My twisted dilemma...

[Jordano]

Hi - I just joined last night and finally found the courage to share my story - I really need support and all the advice I can get on this one...

I've been dating my girlfriend for four years now and things have been awesome - I really feel I have a connection with her, like she could even be the one. The only problem is the sexual attraction is gone, it feels as if we're already married. I know I do truly love her but for awhile now I've felt this physical/sexual attraction to a guy. Actually, I've had a sexual attraction to a couple guys over the past year, and so I would tease about it with them, and theyd joke back, but I'm not sure if I'm actually joking anymore or if I really mean it. I actually don't even know if I'm completely straight, gay, or bisexual. There is still some sexual attraction to my girlfriend and like I said I'll probably marry her but in addition I have these physical feelings for this guy. What's going on with me?! I'm just so confused about everything and don't know what to do! Thanks...

[joeyconnick]

Hi there,

I would super-advise against marrying someone you're not all that attracted to. While I think there's some truth in the notion that sex becomes less important for some couples as they age, to me marriage is about a partnership of mind, body, and soul, not just mind and soul. I guess you may feel differently about marriage but at the very least if you're going to marry someone, you should definitely hash that kind of thing out because she may have vastly different expectations.

Anyway, all that is quite separate from your feelings for the guy in question. Maybe you're gay, maybe you're bi... no one else can really tell you that. You need to figure that out on your own but really, it's not so much finding a label that's important; it's figuring out how you feel.

Now if you were single, I would say "go experiment" as that would be the easiest way to get an idea of what's going on. However, you're not so you definitely are facing a dilemma. Some people can figure themselves out without practical experience and some people need "concrete" proof. Only you really know which category you fall into there.

You might want to see if you can find a close, non-judgmental friend you can talk to about your feelings. Often just voicing what's going on inside can help you sort it out. And of course, you can elaborate on what you've mentioned here. I think for most people, telling stories about our lives is how we sort through stuff. So, for instance, how do you know the guys you've been attracted to? How did you first notice you were attracted to them? How did realising you were attracted to them make you feel? What do you feel about gay people? How do you think most people in your life would react if you let them know about your attraction to these guys?

I know that's a lot of questions to throw at you but I think you'll probably benefit from a starting point.

Keep us posted!

[goratrix]

Well... four years? that seems a lot. It might be hard, but I think you should really analyze your feelings for your girlfriend and find out if you really love her or if you are just dependant on the relationship.

Also, having a close friend to talk all this throguh might be of great help. We are here to help you, and we love to do so... but as I recently found out, having someone to talk face to face is irreplaceable.

Marriage? can't talk about it. I think the whole concept of marriage is wrong, but still that's not for me to judge.

[Jordano]

You might want to see if you can find a close, non-judgmental friend you can talk to about your feelings. Often just voicing what's going on inside can help you sort it out. And of course, you can elaborate on what you've mentioned here. I think for most people, telling stories about our lives is how we sort through stuff. So, for instance, how do you know the guys you've been attracted to? How did you first notice you were attracted to them? How did realising you were attracted to them make you feel? What do you feel about gay people? How do you think most people in your life would react if you let them know about your attraction to these guys?


I have a friend I could talk to about this, but I really don't want to tell her the real story, so instead I said I really liked this other girl and we talked about that but it's really not the same and I'm not comfortable or confident enough to tell her the truth yet.

As for the guys I was attracted to in the past, I was in show choir with them. And as you know the stereotypical show choir guy is gay - which reallly makes me mad. But anyway, no one was gay in our show choir so we would joke with each other, specifically with the homophobic ones, and hit on them and just be silly. Well eventually it started feeling natural to hit on them and "play along" with them. Then I guess you could say I developed a crush on one of them, then the other, but knew something like that was crazy, I'm just being weird, I have a girlfriend whom I love more than anything so this is just nonsense.

Then I came to college. I met this guy that reminded me a lot of myself - kinda femmy, funny, great smile, could pass as a stereotypical gay (no offense to anyone, sorry!) So my group of friends, guys and girls, started flirting with each other, just for shits and giggles, and if you knew me, you'd know I am the pick-up line King, I can basically make anything or any situation sexual. So eventually I would just hit on this guy and he would tease me too and we'd laugh and whatnot. Well, I'm really beginning to fell very attracted to him, like I just wanna kiss him and see what happens. But I KNOW he's straight for sure and if I were to do something like that our friendship would be ruined - thats the last thing I want to happen. We have such a strong relationship as friends as it is: we talk to each other almost everyday and see each other in class the same. He's just a really good friend, and if I were to do something I'd regret, or maybe not regret, in the future Im afraid everything would change and be ruined. But I'll never know until I try, right?

My biggest fear is finding out what were to happen if I did tell everyone I was gay or bi because I really don't know yet for sure. Something like this would change my life forever and to be honest I really like the way it is now. But theres still this part of me that wants to just do it and find out. Ugh - theres so much bottled up inside me Im glad I can let it out here. It doesnt even matter if I get advice, just knowing I can write whatever Im feeling makes me less bottled up. Alright! This was my story of the day, my concerns and wonders...

[Jordano]

Alright, now I have a thinker for you...

So like I said, I talk to the guy I like a lot almost every night. Well one night I told him there were some things he'd never know (like the fact that I really like him and my flirting wasn't joking). Every once and awhile he asks why I can't tell him my big secret and I tell him just because its not the time or that no one will ever know.

Tonight I talk to him again and that subject came up. I think he knows about me in some weird way. Part of me really wants to tell him and just kiss him to let him know, cause then if there's anything there I'll know about myself for sure. But the other part still thinks it'll just ruin everything I have now. How should I go about this?!

Just my daily story...haven't gotten any replies on anything I've replied to so is that a hint that I'm just not liked, or dumb, cause I can leave...granted Im not expecting a reply from a million people but one piece of advice would be nice...or maybe Im just overreacting? Oh well...its still nice just to write...hope Im not annoying anyone! If so just tell me..and Im sorry! :icon_frow

[Micah]

Dont be discouraged or upset if you dont get any replies immediately. The active community on these boards is still quite small and not everyone visits everyday.

As for your situation with your friend, I think joeyconnick nailed it when he said that you really need to discover your sexuality before making any decisions.

My next piece of advice is one which i don't think you'll like, but I'll say it anyway. Like both joey and goratrix said, confiding in a friend can be a great help. If you are contemplating marriage with your girlfriend, surely you would be able to discuss anything with her? I realise that striking up a conversation with her about your sexuality isnt going to be the easiest thing to do, however you two are a couple and in a sense are in this together. If you are gay then it also affects her, and as you've been going out with her for 4 years I assume you two are very close.

I know your girlfriend is probably the last person in the world right now who you want to tell, but I think if you work through it together it will make it a lot easier on you. Plus, if you do eventually discover that you are gay, then it will make the whole situation between you and her easier, and theres a greater chance the friendship will survive.

If you do decide not to tell her (which is of course your decision), then I strongly recommend that you don't enter a marriage while having feelings for other guys. Make sure you sort out your sexuality before hand, otherwise you can hurt a lot of people.

Remember that if you need to talk or vent your emotions or confusion, that's what the forums are for - Good luck and if there's anything else we can help with, you need only ask.

Dave

[joeyconnick]

First off... hey, I made a super-long reply to you initially! Do you really want to encourage me to write more? I might send you a book or something. *grin*

I have a friend I could talk to about this, but I really don't want to tell her the real story, so instead I said I really liked this other girl and we talked about that but it's really not the same and I'm not comfortable or confident enough to tell her the truth yet.Yeah, it's not really the same. Not that being interested in someone else when you're in a relationship isn't a big deal but it doesn't really address the whole gay/bi/queer aspect.

As for the guys I was attracted to in the past, I was in show choir with them. And as you know the stereotypical show choir guy is gay - which reallly makes me mad. But anyway, no one was gay in our show choir so we would joke with each other, specifically with the homophobic ones, and hit on them and just be silly. Well eventually it started feeling natural to hit on them and "play along" with them. Then I guess you could say I developed a crush on one of them, then the other, but knew something like that was crazy, I'm just being weird, I have a girlfriend whom I love more than anything so this is just nonsense.Show choir? That sounds fun. As for it being a stereotypically gay thing, well... don't be mad. I mean, stereotypes develop for a reason, usually, and some gay people are always going to fit some of the stereotypes, just like some non-gay people will and get grief for it.

That's cool that you guys could joke about it. Of course, maybe there were gay guys in your show choir and you just didn't know about it.

Then I came to college. I met this guy that reminded me a lot of myself - kinda femmy, funny, great smile, could pass as a stereotypical gay (no offense to anyone, sorry!) So my group of friends, guys and girls, started flirting with each other, just for shits and giggles, and if you knew me, you'd know I am the pick-up line King, I can basically make anything or any situation sexual. So eventually I would just hit on this guy and he would tease me too and we'd laugh and whatnot. Well, I'm really beginning to fell very attracted to him, like I just wanna kiss him and see what happens. But I KNOW he's straight for sure and if I were to do something like that our friendship would be ruined - thats the last thing I want to happen. We have such a strong relationship as friends as it is: we talk to each other almost everyday and see each other in class the same. He's just a really good friend, and if I were to do something I'd regret, or maybe not regret, in the future Im afraid everything would change and be ruined. But I'll never know until I try, right?Well, uh... how do you know he's straight. If you have a girlfriend of four years and you're having feelings for guys, nothing is terribly certain that way.

I have to say if you want to kiss him, which is essentially a romantic thing and not as sexual, say, as wanting to suck him off, that sounds like same-sex feelings to me. I mean, it doesn't mean you don't have feelings for your girlfriend--maybe you're bi--but it doesn't sound so much like it's just that you want to get your rocks off with a guy.

If you reveal your feelings by just out of the blue kissing him, though, it's quite possible it'll go badly whether he's straight or gay or bi or whatever, just because that's a pretty intimate thing to do with someone who is just a friend. Maybe you could talk to him about your feelings for guys without mentioning that you have a big crush on him? Many, many guys fall for their good guy friends--it's pretty much traditional. The standard advice is that if you are going to reveal your non-straight feelings, it's better to start off by just revealing them in general, rather than jumping right on the "I love you/I want to kiss you" bandwagon. If the guy is straight, his reaction to being hit on by you might bleed into his reaction to you having told him about your feelings for guys. You have to give him some time to process the information before you bombshell him with how much you dream about his lips. *grin*

My biggest fear is finding out what were to happen if I did tell everyone I was gay or bi because I really don't know yet for sure. Something like this would change my life forever and to be honest I really like the way it is now. But theres still this part of me that wants to just do it and find out. Ugh - theres so much bottled up inside me Im glad I can let it out here. It doesnt even matter if I get advice, just knowing I can write whatever Im feeling makes me less bottled up. Alright! This was my story of the day, my concerns and wonders...If you feel so bottled up, I would advise telling the most trustworthy friend you can and just see how that goes. Risk is scary but feeling bottled up is unhealthy.

Let us know how it goes!

[joeyconnick]

So like I said, I talk to the guy I like a lot almost every night. Well one night I told him there were some things he'd never know (like the fact that I really like him and my flirting wasn't joking). Every once and awhile he asks why I can't tell him my big secret and I tell him just because its not the time or that no one will ever know.

Tonight I talk to him again and that subject came up. I think he knows about me in some weird way. Part of me really wants to tell him and just kiss him to let him know, cause then if there's anything there I'll know about myself for sure. But the other part still thinks it'll just ruin everything I have now. How should I go about this?!Like I said, I'd start with just telling him the general stuff. It wouldn't surprise me if he has an inkling of what's going on--it sounds like you mighta been broadcasting. And by that I don't mean being obviously gay, I just mean sending out signals with comments like "there's stuff you'll never know" and obsessing about kissing him. *grin*

[Shawn1]

Jordano,

:smilewave

I too had a girlfriend for four years before I 'realized" the truth and began to become who I am.

When you are feeling like your flirting with others isn't all for play, and that maybe they might even be interested, this may be the beginning of your gardar developing.... or maybe not. :icon_bigg

I'd suggest joining the local pflag group as a beginning, or perhaps your school has a gay-straight group or similar. Listening to others experiences is a big help toward not feeling alone, and gaining insights into ourselves.... Really, it helps.... :icon_bigg

This journey of self discovery is slow, and anything is possible. Please just take a deep breath and keep on communicating. It will become easier as time goes on, and in a while it may even be great!

Good luck :icon_bigg

[Jordano]

Alright - so I talked to the guy I have the crush on again. This time he was very very drunk and so he went on and on about how he can't get a girlfriend or always goes for the taken girls/wrong girls. I told him there are plenty of fish in the sea, and that he'll always have me (as someone to talk to) and he said Im a boy fish, not a girl fish - so there's my conclusion about how Im almost positive he's straight - he said that when he was drunk so either he's straight or REALLY good at keeping his secret (if he has one). Ugh - so many times I just wanna tell him theres something with me thats very attracted to him but when he talks on and on about girls it completely shuts me in. But I do know one thing I've decided...hes the one I tell first. Yes, I should probably tell my girlfriend of four years first but I can find the courage to tell the guy I have a crush on first before my girlfriend.

Ya know, I think I'm ready to just come out and say it and almost accept it within myself: I'm pretty sure Im bisexual. Part of me doesnt want to admit it because of the changes in my life that will come because of it, but the other part just wants to accept me for who I am and I wanna say this IS apart of me. I love my girlfriend to death but really think I wanna try this other side of me - so yes - I AM BISEXUAL! Something inside me just wants to tell or even yell it! Huh..I feel good now...I've openly said it for the first time...Im not so afraid of it/myself anymore...wow...hmm....what next...

Thanks for everything so far...I've shared my story, read others', I dont feel as alone anymore, I feel like a weight's been lifted off my shoulders! I think explaining how I feel when I get the chance on here really helps me find myself so Im really appreciative of it - :icon_bigg Thanks for all the support!

[Jordano]

Hey -

I havent really shared any updated news about this guy I really like...so Thursday is his last day of finals and mine is Tuesday (lucky me I know!) and we were thinking of having a party (with alcohol and everything) but theres another party where the majority of my friends are going, but he and I dont feel as comfortable there so we might just hang out together and drink a little (or a lot in my case most likely).

Im kinda afraid that if I get too much in me, I'll do something or even worse, SAY something, that I'll regret later, (if i remember it). So in reality, I guess I can answer my own problem - dont drink a lot! haha But either way, if we dont drink a lot, would this be the right time to tell him a little more about myself?? I ask this because its never just him and me alone together and the end of the year is approaching very fast, actually that'll probably be the last time I see him until next year, so would telling him be okay, or just scare him away permanently? Or should I just keep my mouth shut?

HELP!

[joeyconnick]

Oh my gosh are you kidding? Fucking screw the other party, dude! You have the chance to be alone with him with alcohol involved?! :eek: Most porn films are way less sexy than that! Heck most SEX is less sexy than that!

You're not going to see him over the summer? That sucks.

But yeah, not overdoing the drinking is probably a really good idea. I mean, you'll probably be nervous but just try to limit it--you don't want to pass out (or him to pass out) before you get to talk about important stuff.

And if what you have to talk about is going to scare him away, it won't matter when you tell him. As long as you keep your cool about it (as in try not to blurt out, "I love you, man!" *grin*) I'm sure it'll go okay. There is no time like the present, especially if you're not going to see him for months afterwards.

[Jordano]

haha, that was hilarious! thanks a bunch joey!

Um, but here's some part of the twisted part - I said before that I tease with him, and already DO say "I love you, man!" and imply sexual inuendos just for fun, or at least he thinks. Plus, I havent come out to anyone yet, not even my girlfriend of 4 years. Im not gay, but Im fairly sure Im bi. So thats a huge complicated part, Im not sure if I should tell him, or even hint to him before I tell my g/f. It frustrates me cause I could predict a miliion outcomes! :tantrum: grrrrr! But I have the whole week to strategize - hehe

Either way thanks again!!!!

[goratrix]

I wouldn't mix coming out with alcohol. Still, if you two'll get a chance of being alone... It would be a great time for telling him. Assuming you DO want to tell him.

If you are not going to see him over the summer, then most likely you'll end up with a LOT of 'what if' in your head, and you won't enjoy your summer very much.

So... i would go for it.

[Jordano]

Thanks a bunch - after reading your message Im gonna go through with it and see where things go, but Im only coming out if its just me and him, if he invites other people, then I'll just have to handle the "what ifs" over the summer. Course just because I wont SEE him over the summer doesnt mean I wont be able to talk to him almost everyday again ;)

[goratrix]

good luck, my thoughts are with you... let us know how it goes.

[hawkeye]

About being drunk, well, this is weird talking about this, but over thanksgiving I was with my dad and my brother in england, and they both like to go to bars. So of course they helped me get into bars (im underage, even in england) and we drank quite a bit. now, as far as i can remember, I was hitting on girls the whole time, but i dont remember any guys that remotely interested me, plus i wasn't even very accepting about being gay at the time. So, as far as i can remember i was very straight acting, but then again, i cant remember most of the night (i think i turned red just typing this) and i dont know what i did for the most part once we left the bar, and we were walking around for a couple of hours. and as a closing point, my dad and brother never asked me about anything, so i dont think i made any allusions to being attracted to guys.
Anyways, with that little anicdote out of the way, if you are both drunk, i think that there is the possibility that he may think that you are joking, and the purpose of telling him could be ruined.
now, this kind of shows that my advise isnt worth much except fuel for thought, but the one time i've told a friend, he was sleeping over, and we had planned on drinking. I'm not sure if i had ever mentioned that in my post telling the story. I had wanted to tell him that night, but i never did. lucky for me, he ended up staying another night. that next night i ended up telling him. after the fact, i think the 2nd night thing turned out best, because it kind of showed that we can have a good time, sober or not, and that it doesnt make me any different that im bi.

Looking back, i think that telling a person after having a good time is the best plan, but i dont want you to just take this story as pure advise, because this is the only way ive told a friend. i guess this is more food for thought.

[joeyconnick]

Do NOT let him invite other people. It's as simple as that. :)

[Jordano]

Do NOT let him invite other people. It's as simple as that. :)


I absolutely LOVE the way you think, the instant I read it I couldnt help but smile and giggle to myself :icon_mrgr I think thats the best advice yet! THANKS A BUNCH JOEY!

This is just a side not - so I was looking through the smilies and I came across that instantly made m laugh - :eusa_danc This is my friends' and my "shot dance" except with the hand/finger motion we shake our asses from side to side - if you can imagine that...either way it made me laugh!

Again - thanks everyone, I'll be keeping ya updated everyday!

[Jordano]

AH! Happy Birthday Joey! I realized it was 12:03 on May 2nd so hey - Happy Birthday - don't know you too well but love your advice!! :eusa_whis Im whistling you the Happy Birthday Song! Hope your day is splendiferous!

[goratrix]

AH! Happy Birthday Joey! I realized it was 12:03 on May 2nd so hey - Happy Birthday - don't know you too well but love your advice!! :eusa_whis Im whistling you the Happy Birthday Song! Hope your day is splendiferous!

totally 100% agree. And happy birthday joey!!! Although I have a cold and I can't whsitle... I am thinking it very loud! And I hope you have a FantastiNazgûl day.

[joeyconnick]

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the good wishes.

[TriBi]

Hey - I missed that - well belated greetz anyway :icon_bigg

[Jordano]

Hello beautiful people! (YES - I am in a REALLY good mood for 2:24 AM)

I'm going to lead in to my best day of the year by just describing how my past couple of days have gone:

Sunday was Calculus Final Study Day - I was literally at the library from 5pm-midnite studying with a friend, doing practice problems up the wazoo! And before that I slept, played video games, and slept :biggrin: very nice!

Monday was Finals Day for me - I woke up at 7:30am after going to bed around 1:30am and waking up every hour (really I did), went back to the library and studied more Calculus with my friend until the final at 9. The final went extremely well - Im pretty sure I got either an A or B but no lower so YAY! :eusa_danc Happy Dance for me! Then after that I revised and edited my 10 page paper due before 3pm and turned in that plus my choir tux around 1pm. So in other words: after 1pm I was done with my first year of college! WOOHOO! Though I am staying here on campus until Friday so I can see my friends all week and help people pack - plus my parents cant help me load my own stuff until Thursday so it works. So my day was great already - everything was going my way.

Then I got invited over to a friends apartment for lasagne and garlic bread - so good and free :icon_mrgr ! Then I took a nice long nap and woke up around 11pm - so I basically didnt wanna go to bed, hence why Im writing this now.

So I went to a friends dorm room and played video games with her until my "crush" came - we'll call him Gunter since thats my nickname for him. So as usual, Gunter called and we talked a bit like we've done almost every nite for the past however long and he said he was gonna put a movie since he doesnt have a final til noon Tuesday. Well I told him I was gonna play video games for a bit.

10 minutes later I called him back and asked him if I could come over - cause I realized itd be the two of us watching a movie ;). So he picked me up even though I couldve walked and decided on what movie to watch. He wanted to watch a scary one and I warned him that I would be clinged to his arm if we did - though no matter what movie it was I would want to! So he had it down to Texas Chainsaw Massacre or The Village. I said Texas Chainsaw Massacre was way to scary and he hadnt seen both so we watched The Village. As he put the movie in was on the couch with a blanket and he started to sit in the chair next to me when I said he should sit with me so I can cling to him at the scary parts. He sat next to me under the blanket. So every once and awhile I would just kinda cuddle up next to him and put my head on his shoulder, he didnt say anything, then at the scariest part (which really wasnt that scary at all) I put my arm around his and held tight with my head on his shoulder cuddled up next to him under the blanket. Yet still he didnt say no or to stop, course he didnt really move so he didnt encourage anything. So for the rest of the movie I was right there holdin on - it felt so good, every once and awhile hed ask a question about the movie, Id look up at him and answer. I was soakin it up so bad!

Then heres the best part: the movie ended and I let go immediately not to make it too awkward. It was after 2am so he asked if I wanted to go back to my dorm - I asked him what hed plan on doing. He said probably go to bed...THEN...he asked me "Well do you wanna stay over here tonight?" AH - in my head Im like - HELL YEAH I DO! But I knew Id probably just sleep on his futon so I joked with him that he said that cause he just wants to sleep with me and we both giggled. But then I said Id like to but he has a final at noon so Id better not. So he took me back to my dorm, smiled (his smile is gorgeous too by the way) and said he'll talk to me tomorrow. I wanted to hug him or something but just smiled back and said see ya tomorrow.

Talk about the best night ever for me! By the time Thursday comes around, alcohol or no Im gonna speak my mind. But thought Id just share my night cause I dont know who would disagree with me when I say this was the best night of the year for me all around! Sorry for writing a book but it was worth typing it all! Please comment on anything...

[joeyconnick]

Dude, that is SO gay... and I mean that in the best way possible. :eusa_danc

[goratrix]

If i say something it will be out of envy... so I'll just say that I hoped you enjoyed it, and I hope it all goes well for you on thursday...

my thoughts are with you.

[joeyconnick]

Oh yeah... I wanted to say I can't believe you didn't spend the night!

Anyway, I'll be :eusa_pray ing for you on Thursday. *grin*

[joeyconnick]

This is just a side not - so I was looking through the smilies and I came across that instantly made m laugh - :eusa_danc This is my friends' and my "shot dance" except with the hand/finger motion we shake our asses from side to side - if you can imagine that...either way it made me laugh!What's a "shot dance?" It sounds promising.

[Jordano]

What's a "shot dance?" It sounds promising.

So I hadnt started drinking since the summer of senior year in high school, and at that time I only did once and didnt really get hammered or anything...so during the schoolyear, first semester actually, my friends and I wanted to have a huge party after all our concerts and stuff and Gunter, my little Gunter, is the only one old enough to buy alcohol for us so he did and we had a huge bash. Well I was already pretty shit-faced but we hadnt even gotten to the shots! So one of my girl friends, whom probably drinks the most of all of us, decided we should start shots of Apple Pucker (side note: I will never drink that again after that night) and after taking each shot, we just started doing this little jig :eusa_danc that and shaking our asses. So after that whenever something really good happens to any of us or just a happy time, we do that dance and say "shot dance time"!! So basically its a dance we made up after taking shots. Oh! and everytime we have a party, we have to officially start it by all taking a shot together and doing our shot dance. Its so much fun!

Um, so I have a question: you said my night was "so gay"...it seemed that way to me too but I still think Gunter doesnt feel that way about me, that he's just letting me do that. SO it really makes me hesitant on telling him..do you think because he let me cuddle so much with him that he might like me or is just playing me as a friend?

[joeyconnick]

So after that whenever something really good happens to any of us or just a happy time, we do that dance and say "shot dance time"!! So basically its a dance we made up after taking shots. Oh! and everytime we have a party, we have to officially start it by all taking a shot together and doing our shot dance. Its so much fun!That's kinda what I was expecting and it's really cute.

Um, so I have a question: you said my night was "so gay"...it seemed that way to me too but I still think Gunter doesnt feel that way about me, that he's just letting me do that. SO it really makes me hesitant on telling him..do you think because he let me cuddle so much with him that he might like me or is just playing me as a friend?[Okay, first off I have to say that "Gunter" is about the most ugly nickname ever! :p I hope he's a lot cuter than his nickname suggests.]

Well in the past I would have said, "No way is that guy straight" because in my experience, straight guys wouldn't go for that kind of situation. However, over the years I have heard stories that make my eyes widen about what gay guys get up to with their straight guy friends and by "up to" I don't mean sexual stuff, I mean affectionate stuff that I just have trouble believing straight guys would be comfortable doing with other guys.

So it's quite possible he's letting you cuddle with him to be nice. I think, without having met the guy, it's also possible that he's into you. However, you have all the experience with this guy so I'm inclined to trust your opinion over mine. Whatever the case, though, I think it's worth at least telling him about your attraction to (non-specific *grin*) guys because it sure seems like you're really close. (Plus I get the nagging feeling that if you don't tell him soon you're going to club him over the head, tie him up, and kidnap him. :lol: )

So how do you think he'll react, from what you know of him? My guess is he won't freak out given that he seems okay with the cuddly stuff. However it goes, remember that how he reacts is a reflection on him and what's going on with him, not you.

[Jordano]

Joey - you have the best advice and I just adore reading your replies so thank you so much for everything!

Alright, I'll start with the nickname: Gunter. So on choir tour we were all guessing each others' middle names and he said his started with a "G". We were all guessing normal names that start with G and then someone chimes in "GUNTER" so it just kinda stuck. Then someone thought it was "Gustaf" so I (of course I thought of this) suggested that his porn name be Gunter Gustaf so basically Im the only one that calls him Gunter because its "sexual" so whenever my group of friends hits on each other we call him Gunter, but as for me I call him it all the time (haha you know why but if only he knew :lol: )

Then as for the cuddling thing, I kinda have to agree with you on both sides: he could have feelings for me, but most likely he's just being nice to me and is probably use to me doing stuff like that in the first place.

The thing about clubbing, draggin, and kidnapping him - I would do it in a heart beat! You hit the nail on the head! Ugh - I just really wanna tell him but then stuff like what happened today discourages me so much.

We were at a choir end of the year party when people were making fun of Gunter because he tries so hard to get girls to notice him that he seems kinda desperate. And its rumored from many people that these two girls really like him and that he may be interested in one of them. A couple of specific friends say they both like each other so they should go out already! So then instantly Im like "hes straight, get over it"!

But - there have been girls that have liked him before and he's shown no interest, and always seems to get "crushes" on girls that are already taken, so in other words: hes been single all year and hasnt even really gone on a date. Then he says stuff to me like "youre my only best guy friend" and all his other friends are girls, so again, I get a hint that could he be interested?! And whenever our eyes meet we just smile hugely at each other - its just automatic.

But assuming hes straight, because I really think he is, I can basically guess everything hes gonna say when I tell him I think Im bi and have had a huge thing for him all along, that Im not joking. First he's probably gonna say that he had a feeling I actually liked him or he'll say he did know just because of the way I lay things thick on him. (which reminds me, when he knows someones hinting and doesnt choose to accept it, he ignores it so that could well possibly be in my case - he did that to a girl, just ignored the hints) Second though he's gonna ask about my girlfriend and whether I've told her or how I cant like him because Im with her. And as I've said, I truly do love her, but want to find out his reaction before I can talk to her...and I need to find the courage to tell him before I can tell her. Then most likely he'll say that this is weird, that he really doesnt like me that way, that he was just joking around with me like I was to him, it meant nothing, and that it just cant happen cause he really likes girls. I cant literally picture how this is gonna turn out and it scares me, discourages me, and just wont work. I think he'll still say we can be friends, cause we are really close like that but I cant act like I have been (OBVIOUSLY) so then itd just be kinda awkward for us but I would have the summer to blow it off and kinda start fresh.

Either way, like I said, if thursday is just us, I'll do it. But so far my best guy friend whom Im rooming with next year wants to come to our thing instead of his girlfriends thing, so how do I tell him that I want it to be just me and Gunter without being rude or obvious????? And if he does come so its the three of us, what should I do?

Gimme comments on everything - I need all the advice I can get - and so far its really helped - from everyone! thanks!

[Jordano]

So I just heard the worst news ever - a girl that liked Gunter before but found out it just wouldnt work out with him (he told her that) is probably going to be at our "party" so that completely blows any chance of anything! So in that case I dont really know if I should just pull him to the side and tell him some other time before I leave or just not at all....DAMN HER! Though I had a big feeling other people would be invited anyway... :frown:

[joeyconnick]

Hey... glad to be of service.

As for the recent development, just tell him you want to skip out on everyone else and just hang out the two of you alone. If you're his self-professed "best guy friend" then it shouldn't be such a big deal. And besides, ditching people is fun to do with people you're close to. :p

Carpe Gunter. (Seize the Gunter! :lol: )

If you want alone time with him, you're going to have to make it happen. Don't just sit there waiting for it to maybe fall into place if everyone happens to not show up. Meet up with him beforehand and drive/take him somewhere away from where the other people are gonna be. Tell him you have an errand to run. Tell him you need his help to rescue a cat up a tree. Throw away his cellphone. All that good sneaky stuff. Because if you wanna :kiss: Gunter, you gotta be :eusa_whis (smooth).

Now go brainstorm!

[Jordano]

Yet again you come up with great advice and make me laugh over and over again - thanks! :icon_mrgr

[Jordano]

Alright - pull your pants up and get a cup of coffee ready cause this is gonna be one hell-of-a-long post.

Lets start off by saying a huge party that was suppose to happen tomorrow happened tonite (not Gunters, thats still tomorrow) and so I decided one of my best college buddies and I would go, he wanted to drink so I was the designated driver. Well I basically was having no fun cause I wanted to drink but didnt - then Gunter came in - instantly I lit up. He drove so he wasnt gonna drink so he decided shortly after arriving that he would leave and study for a final. I asked him if I could come along just to get away and then he could drop me off later. PERFECT TIMING huh?! Just wait...

So we get to his house and immediately I follow him to his room...yay for me, Im gonna do it...well I instantly plopped on his bed and he sat right beside me at his computer desk studying. I shouldve right there and then told him, plus he kept asking me what my big secret was cause I sometimes hint I have a huge secret that no one will ever know about. I lied and said its really nothing I just like keeping him curious and guessing - I know Im a scaredycat! So then he forgets his phone was in his car so he gets and comes back while I just lay on his bed wrapped up in one of his blankets. Well he says he missed two calls, one from this girl that likes him and he sorta likes too. So then he blabs on and on about how this girl is leaving and tonite is the last time he'll get to see her - in my mind Im kicking myself cause the moment is completely gone for me, its all about her now. So I just say - go for it, just go, you can drop me off. He talks nonstop on how he likes this girl somedays and doesnt others...I was just pissed off completely at him for going on and on about this dumb girl I dont even know, and at myself for ruining the whole moment. So as he drops me off I scream at him pissed off like: "I do have a huge secret that I want to tell but just cant, I just cant!" And he asks why I cant and I just storm into the house. He calls me 3 minutes later asking why I did that, and I was still mad so I just said I cant tell him and hung up - yeah what an asshole I was!

Well, that was the end of my Gunter for the night...heres the good stuff. So my friend was completely drunk and his almost girlfriend (they went out, then broke up cause she still had feelings for her ex but that didnt work out so now they're basically friends with benefits) and so they were just talking so I called over my "talking buddy" I tell her stuff she tells me stuff. When she arrived my friend and his almost girlfriend are upstairs fighting and crying so I pull Amanda off to the side and tell her I really have to tell her something.

I dont know what came over me, just all the emotions together I guess but I said this is really hard for me to say and that shes the first person Im telling, but that I think Im bisexual. She kinda knew it all along when I made little hints to her about stuff. Then I told her I really liked Gunter - which by the way she DOESNT really llike Gunter so thats what made this even harder. Then we talked about how she kinda thinks Gunters the same as me and how I just have this attraction to men and women and then how theres this guy I was in all state band with that I had an attraction to as well and found out he was in the same boat I was, bisexual but quiet about it, but the crazy thing was that I had a feeling he was - so that was cool cause Im gonna try to talk to him...

But I finally told someone my secret - I explained how big a relief this was and how I found out kinda - Ive been made fun of my whole life about acting gay - being in all the music, small build, femmy acting, high pitched voice, and so I just couldnt handle it anymore, I had to tell someone and with her - granted she has a big mouth - but I could tell her anything - she felt really special I told her and now we're even closer which makes me happy. I felt so relieved I just had to keep going about everything on my mind so I told her how much help you guys give me and how this is one of the best things that happened - this forum. And then I just rambled outside in the cold how I felt about guys and girls and how Im scared to tell my girlfriend and she said the time would come, just not now. It was amazing - I feel so good!!

Then Amanda and I got my two drunk friends out of the fight and took my friend back to his dorm. Ugh - but tomorrow I really wanna tell Gunter, but his and my little thing turned into a huge party with everyone so Im not quite sure what or when Im gonna do it. But I'll keep you posted - YAY I FEEL GOOD! IM OUT TO SOMEONE WHO I CAN ALWAYS TALK TO! YAAAAAAAY!! :icon_mrgr Again - thanks for everything SO much - youve all changed my life ! and for the better - I dont feel as bottled up!

Keep ya posted!

[Paul_UK]

Congratulations Jordano - that's a big step you've taken today. :eusa_danc :eusa_clap

Let's not dwell on Gunter, because I'd only say exactly what you're expecting us to say.... :eusa_doh:

[joeyconnick]

Alright - pull your pants up and get a cup of coffee ready cause this is gonna be one hell-of-a-long post.Are you suggesting my pants are down? This is a SUPPORT site, Jordan, not a porn one. :p

So we get to his house and immediately I follow him to his room...yay for me, Im gonna do it...well I instantly plopped on his bed and he sat right beside me at his computer desk studying. I shouldve right there and then told him, plus he kept asking me what my big secret was cause I sometimes hint I have a huge secret that no one will ever know about. I lied and said its really nothing I just like keeping him curious and guessing - I know Im a scaredycat! So then he forgets his phone was in his car so he gets and comes back while I just lay on his bed wrapped up in one of his blankets. Well he says he missed two calls, one from this girl that likes him and he sorta likes too. So then he blabs on and on about how this girl is leaving and tonite is the last time he'll get to see her - in my mind Im kicking myself cause the moment is completely gone for me, its all about her now. So I just say - go for it, just go, you can drop me off. He talks nonstop on how he likes this girl somedays and doesnt others...I was just pissed off completely at him for going on and on about this dumb girl I dont even know, and at myself for ruining the whole moment. So as he drops me off I scream at him pissed off like: "I do have a huge secret that I want to tell but just cant, I just cant!" And he asks why I cant and I just storm into the house. He calls me 3 minutes later asking why I did that, and I was still mad so I just said I cant tell him and hung up - yeah what an asshole I was!Hmmn... uhm... probably not the best approach. I don't know about you but people who go on and on about how they know something I don't and then won't tell me about it tend to get on my nerves. You need to either tell him or just let it go. You'll spoil your friendship with him otherwise--he's pissing you off, sure, but he has NO idea that he is... don't beat up on poor widdle horribly-nicknamed Gunter! :icon_sad:

However, you get an A+ for gay-style melodrama! :king: <--this icon really should be named "queen" :lol:

I dont know what came over me, just all the emotions together I guess but I said this is really hard for me to say and that shes the first person Im telling, but that I think Im bisexual. She kinda knew it all along when I made little hints to her about stuff. Then I told her I really liked Gunter - which by the way she DOESNT really llike Gunter so thats what made this even harder. Then we talked about how she kinda thinks Gunters the same as me and how I just have this attraction to men and women and then how theres this guy I was in all state band with that I had an attraction to as well and found out he was in the same boat I was, bisexual but quiet about it, but the crazy thing was that I had a feeling he was - so that was cool cause Im gonna try to talk to him...Wow, that's great! That part of the evening went a lot better, huh?

Sorry to hear you've been teased all your life about the gay thing. I can never figure out why I wasn't--I was by no means the most butch guy around--but I got it full-force not for being gay but for being a nerd. Either way, it really sucks and people can be true assholes.

Like I said, kidnap Gunter and just tell him--forget about the other people. We're rooting for you!

[hawkeye]

I can never figure out why I wasn't--I was by no means the most butch guy around--but I got it full-force not for being gay but for being a nerd.

lol, I have been teased for being nerdy. I have been getting people back lately though. It pays to be the nerd when you can make cool gadgets, like things to shoot cds around the halls. This summer I'm working on a water cannon, and people are getting pretty freaked out. (dont worry, it's legal, and i'll keep it safe)

Anyways, about gunter, it seems like you do need to tell him before you get too caught up in your own emotions with him. The worst thing that could happen is that you end up hating him with a passion for a long time, and it seems like it is already moving in that direction.

[Jordano]

Alright - Im going to the party - not quite sure whats going to happen! But I just hope Im not too drunk to not type cause itll be a long one Im sure! Thanks again for everything - I'll take all your advice! AH WISH ME LUCK!

[goratrix]

lol, I have been teased for being nerdy. I have been getting people back lately though. It pays to be the nerd when you can make cool gadgets, like things to shoot cds around the halls. This summer I'm working on a water cannon, and people are getting pretty freaked out. (dont worry, it's legal, and i'll keep it safe)

Anyways, about gunter, it seems like you do need to tell him before you get too caught up in your own emotions with him. The worst thing that could happen is that you end up hating him with a passion for a long time, and it seems like it is already moving in that direction.
I actually take pride in bein a nerd... Although I am quiet big, and I am a purple belt in Taekwondo... so people just don't mess with me. I never even had to rise my voice, they are always intimidated by me.

Not the best way to meet people, but they leave me alone... Still, it's fun to tease people by acting superior... like:

ok, now, you know 2 + 2 = 4. So, you might say that 4 - 2 = 2. Translate that into trigonometric functions and you'll get an insight in my conversation. I actually once demonstrated that 1 + 1 = 2. It was a lot of fun to watch at their faces as I went on and on with trig. functions and then just said: 'one plus one equals two'. It was priceless!!!

[goratrix]

BTW, my thoughts are with you Jordan. I hope it all goes well.

[Jordano]

Hey peops -

Well tonight sucked more than ever! I hardly drank, so what I know, and everything that could go wrong did...ugh it makes me cry! Alright...heres how it started:

So the party was suppose to be at Gunters like it was before - it was gonna be just like the first time I really drank - very fun. Well I get there and some people arent there (oh it turned from me and Gunter to everyone basically) and then I found out that we werent having the party here, we were gonna have it 5 miles out of town at some guys apartment that Gunter knows and two of his girl friends and a couple guys were gonna be there: okay that just blows cause I dont know these people. Well two people that we were waiting for at Gunters house didnt want to go out of town at all so they didnt come and this is my last night here so I wanted everyone to be there...nope, not gonna happen.

So we went started driving out of town and oh shit - we get pulled over. Gunter was speeding, the alcohol was under my legs - Im definitely a minor - but it was okay - he just got a warning - but still it really didnt make anything better.

At this point it just didnt seem worth it, and so people were pissed at others (me at Gunter cause he was being an ass) but we went anyway. Okay - you need to know that Gunter was just being a jerk in general - something was bugging him or pissing him off, actually I think it was the people that didnt wanna go outta town. But that didnt help and I knew there wasnt a chance in hell Id be talking to him at all tonite.

Well we get to the place and stick in a movie, drink a little and ate popcorn. Gunter completely drank like a fish - he was completely shit-faced and being an asshole to everyone. I just wanted to leave so afterwards two friends who didnt drink drove me back and as we were leaving, some people were urging us to stay and Gunter was like " glad you had a bad time - bye " and so in the cheerfullest voice I could possibly make I said - "good bye!"

Also a thing that really pissed me off was that all these stupid girls kept calling Gunter and when they do he completely ignores everyone else around him and centers his attention to them. There was also this stupid quiet girl that just HAD to sit next to Gunter during the movie but yet didnt comment on anything yet alone say anything so she was just annoying. She made no effort to talk to us. So then I called Amanda and I just talked and talked with her about everything. She helps a lot just by listening.

But I realized I left my drinking sunglasses and hat in Gunters car so I have to see him tomorrow, and at this point in time, I dont care the consequences, Im telling him everything because I want to end on a good note (so obviously Ill apologize and talk about tonite) and not live the summer wondering what if. So Im just gonna do this the best I can and come out with everything when I see him tomorrow. So yet again I will keep you posted!

[nisomer]

That's too bad it didn't go well for you. Hopefully it will be better tonight when you see him. Best of luck! My thoughts are with you! :)

[goratrix]

A last word of advice, don't come out to him out of anger or resent. It will make it a bad experience for you, and it should be a good one. It's releasing your inner self, your true being to the world, and letting him know you a little better.

[Jordano]

Oh - I didnt do this out of resent or anger, I made sure of that, thanks for the advice, but I did do it when I felt it was right:

Alright - so last nite sucked as I explained that I had to get my sunglasses and visor from Gunter so I went over there to get them and that led to a series of events...here we go...

So I went over there and he was packing, I asked where my stuff was so he went and got it for me. Then he said he needed another tote so I suggested I go to Walmart with him to get one. We went there and talked about the night before and what bugged both of us, just to mend everything so we were cool before I told him. Then I suggested we go out somewhere to eat and he just looks at me like he knows whats gonna happen next. So we end up going to Subway (how romantic I know) and guess who we run into: our choir director. HE WILL NEVER SHUT UP! So right there and then I was like: well there goes those plans down the tube :evil: !! So two hours later I reply to all the missed calls he started driving back to campus...

While on the phone I told him to take a drive with me. So it took me forever to get the point, I just kept beating around the bushes. My heart was pounding so hard and he just kept saying, so... and at one point he asked what my big secret was, mocking me the whole time so I reassured him that it's huge, and hard to say. I would slowly but surely add stuff like I've been reflecting and doing some self discovery. This completely threw him off because he thought it was something about him like a criticism or something. It became the longest drive ever. I repeated that my heart was pounding so hard and he started talking about how its like when you really like a girl and want to tell them but your hearts pounding so hard you cant hear anything and I was like - whoa, this is creepy, does he know? Well, I finally started to tell stuff about self discovery and then I just said - I couldnt look at him the whole time but I said " I really really really like you" He asked if as more than a friend and I was just sick of it so I said "Gunter, I think Im bisexual and I really really like you, okay?!" I felt so stupid and embarrassed! He took it really well, we talked about how he kinda knew, but wasnt sure, and then the worst part of all, he told me he really really likes girls, and thats it. He said he wasnt bisexual at all, let alone gay. My heart completely sunk, I felt 2 inches tall, and was utterly humiliated. He started explaining that he kinda thought something but was just waiting for me to tell him and hes in the same boat I am how people think hes gay all the time but how his friends tell him theres no way he is because he likes girls so much. I then said that Im mad at him because he led me on so incredibly badly. He didnt once stop me from hitting on him and hit on me too, completely gay like and I told him I was sure he was at least bi. He felt really bad about that...

UGH - I felt so stupid and embarrassed, I told him and he said nothing would change, but I told him i was afraid he would look at me and think of me differently, how everythings changed, and I just felt like crying. I had to go so I said to go back. He dropped me off, I couldnt even look at him and said bye and left.

Instantly I called Amanda and told her I had to see her to talk to her. She came over and we talked and talked. She agreed completely with me on how he led me on and that I shouldnt feel stupid. It helped a little..

So I endeavored for home shortly after. I had to talk to Amanda more so I called her again and she didnt pick. Then I had to call Gunter and apologize for my abrupt leaving because I wasnt gonna see him all summer so it was kinda a sucky way to say goodbye. He didnt pick up so I left him a voicemail. Shortly after Gunter called me and said he JUST got done talking to Amanda - so I was like great they're talking about me together now the only two people who know...Gunter said at least this was a good way for him and Amanda to repair their friendship cause theyd been hating each other too and I was like glad my fucked up life benefitted you at least - he said he didnt mean it that way and I knew.

I said I really didnt wanna talk and said maybe I'll talk to him later. Then I called Amanda and talked to her about everything...shes so comforting. Then I hung up and listened to music. On my burned cds a whole bunch of slow songs played and I just started balling, I just couldnt stop no matter what so I called Amanda and of course she reassured me but didnt know what to say so I left. Honestly - Ive never felt so hurt in my life, it still hurts so incredibly bad, I had another fit 20 minutes later and called her again but this was short cause I just said I was sorry for all the burden I gave her, she said it was okay. But I still could not stop crying. Last time I felt this strong about someone was with my girlfriend and like her I was expecting him to say he likes me too but didnt, I got completely rejected on my face and I hadnt felt like that in a while...I finally stopped crying but still ache, I could cry now if I wasnt with my parents...I dont want them wondering anything.

Either way later tonite Amanda called me to see if I was alright, Im not cause it hurts, I cant get over it so I told her I dont wanna talk to him for awhile or think about him or talk about it because I just need to get over this, though this is gonna be the hardest thing ever! I didnt realize how much I really liked him, and I want him to know, I might send him an email just saying I wont be in touch for awhile and that I dont hate him at all, I hope we can be friends but ya know what - its gonna be so hard cause Im gonna feel like hes gonna treat me differently, and it just sucks, i hate this!

So thats it for today - worst fricken day of my life - part of me regrets it and I told Gunter that and how I just want him to forget it happened but then Im glad I know I guess...and that he knows so he wont fricken lead me on. He feels bad and should but I just dont think I'll ever get over him. It just sucks! Im gonna go cry now...

[hawkeye]

geeze man, sorry it didnt go well for you. take it easy. There's always more fish in the sea.

[joeyconnick]

Oh geez, Jordan... that sounds really rough. I think you're probably just really overwhelmed that you covered so many bases at once, like telling another person you're bi and that you liked him and then getting rejected. I mean, it totally makes sense that you'd feel bad about it all, especially when it was so rushed and intense.

The email to him sounds like a good idea. It sounds pretty mature.

Write more when you feel like it!

[Jordano]

I thought the email would be appropriate too...

I simply explained how bad I felt and how much I cried, but not because I was mad at him, but because I just never felt this strong about a person since my girlfriend, and with her she felt the same way I did so that his rejection was pretty unexpected and hurt A LOT! I said I needed time to reflect so I probably wouldnt call him for awhile, until I see him next Saturday for a friend's bday party. It was very informative, no anger or anything...

Well, last night I caved and went completely against my word, I just had to talk to him. So I did call him, mainly because Im so used to talking every night with him about a lot of things and I just needed to hear his voice again - which then I realized wont help me get over him so who knows...

He hasnt replied to the email and didnt answer his phone so did I scare him off? Do you think he's mad at me? Either way I left him a voicemail just to say I wanted to talk...

Its been so hard not being around all my college friends, and especially Gunter, I really miss him but not being with him will probably help me the most to get over my crush...huge crush! Oh well - Im getting better I spose - slowly but surely.

[Jordano]

Hey, felt I needed to update...

Like I said, I left Gunter an email and then called him and left him a voicemail, completely contradicting my email. Well, he called me tonite, and actually, before I was gonna call him. We had a very long talk about the email and voicemail, and he said he wouldve replied earlier to both the email and voicemail but has been so busy moving back in and whatnot he couldnt so I was happy that was the case, and not that he was mad at me or something.

Then we started talking about our little (yeah right, try huge) situation and how Im basically scared Im going to get treated differently and put in a new class of people. He reassured me that he wont treat me differently but that its going to be hard not to put me under his "gay friends who like me" class because he's led other gay friends of his in believing he was too, so Im not the first. And he told me a couple times he has a handful of gay friends and that hes use to this but I told him straight that I dont want him to consider me as one of them. I just want things to be how they were, us being really good best friends who can tell each other everything, and by now he should know I mean tell each other everything! haha

He explained again how he feels bad for leading me on and I explained how he just never stopped me from doing anything, ever. He said he just thought it was me teasing him again and that things did feel awkward but he just let it go - so at least I fully understand that. I just again explained how I was just so sure things would be how I pictured them and not blow up in my face, but its okay, Im getting over it.

We both agreed that we dont want things to be weird between us and hope that when we see each other it wont be either. I know I still want him so incredibly bad but just have to accept hes completley straight and will forever be. Eventually I'll just get over him but it still really hurts that I cant get what I want - HIM!

We also talked about how he wanted to ask me before I told him and how we've acted before and how Im not sure about my feelings, though I am completely physically attracted to him maybe Im just confusing my best friend feelings for something more, ya know. Im accepting that Im bi but that maybe I read my feelings for him a little too deep?

Either way Im still gonna call him every night I can and just talk, eventually it will be back to normal, though Im still afraid hes gonna look at me and treat me differently, but thats kinda inevitable...But Im feeling a ton better about and think we'll continue to have a strong FRIENDLY relationship. We both care about each other strongly, just not quite the same...

[joeyconnick]

Well all that sounds promising, except him having a history of being in situations like this. One would think he would have learned to pick them out by now and say something before they progressed quite so much.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to say he actively led you on. I mean, if you had actually explicitly said you were into him and then everything happened as it did, yeah, sure. But as far as he knew, you were just a touchy-feely friend and I guess he was comfortable with that. If he's guilty of something, it sounds like being clueless, not malicious. Not that being clueless is completely excusable but it's a lot better than actively trying to deceive someone.

As for your feelings for him and it being physical attraction only, well, if you ball your eyes out because you were just horny for them and they said no, you're a lot more emotional than most of the people I've met and that's saying something. ;) If it were just physical attraction, you would be pissed off, not heartbroken and hurt. I mean, rejection sucks no matter how you slice it but rejection by someone you don't really care about doesn't often (if ever) cause huge emotional upheaval.

My best advice at this point is focus more on how you feel, not what he did or didn't do. You can't change what's already happened between you--you can only take a crack at coping with your feelings.

[TriBi]

I think Joey said it all pretty well.

The only thing I would try to add is, if you want to keep the guy as a friend, try not to crowd him. I know that might not be easy, given the emotions you describe, but if you make it too obvious you still have deep feelings for him you are likely to prejudice the friendship that remains...just because it may make him feel uncomfortable.

No matter how hard it may be, try to give him a little space, accept the fact that your fantasy is highly unlikely to ever be fulfilled and just enjoy his frioendship for what it is - a friendship.

[Jordano]

Thanks for everything again - you're right, I dont just like him physically, but I do know before I was really into him he was like a best friend to me, so thats why I said maybe I was confusing my feelings. But you're right, its more than just physical, I guess I was just kinda in denial or something. And I guess he was just comfortable, and thought it was just me being me when I would kinda hit on him so you're right there too.

I really do need to sort out my emotions cause I've just been flooded lately with everything! Oh, and we talked a lot about the leading me on thing and I admit I was taking it too seriously and he doenst feel guilty or anything like but said if he were in my position itd look like he was too. But Im okay with that now after talking about it and am not mad at him or anything for that. It was just something I felt at the time. And Im done focusing on what he did or didnt do cause we talked about that too, Ive basically accepted that its done and I cant change it.

One thing I never realized though is that I am crowding him, so thanks for pointing that out. As a friend, he said he really misses me like I told him, but calling him every night is overboard I'll admit, and I'll see him this weekend so its not even necessary. Guess Im just still a little obsessed - whoops! So in order for our friendship to stay at connected and solid as it is I'll give him his space - thats probably the best advice I couldve gotten right now, thanks! Because I DO want us to have a friendship and nothing more, eventually.

[nisomer]

I also think that in order for you guys to fully have the best friendship you could have, you would've had to tell him about this sometime. Better earlier than later, when your emotions may have gotten deeper if you hadn't told him.

[joeyconnick]

I wanted to find some way of working in this anecdote and it turns out it follows nicely from what TriBi's said about how you treat your friend from now on.

Without going into the whole sordid story, which would probably take me 2 hours or more to write up, there is this guy from my past who I still have really strong feelings for. Owing to our complicated and messy history, it had gotten to the point where, although I was always interested in spending time with him when we were in the same city (he moved away to grad school), whenever we did spend time together, there was always this undercurrent of unpleasantness where everything was like walking on broken glass because no matter what we talked about, the pain between us would often come jumping out.

The fact of the matter is that I'm still in love with him, and probably a part of me always will be because of the circumstances of our relationship. Because of that, he is this huge figure in my life. Sadly, the converse is not true: I think for him, I'm simply a relatively minor figure from when he first started dating. I think he thinks fondly of me but has definitely moved on.

Anyway... I could never be in his presence without making little digs at him. I'm sure you know the kind, the kind of comments you can only make if you have a long, complicated, painful history with someone and you know how to push each other's buttons. And it was like I couldn't help myself--whenever we got together, I would invariably say small but nasty things that referenced our history together.

Well, my therapist (hey c'mon, you don't think I come up with all this stuff on my own, do you? :) ) asked me one day when I was talking about the next time I was going to meet up with this guy, "How do you think he feels when you say this stuff? Do you think he enjoys spending time with you when this happens? Do you think he gets the impression you love him when you say hurtful things?"

The answer was, "Probably pretty unhappy and no, probably not."

"So how would you treat someone if you wanted them to know that you loved them?"

Well... there you go. It was as painfully simple as that. And trust me, there are plenty of times in the past where this guy had hurt or disappointed me but at the end of the day, if I wanted to actually enjoy having him in my life, I needed to think about how the way I was acting was coming across. And I never had, not in stark terms like that. I was too caught up in my own longstanding pain to see what was very clear: that I was letting my unresolved feelings poison my present and that if I wanted to have any kind of continued relationship with this guy, I needed to live in the now, not the then.

And it wasn't like there was some big mysterious way I found of "letting go..." it was more that I just considered what was going on in the present and what I wanted to happen in the future.

So hopefully all that is useful to people... sometimes all it takes is people asking seemingly obvious questions.

[Jordano]

Wow - what a history indeed, thanks for sharing your story a lot - it really helped just seeing how other situations can go. I never realized things that way: seeing it through obvious questions. I think if I ask questions like that it will really make me see the whole picture, inside and out, that way I can make things the least awkward. Thanks again so much - I'll keep you posted on recent events...

[goratrix]

"So how would you treat someone if you wanted them to know that you loved them?"

Ok, I will have to think about this deeply. Still, Erich Fromm describes that loving something is knowing it. And I feel that when someone makes a joke about something in my life that not everybody knows, even hurtful, is an expression of how much they know me, how much they love me. And It works the same for me. With my closest friends we are constantly insulting each other, calling each other names and doing stuff like that.

And with AC... oh well... I constantly tease him about everything... and he gets his revenge during classes...

I don't mean to contradict you, and I can't know your situation, for I've never been through it. Still, I think that humor is just another way of saying things, and letting the stress out is usually good for a friendship. On the other hand, when there is a history like the one you described (which I would love to read in full version btw) there are other things to consider, and you must make sure that you are not exagerating with the comments...

Anyway, I think that giving him a little space could be good, for it is hard on him as well. And if he should introduce you to some of his gay friends... perhaps you could find someone extremely interesting...

Oh, well... I'm not going to tell you that getting over him is going to be easy, specially if you remain friends... because trust me... it won't. Although at some point you will have to decide what's best for you, and make sure you don't remain his friend just because deep down you are hoping for something to happen... because it most likely won't, and you'll get hang up and will miss many chances...

[Jordano]

So I havent talked to him in two days and its seemed much longer than that - I dont know if its because Im so used to just talking about stuff everynight or if its because Im madly in love with him still. I have thought about it hard and I think things wont be as weird as I think they are, I keep telling myself it wont work, we're just best friends, nothing more, and I seem to accept it, but I still have the urge to call and talk but as said before I definitely dont wanna crowd/suffocate him. Im gonna see him Saturday for sure so that should be good enough, yet I just wanna talk forever with him. Grrrrrr, should I call him tomorrow or just wait til Saturday to see him? And will I ever get over him?!

[goratrix]

If you take a read to some of my posts you'll see that I am in a similar situation. Although I didn't tell the guy, I am still not over him... and for the looks of things, I will never be. I am just trying to be a good freind, and to meet someone else. I know it can be hard, and yes, the 'possible scenarios' I run in my head every single minute of my life are quiet a few...

Still, it get easyer with time (not much, but a little)... and eventually (hopefully) you will find someone else.

[joeyconnick]

So I havent talked to him in two days and its seemed much longer than that - I dont know if its because Im so used to just talking about stuff everynight or if its because Im madly in love with him still. I have thought about it hard and I think things wont be as weird as I think they are, I keep telling myself it wont work, we're just best friends, nothing more, and I seem to accept it, but I still have the urge to call and talk but as said before I definitely dont wanna crowd/suffocate him. Im gonna see him Saturday for sure so that should be good enough, yet I just wanna talk forever with him. Grrrrrr, should I call him tomorrow or just wait til Saturday to see him? And will I ever get over him?!You will if you let yourself. Just give yourself some time and space.

You might want to ask his opinion about how often he wants to talk. Lots of people neglect to discuss that kind of thing.

[joeyconnick]

Ok, I will have to think about this deeply. Still, Erich Fromm describes that loving something is knowing it. And I feel that when someone makes a joke about something in my life that not everybody knows, even hurtful, is an expression of how much they know me, how much they love me. And It works the same for me. With my closest friends we are constantly insulting each other, calling each other names and doing stuff like that.

And with AC... oh well... I constantly tease him about everything... and he gets his revenge during classes...Oh, this was not what I call teasing. It was a lot less fun than that.

I don't mean to contradict you, and I can't know your situation, for I've never been through it. Still, I think that humor is just another way of saying things, and letting the stress out is usually good for a friendship. On the other hand, when there is a history like the one you described (which I would love to read in full version btw) there are other things to consider, and you must make sure that you are not exagerating with the comments...Yeah, it really wasn't very humourous. I'm all for self-deprecation among friends but this was definitely not light interaction.

[Jordano]

Hey everyone -

Just thought I would leave an update: so last Saturday the usual college gang got back together for a birthday party and things were completely fine with me and Gunter. The only weird thing is I cant joke as much with him about flirting because he knows its kinda for real, but my other friends dont suspect a thing. And when I make comments and he retaliates the opposite, I know he's serious and not just joking like before. But thats okay cause he still calls me to talk about his girl problems and its funny because a lot the situations hes in I can compare to me and him: like how he feels is the same way I felt about him and hes feeling what I felt so its really cool to relate.

Either way things are basically back to normal with us so YAY! We still talk about the whole situation every once and awhile, which can be nice at times, not at others, but we're still best friends, and nothing more! haha

Thanks again for ALL the advice, I couldnt have done any of this without your guys' encouragement and advice. Happy Dance for you all!!! (!) :eusa_danc

[joeyconnick]

Hey, that's great to hear (except for the part about him not being hot for you). *grin*

[goratrix]

Hey, I'm glad it all worked out fine for you... :-)

[Jordano]

So like I said, things are great with Gunter and me but it'll still be awhile for me to be completely over him, but something cool happened.

So awhile ago when talking to Amanda about recently coming out and whatnot she told me something very useful - someone else is in my position. Amandas friend's friend (hope that makes sense) is also bisexual but hasnt really come out, only to Amandas friend as far as I know. Amanda secretly found out and told me to make me feel better and it did just knowing that someone I know is like me.

The funny thing is is that this guy has been at All State Band with me two years in a row and Honors Choir two years in a row and we really hit it off as friends, and I honestly thought I was attracted to him and that he was maybe interested too. But since then we've grown apart and I havent even talked to him for a year, until now.

I discovered he was on my MSN list so Im starting to talk to him and if I get close enough, maybe something could happen??? Though im definitely not getting my hopes up of course - but at least I know theres hope! Thisll be fun!!!

[joeyconnick]

Hey that sounds totally fun! Even if it doesn't go anywhere, sometimes just the thought that it might is fulfilling.

(What is it with choir boys, anyway? :lol: )

[Jordano]

(What is it with choir boys, anyway? :lol: )


All I have to say is that we know how to have fun! But either way care to elaborate on that statement??

[joeyconnick]

All I meant is that you all seem to be... happy. :lol:

[Jordano]

All I meant is that you all seem to be... happy. :lol:

Very true, very true - giddy is a better word for that I think. And I noticed that because of that its a big stereotype that choir boys are gay - not that I'm saying it's not true, it's just that I guess musically talented kids are pointed out to being gay way before an athletic person for several reasons obviously.

Either way I am proud to say I'm a giddy little choir boy who is bisexual and hope to have a little fun next year with another little choir boy, not as happy as me, but bisexual as well so we'll just see what happens... :icon_smil

Alright now - Happy Choir Boy Dance! (!) :eusa_danc

[goratrix]

Hmmm *thinks about joining the choir*

ohh, If only I could sing... oh, who am I kidding, i CAN sing... yeah!! almost as well as a wookie with asma!!!

Guess I'll just stick to sports... in which I suck, but at least I'm better at it that singing... or playin any instrument for that matter...

So it'll either be another engineer or someone very sports-inclined... AC hopefully XD