Why do some gay people snub closeted gays?

[Anonymous]

So yea, why? If you are gay and you think someone else is gay, but he/she isn't out at the gay bar or out in any other way that you know, would you ignore that person? Why not try to befriend that lonely person instead of ignoring him/her just because you don't see him/her at the local gay bar? Treating others that way supports the perception that gays are cliquey and that makes people not want to come out and be associated with other gay people if they're all such heartless snobs.

[Anonymous]

Maybe because closeted gays aren't very friendly back, and there's a stink of homophobia attached to them?

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Maybe because closeted gays aren't very friendly back, and there's a stink of homophobia attached to them?

this

and because they will automatically think your coming on to them

[No One]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

this

and because they will automatically think your coming on to them

I think this is a very rude statement. There are very many closeted gay men and lesbians (many on this site) who are very kind.

[TheEdend]

Its not as simple as it sounds. It would be great if you could tell that someone was gay and closeted and that you could reach out to them in order to offer them some help. The truth is, though, that its something that is near impossible to do for many reason.

For starters, its near to impossible to be 100% sure that someone is gay. You might have an idea, but its also not consider polite to assume that someone is a certain orientation. I don't agree with that personally, but A LOT of people take offense if you get their sexuality wrong. On top of that, closeted gay people might be more offended than most people since they can be paranoid of "showing" their "gayness" and you can become their worst fear by approaching them. Not to mention that a lot of closeted gay people avoid openly gay people because they fear people might get their suspicions.

Overall, for better or for worse, its sort of a rule to let closet cases be. Its up to the person who needs help to ask for it and to approach other people. Trust me, though, that most people that I know will more than gladly help someone out who comes out to them.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Maybe because closeted gays aren't very friendly back, and there's a stink of homophobia attached to them?

Perhaps this is the very kind of attitude closeted gay people don't want to associate with. Please deal with your anger and feelings of frustration without generalizing and slamming people who are trying to work out their sexuality.

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Perhaps this is the very kind of attitude closeted gay people don't want to associate with. Please deal with your anger and feelings of frustration without generalizing and slamming people who are trying to work out their sexuality.

The OP is asking why some out gay people snub closeted gays and that's a very real reason why.

It's one that I have experienced first-hand but didn't realize was happening at the time. When I was in high school there was a boy a grade above me who was notoriously rude to just about everyone but he went out of his way to bother obvious minorities. The foreign exchange students sat at my table sometimes during lunch, along with one of the only black girls in the entire school who is one of my best friends. He shouted all kinds of truly horrible things at them and I'm sure he said plenty of homophobic things behind my back as well. He had a swastika tattooed on his chest along with the number 666. I'll give you three guesses. Who do you think I saw on a gay dating site a few months ago? Who do you think tried chatting me up while we were standing in line at a gas station together?

I posted in the "What are you thinking?" thread a few days ago that a friend of a friend has finally come out of the closet after we've confronted him point blank about his sexuality for YEARS. Like Gus said, people in the closet have to come to terms with it on their own, at their own pace. It's their responsibility to seek help if they need it, and those of us who are already out aren't to blame when they refuse it or even worse criticize both it and the people giving it. If anyone has to deal with their anger and personal frustration here, it's some of the closeted gays. Those of us who are out have most likely already moved beyond the 'grieving process' and minority stress, to some extent, that comes with being LGBT.

To answer the question the OP asked though; I try not to snub anyone unless they give me a very good reason to act otherwise. I would never date a closeted person because I'm not going to sneak around or keep any relationship a secret. If they flirted with a girl or worse to maintain their heterosexual 'image' I would truly be offended, which has happened to some posters on EC. I've been friends with plenty of closeted LGB people though, and I never had any problem with them. I actually love answering their questions and listening to their problems when they feel like talking about them.

[toremi]

I'm just curious, I have a question for the OP...

Did you mean the said gay people "know that you are a closeted gay person, but because you aren't out in anyway they want nothing to with you" or "they do not know they are you are closeted gay and they want nothing to do with you"

The first time I read it I immediately took it as the first statement, but then after reading everyone's comments and then re-reading I am assuming you mean they have no inclination that you are gay and struggling?

In which case, yeah I mean there would be no way for them to know.

[midwestgirl89]

It seems like there is some disagreement on this issue depending on experiences.

What do you mean by befriending? And how would you know that person is gay? I wait until it's confirmed 100% before assuming that they are for sure gay.

I'll speak from my own experience. I have felt left out or "cold-shouldered" by LGBT individuals at school before. They were clique-ish but once I got to know them, I felt more welcome. It took a while though....They were hard to crack.

It was both their fault and my fault (as to why I felt left out). That specific group is not welcoming in general to new folks. And I was very stand-off ish around them because I didn't want people to know I'm gay. I projected my own fears and insecurities on them. I was a little bit internally homophobic and didn't want to be associated with anything gay.

Usually, I have no idea if someone is a closeted gay person unless they tell me. And I befriend people of all sexual orientations anyway. If I saw a person standing alone I might go talk to them because I like to be friendly but if I am too scared I might not. For instance, if it is an attractive gay female....I probably would be too intimidated to talk to her. I wouldn't mean to snub her.

I think there are many reasons why closeted and "out"individuals may snub/feel snubbed by one another.

1. The "out" person may not know that the closeted person is gay.
2. The "out" person may feel awkward about talking to someone that is shy. Sometimes the shy person has to make the effort to talk even if it's hard. It's hard to talk to new people.
3. The closeted person might be insecure and act very stand-off ish around gay people.
4. The "out" person may feel like they are unsure how to act around a closeted person, afraid they will say too much in public about being gay.
5. The out person may not realize he/she is snubbing the closeted person. He/she may not even realize they are snubbing someone.
6. The gay people you or others have met may have simply been unfriendly. There are many friendly LGBT people but there are also unfriendly LGBT people as well. We are as diverse as any other group.
7. It could have nothing to do with the closeted person. Maybe the "out" person is busy at a birthday party or is dealing with family issues.


I think it's a complicated thing and that no one side is more "right" than the other. I hope things get better for you soon. I hope everyone can find a LGBT community that is welcoming and kind to each other.

[Anonymous]

OP here Thanks for the good thoughts and experiences on this topic. For me, I am friendly to anyone who will accept it. I talk to some gay people I know and they are really good. I'm not afraid to be seen talking and joking with them. So maybe it is just some stuck up gay people same as there are some stuck up straight people who are snobs to people they think are beneath them.

My thought that some out gay people resent closeted gays is sorta confirmed by the response, "a stink of homophobia attached to them" and the idea of a "rule" is not surprising that maybe the out gay people talk about the suspected gays and agree they should leave us alone and let us come out first before befriending us. As if to say that we did the hard thing and came out so everyone else must too before you can be in our "club" I just imagine going to a gay bar and some of the guys that ignore me are there and now that they see me at the bar, all of a sudden they can be nice. Of course I agree that not all out gays are rude and cold, likely most are not like that.

To tormi, I meant that people should have a good idea that I'm gay, the fact that I've never dated which is common knowledge, if there is any such thing as gaydar, and picking up on signals. Oh well, I can just talk to them someday. Thanks everyone!

[Mogget]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

To tormi, I meant that people should have a good idea that I'm gay, the fact that I've never dated which is common knowledge, if there is any such thing as gaydar, and picking up on signals. Oh well, I can just talk to them someday. Thanks everyone!

Never having dated can be a sign that the person in question is gay or lesbian and in the closet, but it's hardly the only reason. More generally, it is not reasonable to expect people to know that you're gay if you haven't told them. Gaydar may exist, but it's unreliable at best and most people prefer not to risk offending someone by asking if that person is gay. Add to that the fact that a lot of people who're in the closet want to avoid being around gay people (usually out of fear that they'll be outed) and most gay people aren't going to approach someone who, at best, might be gay and in all probability doesn't want to be approached.

[Anonymous]

Because those people who “snub” closeted people are jerks. And they rather judge a book before opening it to read it. No one will know you unless you take the time to learn about why they may be closeted. It’s unfair to judge someone without giving them a chance.

P.S. If you wanna say that’s a glib interpretation, go ahead, it’s your prerogative- but I speak from experience...I’ve experienced intense "closet bashing"...right here on EC.

[insidehappy]

well im kinda closeted. i mean i have gone to gay bars and such and then i run and hide back in my straight life. i would welcome friends that wanted to befriend me but the problem occurs when they are more out than me and they expect me to be at the same level of outness as they are and any desire for me to go at my own pace is construed as me being homophobic, having issues, self hating and the like. its like instead of being able to accept me where i am, it's more of a "hey i understand where you are, i was there too but im past that now and i dont have to be around that". so that is not really someoen that is a good friend anyway. plus, if you dont want to join the clique, sometimes you're snubbed. but honestly that's fine with me. im not a teenager or college age, and yea, i have guy friends (straight) but i dont run in a clique with them. at some point in your life you have friends but running around with them 247 well into the point where your straight counterparts are married and settled down just seems a bit immature to me.

[TheEdend]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

OP here Thanks for the good thoughts and experiences on this topic. For me, I am friendly to anyone who will accept it. I talk to some gay people I know and they are really good. I'm not afraid to be seen talking and joking with them. So maybe it is just some stuck up gay people same as there are some stuck up straight people who are snobs to people they think are beneath them.

My thought that some out gay people resent closeted gays is sorta confirmed by the response, "a stink of homophobia attached to them" and the idea of a "rule" is not surprising that maybe the out gay people talk about the suspected gays and agree they should leave us alone and let us come out first before befriending us. As if to say that we did the hard thing and came out so everyone else must too before you can be in our "club" I just imagine going to a gay bar and some of the guys that ignore me are there and now that they see me at the bar, all of a sudden they can be nice. Of course I agree that not all out gays are rude and cold, likely most are not like that.

To tormi, I meant that people should have a good idea that I'm gay, the fact that I've never dated which is common knowledge, if there is any such thing as gaydar, and picking up on signals. Oh well, I can just talk to them someday. Thanks everyone!

Honestly, it would be WAAAY cooler if gay cliques worked like that. If we made the "new" gays past certain test before joining and the like. In reality,though, its not even close to that. I'm around a lot of gay people and I have never ever heard someone that intentionally planned on ignoring or staying away from a person because they suspected that they were closeted. If anyone said that to me I would honestly punch them in the face.

If you are talking and joking with some of your friends that are gay then are they really snubbing you, though? Have you thought about telling them about you?

[Anonymous]

Op again-- The gay guys I talk to are very nice. The snubbers are other guys who regard me with contempt.

I thought about it more and what I'm feeling is probably that those guys that snub me are not into me whether I'm out or not and that pisses me off. I make up the excuse that it's bc i'm not out that they don't like me to make me feel better. Realy pathetic. It's just a fact of life that those guys won't be into guys like me even if I'm the most out you ever saw.

[Lexington]

OK, lemme see if I've got the context correct.

I apparently know a closeted gay guy. I didn't meet him at the gay bar - that stands to reason, since I don't go to gay bars. But I apparently somehow "know" he's gay. OP, you say it's because you don't date, and perhaps set off the gaydar somehow. OK, cool. I've met people like that. Oftentimes, when presented with somebody like that, I'll just ask, conversationally. "Are you gay?" And presumably, this would be asked in public. How would you respond? If you answered "Yes", then I don't think I'd consider you closeted at all, because you just told somebody you (presumably) didn't know very well that you were gay. So I'm guessing you'd answer "no". At which point, I'd say something like "Sorry - my gaydar isn't all that accurate", we'd probably laugh it off a bit, and talk about other things.

Would I believe your denial? Not necessarily. But I'd accept it. If somebody tells me point-blank that they're not gay, my theory is that they're either straight or so far closeted that it's not worth trying to drag them out. Instead, I'll just keep being gay-and-out Lex, and if they are closeted, hopefully I'll show by example how kick-ass it is to be gay-and-out. I actually do have two casual friends who say they're straight, but they set my gaydar off quite a bit. It wouldn't surprise me if they came out sometime down the line. But I don't harp on it, and I don't hate on them because of it. If they say they're happy with their girlfriend, I believe it.

The only time I'd snub a closeted gay? I don't know if I could date one. Mainly because I date in public. I don't grope or make out with my boyfriend in public, mind you, but I'm going to want to go out to public places with him, and if I meet somebody I know, I'm going to introduce him as my boyfriend. If he has a problem with any of that, I don't think we're compatible.

Lex

[Anonymous]

OP again: Lex, I appreciate your reply and I want to give my thoughts. How would I respond if someone asks me if I'm gay? It depends how well I know the person, how quiet the surroundings are, and how the question was asked. I could have known the person for a long time and found out he hates gays. If it was library silent, with lots of people around I might not be comfortable answering the question. If he asked if i'm gay with in a snide way, I'd be likely to deny it. Now, if I knew the guy was gay and he asked me in a nice way in a setting we wouldn't be overheard, I'd say yea, I'm gay. We don't have to be super closeted to deny it, so much depends on the situation and the person asking. If I knew a guy like you and saw your example, I would trust talking to you. You seem like a real stand up guy and I appreciate all you do here. Thank you!

[Marlowe]

I've been in your shoes and I think you are making the mistake I did in waiting for your white knight to sweep you off your feet and help you out of the closet. First, you probably aren't as potentially gay as you think you are. While I admittedly don't seem gay, I thought that people were bound to pick up on cues like I've never dated and never talk about women and check guys out and get flustered when I talked about dating and never use gender pronouns. I also do have a few physically gay features like a feminized wrist to hand ratio as well as a feminized figure -- wide hips, high waist, etc. I have a slightly nasally voice and I sing in falsetto mostly and I love musicals. This and a million other little things in my mind should have set off other's peoples Gaydar. But everyone was totally surprised. Not a single person I have told was even like, yeah it crossed my mind once.

Trust me I wish I could have had someone like what you want ask me and now I wish that I could help you and other closeted gay people, but the reality is my introvertedness coupled with my awful gaydar and rule of not assuming people are gay leads to a very different result.

Don't wait for someone to ask you. They won't, especially not in your perfect "he's gay and we are out of earshot and he is a nice guy that I trust" You will likely find some other excuse at that point to put it off. This was my experience. I used this sort of scenario to procrastinate in telling people. Now, I think it is a powerful and important experience to work up the courage and tell someone yourself, but maybe you are not at that point yet and that is alright. But if you want to talk about trying to do this, I would certainly be happy to answer your questions and tell you about my experience.