meeting. And both of those routes favor the "one night stand" over the "relationship". Not that you can't meet a boyfriend via either route, but you're far more likely to find somebody to go home with that night than somebody you can simply date. Also, staying closeted sort of emphasizes that route. Being closeted suggests an undercover, "let's not tell anybody about this" sort of mindset - and that's a mindset that's more conducive to one-night-stands (and even drug activity) than a relationship or even a friendship. Not to suggest that one can't date while closeted - many do. But it seems closeted guys are even more prone to run into the "they just want sex" wall than out guys do.

The thing about being out is that you can meet people not just in the dark clubs, but in a coffee shop in the light of day. And that sort of opens up a lot more opportunities. I'm not saying that once you come out, you'll have a line of masculine black gay guys waiting to date you - for all I know, you still will find it really tough to find one. But my thought is that the search will become easier. Simply by virtue of opening up different venues that weren't available to you before.

I can't recall your entire backstory, so I'll ask. Have you ever tried going on a dating site, and actively advertising for a boyfriend? I don't mean craigslist or hook-up sites - I mean an actual, legitimate dating site. Because I'm thinking that if I were a masculine black gay guy looking for same for a relationship, rather than putting on the "baseball cap" and hoping against hope that I'll run into somebody at a club I could date, I'd simply put out a call for one. Just a thought.

Lex

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Lexington

I also won't argue. It's the sort of thing that feeds on itself, in a way.

For instance, there's a bar here in Colorado that's fairly well-known (even in the straight community!) as a "bear bar". Mainly older (25+ - and yes, that's "older" in the club scene!), larger, hairier gay guys. But I don't think they built it that way. I don't think when the place opened, they specifically said "This is going to be the place where the 'bear'-types go." They may have built it as a gay bar, but then more and more 'bears' showed up. And the more that showed up, the more bears (and guys who like bears) started showing up. It sort of feeds on itself.

From what I understand (I have very little direct experience here), it's more common for blacks to feel the need to stay in the closet. Effeminate black guys are probably more likely to come out (who would they be fooling?) and perhaps start going to clubs and whatnot, but the more masculine ones are less likely to go that route. And it seems they end up being like the bear bar I described above - but in reverse. With the bears, they saw a place to go, so they all congregated there. With masculine black gays, there doesn't seem to be a place to go...so they don't go anywhere. Which probably contributes further to the culture of surreptitious "secret black gay societies" you reference.

One reason I usually nudge people towards coming out is this. (Generic "you" here.) So long as you remain in the closet, it limits your contact points. You're basically down to clubs and perhaps online meeting. And both of those routes favor the "one night stand" over the "relationship". Not that you can't meet a boyfriend via either route, but you're far more likely to find somebody to go home with that night than somebody you can simply date. Also, staying closeted sort of emphasizes that route. Being closeted suggests an undercover, "let's not tell anybody about this" sort of mindset - and that's a mindset that's more conducive to one-night-stands (and even drug activity) than a relationship or even a friendship. Not to suggest that one can't date while closeted - many do. But it seems closeted guys are even more prone to run into the "they just want sex" wall than out guys do.

The thing about being out is that you can meet people not just in the dark clubs, but in a coffee shop in the light of day. And that sort of opens up a lot more opportunities. I'm not saying that once you come out, you'll have a line of masculine black gay guys waiting to date you - for all I know, you still will find it really tough to find one. But my thought is that the search will become easier. Simply by virtue of opening up different venues that weren't available to you before.

I can't recall your entire backstory, so I'll ask. Have you ever tried going on a dating site, and actively advertising for a boyfriend? I don't mean craigslist or hook-up sites - I mean an actual, legitimate dating site. Because I'm thinking that if I were a masculine black gay guy looking for same for a relationship, rather than putting on the "baseball cap" and hoping against hope that I'll run into somebody at a club I could date, I'd simply put out a call for one. Just a thought.

Lex

Hi lex. Thks. No I have not posted on a legit paid dating site. I have been able to search prior to see if I wanted to reach out to people but honestly the number of blks were also limited there with pictures. Most had non pic profiles because they were closeted like me. Also the ones with pics were ok and I have seen some of them at the clubs so its like n my head I think...ok what am I paying for. There were a few that I wanted to reach out to but previous experience on non paid sites made me scared because once you talk to them on the phone or meet them n person theeffeminate traits come out. If they are masculine they modt always are tops(not what im interested n). Just seems really pointless and im ready to give up

[Anonymous]

thanks everyone for tehir helkp and advice i appreciate it. im in a weird place right now. i just kinda accepted this is how it is. i do not want devote anymore energy into meeting someone. it's just a big let down. in my mind i guess i have accepted that that type of person i would like is not out there and if so, is so in the closet i would not meet them. i'll continue to just be myself and be friendly but i will not hope anymore that i will meet someone. i will just accept the solitutde and make the best of it. thanks all. i guess i went through all the stages of grief regarding this and now i'm at acceptance.

[Lexington]

Well, let me put it this way. Let's say there's a guy out there who is pretty much what you're looking for - black, gay, masculine, non-druggie. What should he do to enable somebody like you to meet him?

Lex

[Anonymous]

op here. @ lex.

well a guy like that is most likely not going to be "out" especially if he identifies with black culture. you find more out black men that are professional that also identify with more of a white culture, have more white friends, and also tend to be interested in white men. with that said, there are some masculine black men that are out and like other blaack men, but that usually doesn't happen until they are much older.

what someone could do is just be friendly and initiate conversation and friendship with other black men they are attracted to. exchange numbers and see if any requests to hang out one on one come or any "suspect" text messages come about.

also, if he is interested in someoen like me, things like: smiling, eye contact, continuing to keep conversation going with a stranger, asking for my number or allowing me to get his, small talk, invitations to hang out or accepting mine are all things that he can do let me know that he may be interested. but the problem is, for those who may like a guy, most that are undectably gay are not out and therefore, there is much distrust between other gay or potential gay black men because the last thing someone wants to do is be outed or their name thrown around amongst gay circles. so there is a "feeling out process" where everyone holds their cards very close to the table because if he is wrong, you can potentially "out him" and ruin in his mind..his reputation, his masculinity, his career, how people treat him, his family....everything. so it is very risky in the person's mind to "let the guard down" because they do not want to be associated with the steroptypical image of a gay black man (effeminate, caddy, etc.). when masculinity has such a priority, the worst thing you can do is jepordize that.

therefore, what happens is that the person that is more interested has to do all the work to "feel someoen out" and the other person decides if they want to come out or not. it's a tug of war that is played until both parties feel like it's "safe". this goes on with other races too but when there is a lack of masculine black men that are out, then you tend to find yourself playing this a bit more with that group.

i have done those things to open the door for others to walk through, but it just never ends up working. as you have metnioend before, when things are secretive, they tend to be more "sex oriented" in nature so that is a problem i have found. that even if it is confirmed that they are gay, their interest has typically been in something phsyical. of course this is not a blanket statement for all black closeted gay men. i think do believe there are very many of them out there that actually want to meet someone for things other than sex but i truly believe they are afriad of being outted and all the cultural condemination that comes along with being gay so they either suffer in silence, just get a girlfriend or get married, or live in a state of denial.

there are pretty informal and unstated rules of engagement when it comes to acceptable behaviors and interactions amoung black men and what may instantly push one to believe "ummmm that was a little gayish".

Originally Posted by Anonymous

op here. @ lex.

well a guy like that is most likely not going to be "out" especially if he identifies with black culture. you find more out black men that are professional that also identify with more of a white culture, have more white friends, and also tend to be interested in white men. with that said, there are some masculine black men that are out and like other blaack men, but that usually doesn't happen until they are much older.

what someone could do is just be friendly and initiate conversation and friendship with other black men they are attracted to. exchange numbers and see if any requests to hang out one on one come or any "suspect" text messages come about.

also, if he is interested in someoen like me, things like: smiling, eye contact, continuing to keep conversation going with a stranger, asking for my number or allowing me to get his, small talk, invitations to hang out or accepting mine are all things that he can do let me know that he may be interested. but the problem is, for those who may like a guy, most that are undectably gay are not out and therefore, there is much distrust between other gay or potential gay black men because the last thing someone wants to do is be outed or their name thrown around amongst gay circles. so there is a "feeling out process" where everyone holds their cards very close to the table because if he is wrong, you can potentially "out him" and ruin in his mind..his reputation, his masculinity, his career, how people treat him, his family....everything. so it is very risky in the person's mind to "let the guard down" because they do not want to be associated with the steroptypical image of a gay black man (effeminate, caddy, etc.). when masculinity has such a priority, the worst thing you can do is jepordize that.

therefore, what happens is that the person that is more interested has to do all the work to "feel someoen out" and the other person decides if they want to come out or not. it's a tug of war that is played until both parties feel like it's "safe". this goes on with other races too but when there is a lack of masculine black men that are out, then you tend to find yourself playing this a bit more with that group.

i have done those things to open the door for others to walk through, but it just never ends up working. as you have metnioend before, when things are secretive, they tend to be more "sex oriented" in nature so that is a problem i have found. that even if it is confirmed that they are gay, their interest has typically been in something phsyical. of course this is not a blanket statement for all black closeted gay men. i think do believe there are very many of them out there that actually want to meet someone for things other than sex but i truly believe they are afriad of being outted and all the cultural condemination that comes along with being gay so they either suffer in silence, just get a girlfriend or get married, or live in a state of denial.

there are pretty informal and unstated rules of engagement when it comes to acceptable behaviors and interactions amoung black men and what may instantly push one to believe "ummmm that was a little gayish".

please note, i am not speaking for all black men. i can only speak for my own experience. everyone is different, so do not take any of this to mean this is how all black men are, how all black people think or the experiences all black men have. this is only my experience

[silverhalo]

I am just going to throw this out there but what if on those exact sites you were looking at there were 10 other guys exactly like you but like you they all chose not to sign up or post, sometimes someone has to be the first to take that step forward. I understand that paying for dating sites can seem like a waste, but I also think that they contain less time wasters or people looking for hookups. I also think that if you are worried about being found then they are probably a better option, a lot of them only show photos or allow interaction between paying members, therefore anyone that saw your photo and wanted to out you would also have to be a paying member so I think they are unlikely to be outing you.

[Anonymous]

I am queer and black. I totally understand im a lesbian and totally get you. I have the same problem
And it drives me crazy.

I believe its still hard being a person of Colorado and gay. I was with my girlfriend and she is.black Pol would drive bu in cars. Calling us gay niggers, fags etc. Family members. would say being gay is a white thing.

Making it hard to find intelligent, non drugged, butch, and will. Fuck.anyone. when I do we live thee States away.

[Lexington]

Where are you living? Because I'm in Denver, and I've never seen that sort of behavior here. Maybe I'm just in a sheltered part, though...

Lex

[redstormrising]

there are free dating sites out there -- when i decided to try my hand at internet dating, i really wasn't willing to pay for what would be essentially an experiment. the first site i tried wasn't too great but some of my friends from PFLAG recommended another and i've had better luck there. i'm a pretty feminine-looking woman, and people always assume i'm straight (even in a gay bar!), so i thought maybe it would be easier to find dates online, where my orientation is clear. often the folk who don't have pictures on their profiles are pretty willing to send you a picture if you message them, too. if nothing else, it may be a way to make friends with other men like yourself, which ups the chances that through friends-of-friends you might find someone to date

[Lexington]

^ I think red might have something here. If you go on a free site, and create a profile specifically stating that you're mainly looking for gay black friends, and if you reach out to some others on that site, chances are decent that you'll at least end up with some people to commiserate with.

Lex