Ever think like this?

[Ace17]

When did it start being labeled as "Wrong". I can't remember when I first heard someone say being LGBT was wrong...It has always been their a constant presense in life. It is like a big rain cloud above you, you bring your umbrella everyday as a reminder that it is their. Being a lesbian is like that cloud for me, prejudice hanging above me at every turn....one false step and WHAM! It rains all over me like acid. One sentence misinterperated, one action taken out of context and it consumes me. I never asked to be different, who would? Who would ask to be ridiculed everyday because of something you can't control? I hear about programs that are suppose to turn you straight and make you okay with god and it makes me cry. I don't personally believe in god but those who do and go to extreme lengths to change themselves so they won't go to hell makes me very upset. If god created everyone equal why is their so much prejudice? Why do LGBT men/women get kicked out of their church, told that there is a law saying they can't marry, and get beaten up for being themselves? If we are all equal then how aren't we? We all deserve to be treated equally regardless of sexuality, race, or religion. I hate this world sometimes due to the treatment I recieve from my peers and the treatment I see of others, not including some of the things I read about in papers. All I want is to be free to love who ever I want and be who I am, no prejudice or laws to stop that. New York State had only just passed same sex marriage into law...Why can't it be nation wide, why not have one law for all states not just a few? This is such a bullshit thing to judge people over....sometimes I just hate the world we live in. People are always saying "It gets better" but does it really get better...and if so, when?


-Sorry to anyone who was stuck reading this, I have a habit of ranting...

Simple Plan - Welcome To My Life (Official Video) - YouTube

[maverick]

It's stupid, and honestly I blame a lot of it on the advent of Christianity. In pagan religions and in ancient Western cultures like Greece and the Roman Empire, homosexuality was pretty much a non-issue.

"And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?" - Plato

Google the Sacred Band of Thebes. An entire army of gay soldiers once made Thebes the most powerful city-state in all of ancient Greece.

I'm pretty sure that whole "go forth and multiply" bit (and the anti-homosexual sentiment that originated in the Christian church) has foundations in evangelical motivation. The fastest way to gain new converts is to breed them. And in comparison to heterosexuals, gays aren't the biggest breeders. So in the early days of Christianity, alienating homosexuality - a common practice at the time - was probably considered advantageous for the church.

Plus, nothing brings people together faster like a common irrational dislike for an unrelated party.

(No offense to any gay Christians here, I just call 'em like I see 'em.)

[Ace17]

Originally Posted by maverick

It's stupid, and honestly I blame a lot of it on the advent of Christianity. In pagan religions and in ancient Western cultures like Greece and the Roman Empire, homosexuality was pretty much a non-issue.

"And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?" - Plato

Google the Sacred Band of Thebes. An entire army of gay soldiers once made Thebes the most powerful city-state in all of ancient Greece.

I'm pretty sure that whole "go forth and multiply" bit (and the anti-homosexual sentiment that originated in the Christian church) has foundations in evangelical motivation. The fastest way to gain new converts is to breed them. And in comparison to heterosexuals, gays aren't the biggest breeders. So in the early days of Christianity, alienating homosexuality - a common practice at the time - was probably considered advantageous for the church.

Plus, nothing brings people together faster like a common irrational dislike for an unrelated party.

(No offense to any gay Christians here, I just call 'em like I see 'em.)

Damn I guess Google really does have everything......Thank you...Were did you learn all of this?

[Chouchou]

I'd say (and I am an atheist) that the reason why there's so much prejudice is that all believers want to gain favor with God in order to gain entrance into Heaven. As is the case with human nature, instead of believing that all human beings are children of God and equally deserving of entrance into Heaven, some people will claim that their denomination, ethnicity, or race, is favored by God, or that they as individuals are more deserving of God's favor than others they don't like or who are unlike them (e.g. LGBTs). Now that gay rights and marriage equality are pretty much at the forefront of national discussion, the LGBT community is a convenient target for the self-serving religious zealots. They probably think that bashing gays will help them gain entrance into Heaven because they believe that homosexuals are the Devil's doing or somesuch nonsense, though it seems like God always conveniently hates what they hate.

Religion has always been used to control the masses, and it's absolutely no different to day, but the increasing frequency of vitriolic statements from the zealots means that they feel threatened by the increasing ability of people to think for themselves rather than act like mindless sheep. The sooner this country becomes a nation in which religion is the private matter that it ought to be, and is kept out of public life, the better.

[sanguine]

Originally Posted by maverick

It's stupid, and honestly I blame a lot of it on the advent of Christianity. In pagan religions and in ancient Western cultures like Greece and the Roman Empire, homosexuality was pretty much a non-issue.

"And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?" - Plato

Google the Sacred Band of Thebes. An entire army of gay soldiers once made Thebes the most powerful city-state in all of ancient Greece.

I'm pretty sure that whole "go forth and multiply" bit (and the anti-homosexual sentiment that originated in the Christian church) has foundations in evangelical motivation. The fastest way to gain new converts is to breed them. And in comparison to heterosexuals, gays aren't the biggest breeders. So in the early days of Christianity, alienating homosexuality - a common practice at the time - was probably considered advantageous for the church.

Plus, nothing brings people together faster like a common irrational dislike for an unrelated party.

(No offense to any gay Christians here, I just call 'em like I see 'em.)

i agree with maverick, being a lesbian women or a gay man in the ancient times weren't seen as these big huge taboo's we see in today's societies, we were actually given high status among the society in pagan times, in native indian tribes if you were gay they made you a healer of the tribe or a shamen, same thing is dated in the native african tribes and in egypt, this all disappeared once the white people decided to conquer places that did not even belong to them and in the process destroying any evidence and religions that were not of Christianity, thus deeming such practices as barbaric, primitive and false.

and when you think about it in this way, its the white people who wrote down the history books with many lies and deceptions in the name of God, i dunno about you but this is why i am never turning back to christianity, ever.

[Ace17]

Originally Posted by sanguine

i agree with maverick, being a lesbian women or a gay man in the ancient times weren't seen as these big huge taboo's we see in today's societies, we were actually given high status among the society in pagan times, in native indian tribes if you were gay they made you a healer of the tribe or a shamen, same thing is dated in the native african tribes and in egypt, this all disappeared once the white people decided to conquer places that did not even belong to them and in the process destroying any evidence and religions that were not of Christianity, thus deeming such practices as barbaric, primitive and false.

and when you think about it in this way, its the white people who wrote down the history books with many lies and deceptions in the name of God, i dunno about you but this is why i am never turning back to christianity, ever.

I don't practice a religion and quite frankly the more I think about it the more glad I become, if I were religious it would probably just add more stress and shame to my life....the whole trying to please god aspect anyway...nothing else would do that I don't think. (No offense intended to anyone who is religious.)

[Ace17]

Originally Posted by Chouchou

I'd say (and I am an atheist) that the reason why there's so much prejudice is that all believers want to gain favor with God in order to gain entrance into Heaven. As is the case with human nature, instead of believing that all human beings are children of God and equally deserving of entrance into Heaven, some people will claim that their denomination, ethnicity, or race, is favored by God, or that they as individuals are more deserving of God's favor than others they don't like or who are unlike them (e.g. LGBTs). Now that gay rights and marriage equality are pretty much at the forefront of national discussion, the LGBT community is a convenient target for the self-serving religious zealots. They probably think that bashing gays will help them gain entrance into Heaven because they believe that homosexuals are the Devil's doing or somesuch nonsense, though it seems like God always conveniently hates what they hate.
.

If being straight would send me to Heaven I would rather be who I am now and go to Hell....at least it is always warm their!

[Charni]

I'm a Christian, I am a trans, I am a lesbian, I still believe I will go to heaven. In my opinion if God didn't want people to be LGBT he wouldn't have made them that way.

[DJNay]

I feel you hey, even my parents believe tha being gay comes from "Bad Blood" thts why im in the closet to most of my family. but i agree with Charni, i was a christian all my life, but recently changed to Islam but i still think that God didnt make a mistke with gay, and we are like this for a reason. Most of my Christian friends believe being gay is wrong, like an old school friend of my that i came out to recently was like "the bible says love thy neighbour and thyself, and therefore i accept you, but its still wrong". I was like gee thanks.

[silkfrog1292]

Originally Posted by maverick

It's stupid, and honestly I blame a lot of it on the advent of Christianity. In pagan religions and in ancient Western cultures like Greece and the Roman Empire, homosexuality was pretty much a non-issue.

"And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?" - Plato

Google the Sacred Band of Thebes. An entire army of gay soldiers once made Thebes the most powerful city-state in all of ancient Greece.

I'm pretty sure that whole "go forth and multiply" bit (and the anti-homosexual sentiment that originated in the Christian church) has foundations in evangelical motivation. The fastest way to gain new converts is to breed them. And in comparison to heterosexuals, gays aren't the biggest breeders. So in the early days of Christianity, alienating homosexuality - a common practice at the time - was probably considered advantageous for the church.

Plus, nothing brings people together faster like a common irrational dislike for an unrelated party.

(No offense to any gay Christians here, I just call 'em like I see 'em.)

I agree with Maverick on this. I believe that Semitic religions have a lot to do with the advent of homophobia and most of the persecutions for Homosexuals we see today. In cultures not really touched by Semitic religions, such as pre-colonial India, Feudal Japan or Imperial China, homosexuality is tolerated or even encouraged (as is the case with the Samurai caste in medieval Japan). Similarly, in indigenous tribes it also does not remain an issue. As a fellow EC has stated above, Native American tribes believes homosexuals are "twospirited" and hence make wonderful healers and Shaman, while among the Aboriginals in Australia it is not seen as Taboo at all. Alas homosexual activity is even seen as an initiation into manhood by some pacific islanders (a notable example are the Etoro people of PNG)

However, despite whatever hatred the Chruches hold for us, it does not originally work this way. For example there are numerous sources which states that early christianity at the very least tolerates Homosexuality, with one example being the beutification of St. Sergius & Bacchus, two saints very likely to be homosexual lovers from the 3rd Century AD. What happened in the Middle Ages that turned Christianity into a religion that frowns upon homosexuality (From the Middle Ages onwards persecutions against homosexuals intensified considerably) is beyond my knowledge.

[malachite]

It's funny when I was in the closet that simple plan song was like the story of my life....now I think Sick Puppies Odd One is more like me.

We can say the bible started the whole "gay is wrong thing" truth is people who fear things that are different started it, and the hive minded thinking of 90% of the human race just added fuel to the fire.


Where is started isn't as important as how it gonna end and that is just knowledge. When someone "hates" gay people ask the question how many do they know? And what do think of when they say gay. Bet it's some crazy notion that gays created AIDS and we all dress in boas and high heels (neither of which I good in by the way)

Bet you most people who hurl the bible at gays, like its the holy hand grenade of antioch, don't even know what verse the no gay quote is in (Leviticus 18:22).

Which read Leviticus 19:19 and Leviticus 11:11 and tell this guy's head wasn't on straight.

[maverick]

Were did you learn all of this?

The Internet. Just do some research on queer history. Like you said, Google really does have everything.

Ironically, it was a gay man named Billy Sipple who saved the life of President Gerald Ford when his assassination was attempted in 1975.

There's a lot of positive stuff you won't hear about when it comes to the queers unless you look for it yourself, because there are a lot of people invested in maintaining us as a demonized minority.

Gods forbid any of us be recognized as successful or even *gasp* heroes.

[Ace17]

Thank you all....your posts are actually making me feel alot better...You all are so helpful.

[Ace17]

Originally Posted by malachite

It's funny when I was in the closet that simple plan song was like the story of my life....now I think Sick Puppies Odd One is more like me.

We can say the bible started the whole "gay is wrong thing" truth is people who fear things that are different started it, and the hive minded thinking of 90% of the human race just added fuel to the fire.


Where is started isn't as important as how it gonna end and that is just knowledge. When someone "hates" gay people ask the question how many do they know? And what do think of when they say gay. Bet it's some crazy notion that gays created AIDS and we all dress in boas and high heels (neither of which I good in by the way)

Bet you most people who hurl the bible at gays, like its the holy hand grenade of antioch, don't even know what verse the no gay quote is in (Leviticus 18:22).

Which read Leviticus 19:19 and Leviticus 11:11 and tell this guy's head wasn't on straight.

That song is sadly still ringing true to my life...

[Pseudojim]

Faith is ok, nothing wrong with it. Dogma isn't so cool, a lot of the time.

[Ace17]

Originally Posted by Pseudojim

Faith is ok, nothing wrong with it. Dogma isn't so cool, a lot of the time.

Agreed, not religious, but I agree. :P

[Eleanor Rigby]

People are always saying "It gets better" but does it really get better...and if so, when?

I'm straight, married to a man, raised roman catholic by homophobic parents and still I'm an EC member for nearly 3 years, I've been voting for a party that defends gay rights since I am 18 and I'm trying to teach tolerance for all differences to my pupils at school
I know the world looks depressing sometimes, but remember all children are born with a brain and a heart, and I do believe most of them will learn how to use them.
It takes time to change society, even more time to change churches, but we'll get there
hold on !
Cécile

[Ace17]

Originally Posted by Eleanor Rigby

I'm straight, married to a man, raised roman catholic by homophobic parents and still I'm an EC member for nearly 3 years, I've been voting for a party that defends gay rights since I am 18 and I'm trying to teach tolerance for all differences to my pupils at school
I know the world looks depressing sometimes, but remember all children are born with a brain and a heart, and I do believe most of them will learn how to use them.
It takes time to change society, even more time to change churches, but we'll get there
hold on !
Cécile

Thank you.

-p.s. Everytime I see your username I get The Beatles stuck in my head.