All this....it scares the hell out of me

[Anonymous]

I'm going to pretend that no one is reading this and see if I can be more honest than normal.

I do not like myself at all right now. It's bordering on hate actually, and I've never hated anyone else in my life. I don't want to be bi or gay. I've made anonymous posts here before saying that I don't know, and that maybe I'm straight and just confused, but that's probably not exactly true. I mean, to be thinking things like this, to be absolutely consumed by these niggling doubts; probably means that I'm at least a little bit bi-curious. Or possibly means a wee bit more than that but I seriously don't want to write anything any more concrete, even on anonymous.

I don't want to be like that. Something that I've never written before (because I care too much of what everyone thinks of me, even anonymously on EC and because it seems such a horrible thought) - is that it feels like a disability. Something that would impair how I can live my life. The pathetic thing is that one of my two best friends is gay. And I don't think his being gay is a problem. It's only me that I have a problem with.

I am really shy and don't make friends easily so my family is seriously important to me. I don't want to be a dissapointment to them. This could be something that they would have a problem with. Sexuality, sex, relationships in general are almost taboo topics in our house, but the only times I've heard gay people mentioned are as the butt of jokes or, well, as strange.

I don't want to tell anyone about this ever. Hell, I can't even talk about this stuff off anonymous here; I made a few inconsequential posts under my own username but then chickened out and haunted the anonymous forums. At the same time, I don't want to accept this, because if I did then I don't think I could bear hiding something so big. I have friends at college who I know would be accepting, but I don't want to tell them either. Because what if I'm wrong? I also wouldn't want them to know how scared and ashamed and disgusting this makes me feel, especially when all of my friends either have gay friends or are gay themselves. I don't want them to know that sometimes this makes me so angry at myself that I've wanted to hurt myself. I don't want to have to talk about why I think I might not be straight, I've never chatted about crushes with my friends, that seems totally private and off limits.

I'm scared that maybe I've tricked myself into thinking that I might not be straight. That maybe this is just my imagination going wild. That by joining this website and reading posts by gay people I've used their thoughts in this fantasy and just confused myself further. It's possible. It's also really confusing; because all this is entirely theoretical, I've never done anything outside of my head.

What I just wrote could be completely unintelligible. But I can't read back over it because I'll just end up deleting chunks of it. So sorry if you read it.

[Nocturnal]

I understand your family situation. I'm afraid that they wouldn't be supportive. But I plan to tell them when I'm ready. Don't be ashamed of who you are. That is you, & you like what you like. You're not tricking yourself. It's okay to feel curious. The best thing you could do is open up to a friend.

[Jim1454]

Well... It's OK to be scared. It's OK to be angry. It's OK to be uncertain about how other might react or treat you. All of that is OK - because most of us have been there.

It isn't OK if you're perpetually stuck in that mode. So I'm not sure how long you've been in this spot, but if it's several months then you might need some help to move along to the next stage. And the next stage would be to find some kind of acceptance - at least in yourself.

Forget about your friend and your family. Forget about them for a bit. What about being gay is a problem for you? Just think about that. If everyone in your life were going to be totally 100% accepting, is there anything that would still be an issue for you?

And with respect to not being sure, I'm not sure anyone can ever be completely sure. Sexuality is not binary. It is a spectrum. A continuum. Few people, if any, are 100% gay or 100% straight. I was married to a woman for 9 years. I enjoyed our sex life. I just didn't realize that I would enjoy sex with men more. I was in love with her, but I didn't realize that I would feel a deeper love for a man until I met one and fell in love with him. So it can be really hard to know.

At the same time, if you think you might be gay, it's quite likely that you're not straight. I dont' think many straight people 'wonder' if they're gay. They don't need to question their orientation, because by being straight they are already conforming to the norm, and fitting right in with society. It's generally bi and gay people who start down society's path of heterosexuality that find ourselves not comfortable and having to question that.

But if you're really not sure, then just go with one - even if just for a bit. Stop questioning and decide that you're gay/straight and stick with that for 6 months. Vow to not question yourself for that period and live life as if you were gay or straight. At the end of 6 months - revisit the question.

And with respect to posting anonymously, if you've already done so, it's a little frustrating for those of us giving you advice if you're asking the same questions over and over again. We dont' want to ignore anyone - so we answer. But it might be easier for everyone if you posted under your (anonmymous) user name so that we can get to 'know' you a little. The advice can be deeper and more specific to your situation. Because I feel like I've said a lot of this already in the last couple of days - and maybe I've said it already to you.

[Anonymous]

I have felt like this for months. I'm really, utterly sick of it but I don't know what to do to move out of this spot. I think part of the problem is that I keep coming back to 'well maybe I still don't know, in fact, maybe I'm just making this whole thing up.' Which is why although it's a good idea, I'm not sure if deciding on straight or gay for six months would work for me. I'm kind of worried that I've been rehashing this over and over in my head so much that I wouldn't be able to just relax and pick one for starters. I think I'd just choose straight because it's easier and I'm so tired of thinking about this and worrying about getting caught on EC. Deciding I'm straight for half a year would probably mean I'd end up leaving EC too, the what ifs wouldn't stop otherwise. Which I suppose could be a good thing, but if there actually is something that I need to accept, then I can see doing that being something that would seriously mess me up. (more than I obviously am already)Sorry, I don't know if that made any sense.

If everyone in your life were going to be totally 100% accepting, is there anything that would still be an issue for you?

I really had to stop and think before I answered this. Weirdly, considering how many disaster scenarios I've imagined, I've never actually imagined getting perfect responses from everybody.
Even if people's reactions were fine, they'd still want to talk about why I think I mightn't be straight. And maybe it's because I had a very sexually repressive upbringing, but the idea of actually talking about things that feel so private is disturbing. Actually, I think that I have a real problem thinking of myself as a sexual person at all, regardless of my sexuality. Not entirely sure here, but I think that maybe, the idea of actually being in a relationship, or just putting myself out there and opening myself to the possibility of one is really intimidating to me. I suppose, I'm really scared of being vulnerable like that, and if I keep saying that I'm unsure then it's a way of avoiding that. And now I sound really messed up.


I'm really sorry for bothering you. I feel like a pest now. I have posted something a bit like this before, but that was a while ago, and there was a lot of things I wrote this time that I couldn't bring myself to last time. Part of the reason that I do post anonymously is that I am very much stuck where I am, and even though posting on here is helping and I am making a tiny bit of progress, it's so small that I think everyone would get really sick of me if I posted under my own name. I'll stop posting anonymously if people are getting fed up with me. I'm just scared that doing that will actually end up meaning that I stop posting all together. I've tried making myself post under my own name before, but could only bring myself to talk about fairly inconsequential things. I kept deleting (before I sent them) any posts about the self-hating feelings that are really bothering me. I'm kind of ashamed to be even thinking this stuff, let alone have people whose opinions I respect, attach those ideas to me. I'll try to see if I can post under my own name though.

[Lad123]

Don't be scared to post under your own name. People here like to help no matter how many times the same person asks for it Take a look at Gazza123 for example, he more or less posts the same things being miserable and having no friends etc but people always find the time to respond xD

[Dummy]

I don't think that anyone is fed up with you. I know I'm not. Although it would be a good step for you to write under your own name that doesn't mean that you can't keep this if it makes you feel better. This is what this thread is about. I believe that the best thing to do is explore your feelings. Don't be afraid of what other people might think. There's nothing wrong with you no matter if you're gay,bi,straight or anything. Since sexuality has become a taboo issue to you the best thing to do is to talk openly about it, just get used to be cool with all this stuff. I felt this way inside but when I talked about it, it all made sense for the first time in my head. Let yourself feel. Don't worry. I'd also recoment for you not to leave EC. Personaly it has helped me a lot in only these few days that I'm a member. My head is totaly cleared. It takes more time deppending on the person. Give yourself some more time. Don't be afraid and work it out. I hope everything turns out great for you.

[Jim1454]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I have felt like this for months. I'm really, utterly sick of it but I don't know what to do to move out of this spot. I think part of the problem is that I keep coming back to 'well maybe I still don't know, in fact, maybe I'm just making this whole thing up.' Which is why although it's a good idea, I'm not sure if deciding on straight or gay for six months would work for me. I'm kind of worried that I've been rehashing this over and over in my head so much that I wouldn't be able to just relax and pick one for starters. I think I'd just choose straight because it's easier and I'm so tired of thinking about this and worrying about getting caught on EC. Deciding I'm straight for half a year would probably mean I'd end up leaving EC too, the what ifs wouldn't stop otherwise. Which I suppose could be a good thing, but if there actually is something that I need to accept, then I can see doing that being something that would seriously mess me up. (more than I obviously am already)Sorry, I don't know if that made any sense.

I'll likely sound impatient here... but I'm not sure what else to say.

You're sick of wondering. But even if you were to 'pick a team' - even temporarily - you would still keep wondering. So are you really saying that this is hopeless? That there's no hope of you ever figuring this out? I don't think that's true.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I really had to stop and think before I answered this. Weirdly, considering how many disaster scenarios I've imagined, I've never actually imagined getting perfect responses from everybody.
Even if people's reactions were fine, they'd still want to talk about why I think I mightn't be straight. And maybe it's because I had a very sexually repressive upbringing, but the idea of actually talking about things that feel so private is disturbing. Actually, I think that I have a real problem thinking of myself as a sexual person at all, regardless of my sexuality. Not entirely sure here, but I think that maybe, the idea of actually being in a relationship, or just putting myself out there and opening myself to the possibility of one is really intimidating to me. I suppose, I'm really scared of being vulnerable like that, and if I keep saying that I'm unsure then it's a way of avoiding that. And now I sound really messed up.

Well, we're all messed up to one degree or another. But I think this is telling. First - you still haven't talked about how YOU would feel being gay if everyone else around you was totally fine with it. Instead you're still worrying about what others are going to think and what others are going to ask. And you're admitting that you don't feel comfortable talking about intimate things with people. Well, if you're ever going to have a relationship with someone, you're going to have to talk about intimate things. So maybe it's time to seek professional help to start dealing with some of these fears about vulnerability.

I assume you want to eventually be in a relationship. If not, then this entire discussion about your orientation isn't really necessary.

And finally, not many people ASK how we knew we were gay. Because the answer they would get is "I found out that I like fucking other guys." And most people, no matter how accepting they are, don't really want to think about their friends or their kids or their coworkers having sex with anyone. It makes them as uncomfortable hearing it as it would make you uncomfortable saying it! And of course there are other signs. Like being emotionally attracted to guys, etc. But really - the answer is fairly obvious to everyone - they don't need to ask.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I'm really sorry for bothering you. I feel like a pest now. I have posted something a bit like this before, but that was a while ago, and there was a lot of things I wrote this time that I couldn't bring myself to last time. Part of the reason that I do post anonymously is that I am very much stuck where I am, and even though posting on here is helping and I am making a tiny bit of progress, it's so small that I think everyone would get really sick of me if I posted under my own name. I'll stop posting anonymously if people are getting fed up with me. I'm just scared that doing that will actually end up meaning that I stop posting all together. I've tried making myself post under my own name before, but could only bring myself to talk about fairly inconsequential things. I kept deleting (before I sent them) any posts about the self-hating feelings that are really bothering me. I'm kind of ashamed to be even thinking this stuff, let alone have people whose opinions I respect, attach those ideas to me. I'll try to see if I can post under my own name though.

You're not bothering us. Part of the frustration is we want to help. And it would appear that we're not helping. And that is frustrating. None of us like the idea of you agonizing over this for months at a time.

My whole point about picking one side or the other is to try it on. Say to yourself in the mirror every morning "I'm gay and I'm OK with that. I like guys. I want to have a relationship with a guy. I want to have sex with a guy. And Im' OK with all of that."

I really don't think it's possible to brainwash yourself into being gay. That will either feel right or it won't.

You're right - the easier thing to do would be to assume you were straight. So try that on instead. Date women. You don't need to marry one. Just date one. See how that goes. See if it makes you happy.

If you're convinced that neither will make you happy, then you have some other issues that you need to likely address. And that's not me slamming you or putting you down. I'm a recovering addict. I know all about having issues. But if you don't deal with them in a healthy and productive way, you'll eventually end up dealing with them in a really unhealthy and destructive way (like I did). So it might be time to call in a professional to help you sort through some of this.

[Lexington]

One of the staff members here uses a good term - "analysis paralysis". That's when you either get so caught up in "data collection" that you don't do anything but collect data...or, semi-related, that you get so scared of moving beyond the "data collection" part that you decide to stay in that spot for as long as possible.

Over the past several months (or years), you've spent more than a little time collecting data for the basic question "What am I? What turns me on? What am I interested in?" And it seems you still can't answer that question definitively. That's not that unusual, as other threads on this website will tell you. But you appear to have reached the end of this portion of the experiment. It's not like you haven't thought about this enough, or mulled it over in enough ways. There's nothing more to be learned there.

Here's the good news. The next step in the experiment isn't to announce to the world what your findings are. I mean, it CAN be, if you want it to, but you don't have to. The real next move - apply what you've learned.

So apply. Try it on for size.

Fantasize about whatever you want. If you find a guy or a girl cute, look them over (surreptitiously). Whichever way your heart and genitals are tugging, go for it. This is still all internal. Nobody has to know which side(s) you're thinking about, or which participants. This isn't the time to give any thought to "what people will say" or "how disappointed they'll be". You're not getting graded on this - that'd be like getting graded on how you ordered your ice cream. It's for YOU. Go pick what YOU want, and go enjoy what YOU want. All the other BS can wait.

Lex

[rg93]

Mr or Ms Anonymous,

Don't ever think that we here are ever impatient or reluctant to answer every single one of your questions and go deep into your story to give you the most useful advice possible. We will answer every one of your posts because the most of us have been in your spot to some degree or another and we know how messed up and unfair life can feel.

I think what Jim is trying to do is put you in the theoretical universe, where everyone would be 100 % OK and supportive with you being gay to make it easier for you to judge if the self-hatred is coming from you or just you hating the idea, that you dont "fit the social norm" and that people won't see it how it acutally is.

As for your reluctance to being open about topics and conversations about sexual orientation, you're kinda going to have to get used to that, because it's the easiest way and there isn't any reason for holding back if countless others don't either.

Just try to use our tips to make yourself feel abit more.. comfortable. Maybe you could even go into more detail and tell us what's on your mind. There's no need to feel ashamed here at EC. We're all brothers and sisters of sorts and each of us have been though hell.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
I'm sorry to keep bothering you guys, but I kept trying to start a thread under my own name yesterday, and I just couldn't. And for some reason I seem to be unusually open in this thread and this is helping, so I might keep it for a while if that's ok.

you still haven't talked about how YOU would feel being gay if everyone else around you was totally fine with it.

It would feel wrong. It's completely illogical and something that I don't want to admit to but it would feel like there was something broken about me. Even if everyone else was fine with it, I think I'd be ashamed to have them know. I think I'd think less of myself.

It's not so much that I'm just scared of people asking why I think I mightn't be straight. If I told people, then my friends would ask if I fancied anyone. That is a pretty normal topic of conversation for friends, and they'd definitely be interested about me, because I've never actually mentioned liking anyone before. But the idea of that makes me really uncomfortabe. Having to talk to them about having a crush on one of my (same sex) friends, would make me feel creepy and perverted.

you get so scared of moving beyond the "data collection" part that you decide to stay in that spot for as long as possible.

This sounds exactly like me. I have tried trying on being gay, and then straight for a few days. It made me feel really uncomfortable (and creepy whenever I found myself staring at members of the same sex), but I also kept finding myself using it as data collection, as an experiment than absolutely could not be true. Even though this uncertainty is making me miserable, it's as if I really don't want to settle on anything, to make it real and take it out of the entirely theoretical.

You're right - the easier thing to do would be to assume you were straight. So try that on instead. Date women. You don't need to marry one. Just date one. See how that goes. See if it makes you happy.

I don't think I want to do that though. Which is stupid because I really should. I mean, if I'm not sure, if I still might be straight, then it's ridiculous to feel more inclined to give being gay for six months a go(internally). That just sounds like a horrible idea, terrifying and risky. And the idea that I might even be considering doing that, makes me really really angry at myself.

Lex; I'm not ignoring what you said about just trying to fantasise about who I want and not think about what it means. I'll try to relax more about this stuff. Even if that didn't come across at all in what I wrote above.

[Lexington]

It would feel wrong. It's completely illogical and something that I don't want to admit to but it would feel like there was something broken about me. Even if everyone else was fine with it, I think I'd be ashamed to have them know. I think I'd think less of myself.

And THIS, I think, is the part that needs to be worked on. Let's use me as an example. Your mindset that it's OK for others (like me) to be gay, but not you, suggests that me and thee are somehow different. It's illogical for you to be gay, but it's logical for me to be gay. Being gay means something's "broken" in you, but not in me.

It's not uncommon to see people early on in the "questioning period" fall into that second mindset. To them, it's a bit like, oh, looking up during the first day of school, thinking you're in Introduction and finding out you're in Advanced Russian. Where there's nothing wrong with the class itself, and you don't have any problem with any of the other students there, but you're positive you're not supposed to be in there. Everybody else there apparently is SUPPOSED to be there - they probably like Russian and signed up for it - but not you.

But see, it's not like that. None of us signed up to be gay. The main difference between thee and me isn't that I'm supposed to be gay and you're not. It's that I've accepted my sexuality, and you have yet to (whatever it may end up being).

Being gay has its obstacles - no question. But I see more problems with gay folks is either pretending the obstacles don't exist, or by thinking they're insurmountable. They do exist, but there are ways around them. And once you accept that, and take steps to deal with those obstacles, being gay gets a lot easier.

Lex