That's so gay!

[mnguy]

Ok, two things.

One: What do people mean when they use that phrase? What other word could they use instead? The ones I've come up with for the context that I've heard are stupid, rotten, girly, and worthless. Not very positive.

Two: Do you think people would use that around people who they think are gay as a way of getting them to come out? It has been used in front of me by people who should suspect that I'm gay by now. I have questioned their poor word choice a few times, but they seem to think it's perfectly acceptable and I don't push it any further because I get so irritated at their ignorance (something I need to work on). If they are trying to get me to say that I'm gay and do they think that I'm worthless, they are going about it in the wrong way.

[ampthejazz]

One: "That's so gay" is synonymous with "that's so stupid," "that sucks," "that's weird," "that's lame," etc. Nothing positive at all.

Two: All the people who use that phrase around where I live don't mean it to get people down, as far as I know. I think that it's just become one of those phrases that people say without think about it, unfortunately. I get really pissed off when people use it, and I'll usually say something like "watch your mouth" or simply "don't say that," and people usually understand and correct themselves.

I doubt that people would say it just to provoke you, but then again I don't know the people you're talking about.

[Half-Light]

I am gay and i use that expression...I've always thought of it as meaning something i stupid. I never really thought of that as offensive...but where i live there are barely any gay people, so its accepted and we can say it and it doesnt mean anything...idk about the whole thing though...

[nisomer]

1. Like ampthejazz said, when people say it derogatorily, they mean that something/someone is stupid, lame, dumb. People quite often use other derogatory terms that may also offend others like "retarded" or "jewish" as well to mean the same thing.

2. I don't think people use to to get someone to come out. Especially because I think that people are completely oblivious when using that term. I don't think people realize that it may actually offend someone.

I for one, notice every time someone says it. I usually don't say anything to the person unless I am out to him/her. But usually people I am out to will not use gay in a derogatory way, at least when I'm around. And when they do say it when I'm around, they usually catch themselves and apologize quickly afterwards.

I don't really think it's right that we use that word derogatorily. Especially us as gays. First of all, by using it in place of another word that correlates to "bad", it in part, says that being gay is bad. Second of all, if gay people are saying it, it gives others the indication that it's okay to say it.

[Proud1p4]

I am gay and i use that expression...I've always thought of it as meaning something is stupid. I never really thought of that as offensive...but where i live there are barely any gay people, so its accepted and we can say it and it doesnt mean anything...idk about the whole thing though...

No offense but i think that whole post was a total, total display of thickheadedness.

Step1-That's so stupid.
Step2-That's so <insert substitute here>
Step3-That's so gay.

By this phrase the EXACT defintion of gay (again, by this phrase) is
Gay: to be stupid, weird, or wrong

---

How you can support that, being a gay man yourself....digusts me.

I'm usually not ever mean, but this saying and the fact that you, of all people say it without remorse infuriates me to no end. I'm sorry, but i can't be anything but honest, espicially now.

[Half-Light]

if i remember correctly i said "I dont know about the whole thing though"...o wait!...its on the post itself...i never said i supported it...i said that where i come from its accepted...its just normal from where i am and its just like swearing...you get so use to it that you dont even know that ur saying it...i'm sorry that i offended you...but dont take it out on me...you dont even know me and where i come from.....


As i said before, I just dont know about the whole situation...

[Nick8875]

The phrase bugs me alot personally.. for the same reason as you all. But what bugs me more is my straight friends are accepting of me being gay and yet dont see anything wrong with the phrase. My sister's worked with mentally retarded back in highschool so using "retarded" same way bothers my family as well.. Idk wut could be done bout it though cuz i've tried to educate and fix it round my parts...my towns jus plain ignorant and I hate it..

[Kenko]

Like others I don't like this phrase because it basically means "That is stupid" and thus equates gay with being inferior. Not exactly what you want when you're looking for "acceptance". I have a couple friends that say it frequently and it kind of annoys me. But I'm guilty of saying "that's retarded", which is basically just as bad.

I haven't seen it used to try and get people out. I don't even know how that would work. If anything it would make people more defensive. You'd have better luck with "So what do you think of gay marriage?"

Now, if someone uses it to describe something that *is* gay, and its not intended as a put down, or in a derogatory manner, I don't really see anything wrong with that.

[GuitarGirl1350]

I don't think people use it as a method of forcing people out. Indeed, it makes you seem homophobic. If people say it infront of me, I will tell them it offends me or it I will correct them subtly. (Agreeing, but saying yeah, that is STUPID with the emphasis on stupid.) The thing I hate more is faggot because that seems to be synonymous with idiot or moron or weak. I don't tolerate it.
It's kind of, if we said, "Wow, that's so n--ggerish" or "Wow, what a Jew." or "Don't be a chink" people would be up in arms. I know my school gives out suspensions for hateful slurs against blacks, latinos, Italians, Jews, Muslims, etc, but people can use gay and faggot in those terms and no one says anything. They also suspend you if you're white and say the nword- black people can say it all they want. So I guess the whole thing is racist. Blah.

[Proud1p4]

I never said i supported it...i said that where i come from its accepted...its just normal from where i am and its just like swearing...you get so use to it that you dont even know that ur saying it...i'm sorry that i offended you...but dont take it out on me...you dont even know me and where i come from.....


As i said before, I just dont know about the whole situation...

You say you don't support it, but you say it. Explain to me how two of these statments can both be accurate.

It is the same here, people use it as the common vocab, although the intent of the word is not as strong as "faggot" or "dyke" it still encourages others to use it. Widespread small forms of discrimination are just as potent and hurtful as contained large forms of discrimination.

And even though you don't know you're saying it, you act like that justifies it. As GuitarGirl said, adding my twist, if someone walked around saying "Thats so black", it has the exact same intention as "Thats so gay" but yet is far more controversial. Why.

When it comes to discrimination, you could be in Asia for all i care, if discrimination exists. It has to be stopped. Period.

I have no intent of "taking it out on you" emotionally or physically in any way. I might be iron-tongued but the moment i offend someone and am asked, kindly, to hold it, i will do so willingly.

[Qu_]

Back in the day I used to throw around "that's so gay", but I'm very careful in my word choice for EVERYTHING these days due to my slight OCD on grammar, so that phrase goes on out the window usually at the same time. I usually don't take note on it when people say it, because it's just so common here.

The word faggot is just awful. I hate it. In fact, I openly speak out against it when people say it, not exactly on the terms of why I really hate it, but I usually use the argument that it degrades that person's intelligence to use it. Generally people stop after that, because they don't like to look stupid.

[GuitarGirl1350]

It's degrading to use any of those words.
And the reason people would be so angry if the word was jew or chink or nigger is because those aren't acceptable prejudices. It's more widely accepted to hate gays. It's the same thing as the civil rights in the 1950's and 60's. Back then everyone hated blacks and considered them second class citizens. Fifty years later, you can be jailed on a hate crime for making it known that you don't like black people. It's a complete double standard and it's one of the many things that disgusts me about today's society. We're all a bunch of hypocrites. Not to say everyone is a hypocrite, just society as a whole.

[step49x]

Personally, I'm not a fan of society. But that's a whole different issue.

About the "that's so gay!" phrase, I currently try to ignore it. It does irk me a little bit when I hear people say it.

I haven't gotten to the point where I feel comfortable correcting people, but a while ago when I was at home, my sister called our computer "gay."

Let's see.... The computer is gay. I'm gay. I'm being put on the same level as an inanimate object?! :eusa_eh:

Yeah, I don't like being compared to "things"... :dry:

[Jamie]

hmmm well I have to admit I use the "that's just gay" or "that's so gay" myself... just to point out that something's rubbish, unfair, etc. But in truth it's pretty meaningless in its use, it's not used to rile people or to stir up offence. It's simply used to get across an opinion. I personally don't find it offensive and i'm not aware of anyone in my locality that does.

Then again this will stem back to the queer, fag, etc words to identify homosexuals too and some people find problem with them and other well don't. Me personally being the latter. Of course out of courtesy if i know someone has a problem with the phrases i'll try and steer clear of them, but when i'm around friends there's nothing wrong with me using the words... even if it does objectify sexuality.

[GuitarGirl1350]

Jamie-
I don't know how you can be gay and not be offended by using and hearing it. It's putting yourself down on the level with stupid and all that, everything that's been rehashed in this thread. Can you explain maybe why you're okay with being objectified? (Your words- not mine)

[Jamie]

purely because the words stem from a while back when homosexuality was something that was looked down up on. Today we're much more accepted in to society and words are used only due to habbit. and not with mallace

[Coats22]

In my health class our teacher, who is gay herself, would tell us not to say "that's so gay". She would explain how its offensive to gay people and what it's basically saying. Surprisingly it has seemed to work and I rarely hear it around school. If someone does say there are instantly a few people telling them not to say it.

[nisomer]

purely because the words stem from a while back when homosexuality was something that was looked down up on. Today we're much more accepted in to society and words are used only due to habbit. and not with mallace

So merely because it's a bad habit, you can't get rid of it? I could say nigger all the time and just excuse myself as with, "Sorry it's just a bad habit. It's okay though, since it doesn't really mean anything anymore because blacks are more accepted in society now."

[Proud1p4]

Jamie-
I don't know how you can be gay and not be offended by using and hearing it. It's putting yourself down on the level with stupid and all that, everything that's been rehashed in this thread. Can you explain maybe why you're okay with being objectified? (Your words- not mine)

Me and GuitarGirl are basically on the same wavelength here. It's digusting when heterosexuals use it and it's infuriating when homosexuals use it. I speak openly against it, it's just as offensive as faggot, despite it's innoncent intent. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Jamie]

lol, well i'm sorry if I annoy you all, but I personally just don't find it offensive. I think it's the meaning and the way it is said that makes me decide whether to be annoyed or not. If somebody said it in a demeaning tone then I probably would be a little p***ed but then again, if it's said completely without mallace, without hatred then excuse me for not being offended by something that wasn't meant to offend.

[GuitarGirl1350]

It always carries a trace of malice, that's what we mean. Because the word gay is being substituted for stupid or gross or weak. Do you understand that?

[suburbs_of_sodom]

I hate it when people say that. It just reflects an ignorant and hateful society that where homophobia is innate.

Although I must say, I LOVE when my friends say that. Like this one time when my friend was telling my other friend Rob "yeah, I was stuck behind you and your faggy blue prius coming into school today," and I was like "sorry, what's that Cecilia?" and she was like "oh...umm...I mean...your straight-man manly...car..."

Any opportunity to make things more awkward...

Altough apart from that, it's really awful and bugs me to death.

[step49x]

if it's said completely without mallace, without hatred then excuse me for not being offended by something that wasn't meant to offend.
As GuitarGirl mentioned, when is it ever said kindly?

My sister had a 'nice' conversation with someone (who she dumped via phone yesterday) and their friends. I haven't come out to her yet, which is why I didn't jump up to correct her, but almost every insult she hurled was all GLBT name-related. The guy was a "faggot," and the girls in the room with him (who called my sister and did a lot of talking for him) were both "lesbians." She then continued to throw whatever insults she could think of at them. My sister's a freshman in high school, if you're curious.

Yeah, I was thinking about coming out to her today, too. Well, maybe next time I'm home...

[mnguy]

Let me clarify what I meant by wondering if people I know using this phrase around me in an attempt to draw me out. The idea is that they would say it hoping that I would voice my opposition to it, possibly showing irritation, and then they would ask, "What, are you gay?" I'm sure it's just me overthinking this scenario, which is pretty common. The people I'm talking about are co-workers, friends, and my brothers. I'm fairly certain none of them hate gay people, they are no doubt using it as a common phrase, but none the less using it as a put down. To me, it's saying that gay people are inherently less valuable than straight people; as if we're garbage 2nd rate humans, good only for a laugh at our expense.

I have sarcastically asked for clarification by saying something like, "So do you mean that car (or whatever is being put down) is really happy or do you mean that it is sexually attracted to other cars of the same gender?" To me, those are the only acceptable uses for the word gay, happy and homosexual.

[Triplume]

I agree with what most people have already said--hearing that from straight people bothers me, and hearing it from gay people bothers me even more. I simply cannot accept that it's "word evolution" or that it's become so engrained in the minds of teenagers and is now a "force of habit".

When someone says it, even if it's without malice, obviously you can assume that that person doesn't have a very positive view of gays. How can you, when you supposedly "subconsciously" spew these phrases that equate us to something inferior, to be mocked and laughed at?

I'm most interested in the things you have done to try to get their friends, teachers, family members, or even schools, to stop using this phrase. Or how you respond to such a remark.

Personally, I just say something blunt and to-the-point, i.e. "gay isn't a synonym for stupid," or "what you said was incredibly offensive."

[Kittie]

I dont think people mean it as offensive, thier just so used to saying it, its hard to stop yourself

[Kittie]

Oh, and have you noticed theres a new slang, "staight" meaning "okay" "cool" "right" such as are you okay? yeah, Im straight. Are you mad? no Im straight.

[Proud1p4]

I dont think people mean it as offensive, thier just so used to saying it, its hard to stop yourself

Oh boy. I hate having to disagree with newcomers because it marrs their view of EC. So i'll keep it clean.

Thats just as bad as going to a murder trial, getting up on the stand and saying "well, he didn't mean to kill him, he's just so used to doing it, it's hard to stop himself".

Argue that it's not the same thing and then i will absolutely trip out.

Oh, and have you noticed theres a new slang, "staight" meaning "okay" "cool" "right" such as are you okay? yeah, Im straight. Are you mad? no Im straight.

So you see the trend, you see how people define "Gay" and "Straight" but yet you still don't see anything wrong with it or try to stop it. That is the EXACT defintion of dumb, sorry. But this is one topic i have no patience for.

[GuitarGirl1350]

You shouldn't use straight as slang either. I don't. It sounds so stupid when you say damn straight or something- not necessarily for discriminatory reasons, as it means cool, but for the fact that you sound like an uneducated moron who can't use words like "wicked", "awesome", "cool", or "sweet".
However, mostly it's the "gangstah" idiot-people who moved here from NY use it, so perhaps it's just a personal opinion.

[mnguy]

Here's an article related to this topic. http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2007/02/28/4

It's interesting when the article says, "Testifying last week about the 2002 incident, Rice, now 18, said that when she uttered those words, she was not referring to anyone's sexual orientation. She said the phrase meant: "That's so stupid, that's so silly, that's so dumb.""

She clearly thinks that it is ok to use the phrase to mean stupid, silly, and dumb, which says that being gay and gay people are those things. She seems to think it would be wrong to use the word gay in reference so someone's sexual orientation.

She has this backwards. It is ok to use the word gay to mean homosexual as a statement of fact or in a question. It's not ok to use it in place of demeaning adjectives.

[nisomer]

I dont think people mean it as offensive, thier just so used to saying it, its hard to stop yourself

Oh boy. I hate having to disagree with newcomers because it marrs their view of EC. So i'll keep it clean.

Thats just as bad as going to a murder trial, getting up on the stand and saying "well, he didn't mean to kill him, he's just so used to doing it, it's hard to stop himself".

Argue that it's not the same thing and then i will absolutely trip out.



If you know me, you'll know that I'm definitely against people using gay, fag, homo, etc, as derogatory terms. However, I agree with Kittie when she says that people, especially younger teens, don't see it as offensive and don't even know what their saying. They just say it to say it, cuz everyone else is saying it. It is JUST like saying 'that's retarded' and I think many of us probably have said that before without thinking about it...we used it as describing something as stupid and meant NOTHING against people with mental disabilities.

It's all about how you are being raised as a child. If nobody tells you it's bad, then you don't think anything of it. If no one tells these kids that saying, "that's gay" means something totally different, then they'll just keep saying it thinking it's just another word for dumb. I don't think the murder trial analogy really works, as it is quite extreme, and because as children, I think most are taught that fighting and hurting someone is bad, and therefore they don't do it.

I think that the "fighting" analogy does work particularly well though. If say, a kid constantly gets in a fights at school, you could argue that he does so because he was never taught that it was wrong, and therefore always got into conflicts with other kids. "He does it because he's so used to doing it" is actually a reasonable argument because he was never disciplined to not do it.

I guess my point is, that it's really all based on your influences in life, and what they have taught you, or not taught you. If no one tells a kid that using gay as a derogatory term is wrong, they'll think nothing of it and continue using it until their teen, or even adult lives. And when they do realize it's wrong, they may try to stop, but like Kittie says, it's hard...It's always hard to rid yourself of old habits.

[CatamiteAngel]

I think that it should be punished in schools, and we shouldn't be teaching children to say it. But I use it... but I also call myself a fag. It's a bit like the 'nigger' thing... it's only PC if you're one? If it offends you, definitely ask people not to say that around you. If you're okay with it, I wouldn't stress out about it too much.

[spydar]

just a reminder , 1 sticks and stones .......etc ..
2 GAY = an english word meaning "happy or bright"
oh yes, and "FAG"= a ciggarette (just thougt i'd throw that one in for a bit of perspective. :dry:

[GuitarGirl1350]

fag=cigarette
fag=flamer
flamer=gay slang
note a connection?

[tired_of_lying411]

I know it's a big habit thing. And I know how easy it is to get into a habit with using a word as a substitution. I, myself use the word "retarded" to mean stupid or backwards. I hate that I do it because it's no different to using gay to mean stupid. There, that's my disclaimer.

Now. Gay people saying "That's SO gay" to describe ANYTHING other than some guy who DESERVES the label, etc is SO WRONG. If we want them to stop, we can't do it ourselves. What more motivation do you need to stop saying it?

grr. I know this has all been said before, but I had to let off some steam here.

[Half-Light]

i'm sorry if i tried to excuse my confusion on the matter, but when i first posted i was answering the question that was asked: i was voicing my opinion. i am srry if my opinion doesnt match any of yours. if you have a prolem with my opinion keep it to yourself or something. (this post is directed towards those who disagreed with me earlier). i dont wanna fight here. its not what i joined EC for, believe it or not...

[nisomer]

dude, its all good. everyone is entitled to an opinion. i was merely, in my posts, trying to convince/persuade you and others about how using gay derogatorily is bad. i still love u though...in a non...gay...way...........maybe.

[Jerr]

YAY I get to voice my opinion on this subject!!!!


I understand what Mr. Half-Light means... I am born and raised in Arkansas... so... "This is gay!" and yadda yadda was once something I said often.

One day (after I accepted the fact that I was fond of members of the same sex...) I chose not to say it ever again... When friends would say it (only those who were online because the ones in person never say it) I asked them not to... when they would say "Oh, sorry! I didn't mean to offend you." I would inform them that... it didn't offend me because it just made them look homophobic. Homophobic people (well who we call homophobic) HATE homosexuals... well... other then lesbians (hot lesbians) because that is how the cookie crumbles in most of the south. (and elsewhere) so I'll tell them that them sounding like homophobic means that they are scared of gays which is really funny because the stereo type for a gay man is week... yet you are scared... so you are scared of a week man? and then after i would say that i never heard the phrase again


Fag or any variation of the word is really the only thing that bothers me... I don't know why but it gets under my skin... it always has even before I accepted liking those of the same sex.


Back to half-light... (I'm just going off the information you have provided me with so far and comparing it to here) he doesn't see it as bad because it has never been bad and even now it isn't considered bad... it is just another way of life... now as for anyone his age or even in school seeing it and meaning it as a derogatory thing for homosexuals... i HIGHLY doubt that.... YES I GET IT... even though they don't mean it it still is... well... you don't live near him so what he does there has no effect on you really... all he was doing here is telling you that it doesn't have the same effect where he is... (although it would have helped him out A LOT if he went into as much detail as i did... although i must admit im watching tv so this is taking me like 40 mins to type)



I actually find it worse for homosexuals to use the frase... because if a hetero uses it you can be like "Oh, hes homophobic!" but if a gay guy uses it... well... unless the circumstances permit it really is horrid. (circumstances meaning place it was said people you are around and where you live... yes you can change it and say something else but changing how you talk takes time... not only for yourself but so people wont notice you are making an abrupt change in how you talk) I feel it is the same as when a black person (yes i said black! im not going to say african american unless the person is from AFRICA... gangstalicious does not count as African American) says nigger... I think it is far better for a white person to say it... because you can say oh well he is racist... now that can be taken to far... (the racist thing) where people are saying everything is racist...


but yea this post is much worse then i am capable of doing but hey... ADD and


THE RICHES WAS ON TONIGHT!!!! (new show... Eddie Izzard stars... and he = the shit!)

[spydar]

fag=cigarette
fag=flamer
flamer=gay slang
note a connection?
no not really, cigerettes glow and even if they do "flame" just because six degrees (or less) of seperation can be established as with anything if you take a moment to make them, dos'nt change the fact that it dos'nt make it ok? ....ok? now im off to amsterdam to plug a leaky dyke .:dry: six degrees anyone?

[Proud1p4]

now as for anyone his age or even in school seeing it and meaning it as a derogatory thing for homosexuals... i HIGHLY doubt that.... YES I GET IT... even though they don't mean it it still is... well... you don't live near him so what he does there has no effect on you really... all he was doing here is telling you that it doesn't have the same effect where he is...

Well i've had a recent history of misunderstanding what people say in there posts but out of that quote (above) i understood this;

what Half-Light does in his state has no effect on stopping the statement for being used anywhere else. ("you don't live near him so what he does there has no effect on you really")

And now i have _ thing to say;

1. It doesn't matter if they "mean" it as a durogatory term. If a six year old child, completely ignorant of what the term means, goes up to a black man and says "nigger" because he heard it on tv. It stills bears the same discriminatory meaning on the black man as if a full grown adult, completely knowledgible of what the word meant, said it.

2. Even if somewhere in Iceland or the North Pole someone said "oh man, i haven't even seen a whale yet, that's gay" and his friend told him to shut up and explained what the phrase meant, it has a profound effect on the rest of the world. In the words of Martin Luther King Jr "A threat to justice anywhere, is a threat to justice everywhere." Now tell me he's wrong, that MLKJ was full of shit, and i'll tell you you're one dull knife.

3. You assume that the phrase isn't spoken just as often and just as ignorantly as here in NL....i'm willing to bet it's said even more often. I hear it every three minutes in my school, at the least. To others, it doesn't have the same "effect" either. Whether here or in the US. But does that make it right or ok in the slightest? If it took you more than a millisecond to think "no" than please, get a shrink.


I am trying to convince ANYONE who uses the term that it is inherently immoral and self-sabotaging of any efforts made by the gay community to end discrimination. It is a DIRECT contradiction.

I'm sorry that some of you may feel i'm targeting any of you personally but allowing people to see how self-sabotaging this phrase is, is far too important to me to "keep it to myself".

[mnguy]

Hey Proud. I like your post. I especially liked this part, "Now tell me he's wrong, that MLKJ was full of shit, and i'll tell you you're one dull knife."

Nice use of words, man. If people who mis-use the word gay would put just a shred of the thought that you put into your post, maybe they could think of one other word to use instead of gay when they mean stupid. Oh wait! There's one word they could use.:lol:

[tired_of_lying411]

Game, set and match.

Thank you, Proud for summing this all up. I am so happy that your exact message was delivered in this thread. If anyone can read that (especially if they're gay) and still throw "thats so gay" around willingly, they obviously have other problems.

Once again, perfection. :eusa_clap

And to the "saying it in place A has no effect on place B" comments:
If people saying it in one place TRULY had no effect on encouraging people of another place, it wouldn't be so widely used today. This is a world wide disaster and needs to be stopped world wide.

[Jerr]

Game, set and match.

Thank you, Proud for summing this all up. I am so happy that your exact message was delivered in this thread. If anyone can read that (especially if they're gay) and still throw "thats so gay" around willingly, they obviously have other problems.

Once again, perfection. :eusa_clap

And to the "saying it in place A has no effect on place B" comments:
If people saying it in one place TRULY had no effect on encouraging people of another place, it wouldn't be so widely used today. This is a world wide disaster and needs to be stopped world wide.

being gay and throwing it around for him would be saying it to stay safe... because generally gay people wont say... thats so gay... so if he says it it pretty much assures to his friends that he isn't gay... so he can stay closeted until he is ready...

yea he can say it less and eventually work until it isn't said but if he says it a lot now then just stops... someone will notice... or even if they won't it is a fear in my mind... his... mind...

(living in Arkansas surrounded by rednecks you do what you can to assure you are not found out... at least until you are ready...)


[again not saying it is the RIGHT thing but I do understand why someone would]

[Proud1p4]

being gay and throwing it around for him would be saying it to stay safe... because generally gay people wont say... thats so gay... so if he says it it pretty much assures to his friends that he isn't gay... so he can stay closeted until he is ready...

yea he can say it less and eventually work until it isn't said but if he says it a lot now then just stops... someone will notice... or even if they won't it is a fear in my mind... his... mind...

(living in Arkansas surrounded by rednecks you do what you can to assure you are not found out... at least until you are ready...)


[again not saying it is the RIGHT thing but I do understand why someone would]

Is the risk of being outed more important than stopping worldwind discrimination? I forget which famous dead guy said;

"The good of the one, must be sacrificed for the good of the all."

And i think the term "straight ally" can be used to fend off the people might think he's gay. Until he's ready i mean.

Anyone who dismisses the term probably will think him gay just for the sake of being an asshole, not on any inkling of fact or reason. It's people like this you shouldn't worry or let bother you. These people are beyond changing by your words or actions. They are raised intolerant and save if you are a very well informed individual who has been out long enough to develop intense pride, you will not be able to pull them out of years and years of spoon-fed hatred.

When dealing with such jerks, remember;

"No one can make you feel inferiour without your consent."

(Oh, btw thanks tired & mnguy for the compliment :))

[Rain33]

I hate when people get offeneded when people say that. I say god thats so gay all the time. Its just like thats retarted im not really calling what im talking about gay.

[GuitarGirl1350]

Then what are you calling it? If you're calling it stupid, why not call it stupid?

[Jerr]

Is the risk of being outed more important than stopping worldwide discrimination? I forget which famous dead guy said;

"The good of the one, must be sacrificed for the good of the all."



At the risk of a fag drag I would DEF say it to throw people off... That was my biggest fear growing up... I live around red necks... red necks who had kids (we should of fixed them to prevent the population of them from growing!!!) and the kids know what a fag drag is... well not kids those old enough to drive... I know the chances of a fag drag happening are RARE (haven't heard of one in quite some time) but still just the stories of them are horrible and scurry enough for anyone to use any means to try and prove they are not...

other then my rentals disowning me (which now I'm not afraid of... its guaranteed SO no fear) the fag drag was my biggest fear as a youngen... now I'm older i know it wouldn't happen to me (most likely not... keeping my fingers crossed though) especially sense I made friends with all the red necks g/f's haha and i thought them how to do that thing the guy likes... (ill leave it at that) so i think I'm kinda safe for the most part as long as i don't go up to anyone too redneckish and say/act in a highly flamboyant manner


Fag Drag scared me... but I did eventually ween myself (and those around me) off of using gay in any sort of an insulting fashion.


Some definitions for a Fag Drag are:

1. to round up three or four queers and beat the livin' hell out of them, then hook tem up to a truck and go.

2. the act of trying up a homosexual and dragging them behind a motor vehicle.

3. Fag drag, When 3 or more people beat down a gay kid, tie him to their car by his feet, and drag him down the road screaming FAG DRAG out windows, moon roofs, and any other place one can fit their heads out of.

4. Rapidly becoming a popular and sophisticated sport. The act of tying fags to the back of cars and drag racing. This is an underground sport and is illegal.




OK so number 4 was a bit... well yea... but whatever basically... you tie a male of the Homosexual Persuasion (I think it is fun to say it like that) to the back of a vehicle (generally a truck) then go!

[Rain33]

Maybe im wrong but i laughed when ir ead that fag dragging is an underground sport. WTF do people have nothing better to do with their time/.

But yeah saying thats gay isnt bad. Im sorry but if you let little things like that piss you off you wont get anywhere in life. Thats like a blonde getting mad over a blonde joke.

[GuitarGirl1350]

but it's not a joke. it's a sentence. It's a word that's quickly being construed in the english language to mean stupid, idiotic, lame, etc. Why can't you just use those words instead of hateful (and hypocritical if you're on this board) words?

[Half-Light]

going with Jerr here, I would rather go with the flow atleast until I can get out of my hometown, becuase i am moving as soon as I turn eighteen, and then I can fully accept who I am. How can anybody know what our life is like? I'm sorry, but where I come from being gay is a sentence to ridicule of all kinds. I want out of where I am so bad so I can escape that. So I am sorry if I am blending in for 4 years until I can get out. Now I am onyl out to really close friends and relatives, but not out to anyone else for fear of being found out. Plus, I have too many other problems right now than to worry about what I say. So don't judge me or anyone else if you dont know the story. You can't choose where you live if your a minor....

I have no hard feelings by the way...as i said, i dont wish to fight...

[Jerr]

Maybe im wrong but i laughed when ir ead that fag dragging is an underground sport. WTF do people have nothing better to do with their time/.


lol i know i laughed at number 4... that definition is well...... yea lol but it was one of the ones that actually told a lil about what a fag drag is

[tired_of_lying411]

I think that hearing this word that defines so many of us being used in a derogatory way has much the same effect as being verbally abused. This is a serious thing, no matter in what context it is said. It's NEVER funny. It's NEVER okay. And let's face it, it makes NO SENSE. (Of course, I'm referring to it's irrelevant use. The exact phrase, to me, should be reserved for describing things of an actual homosexual nature.)

And as for using it as a 'cover': Why? There are SO many other ways to stay closeted. There are PLENTY of straight people that don't say it. It's not a case of if you don't say it, you're gay. It's just NOT NEEDED.

Clearly there minds in this thread that won't be changed, which is really sad to me. This needs to be stopped. We ALL know how hard it can be, growing up gay. The last thing we need to do is inflict more hatred on future generations.

Can't we all agree that it, at least, doesn't do ANY good. And that there is sufficient evidence in this thread, alone, to show that it's effects could be, in fact, negative?

If it doesn't bother someone, it should at least be their responsibility to help those of us who WANT to get rid of it. I mean, are you guys who do use it REALLY that attached?
If so, that's just pathetic.


You're ALL stupid. You ALL equal dumb. I think you're all pathetic, like a super lame party. I think you are ALL the DUMBEST, CRAPPIEST, most RIDICULOUS things in the world.

Now how does that sound? Pretty bad, agree? How can anyone want to allow that kind of abuse to continue, just to keep an inaccurate word in their vocabulary?

[Jerr]

And as for using it as a 'cover': Why? There are SO many other ways to stay closeted. There are PLENTY of straight people that don't say it. It's not a case of if you don't say it, you're gay. It's just NOT NEEDED.





It is only meant as a cover because well at first when (I'll use myself) I was in 5th grade... being gay was a bad thing... and EVERYONE was saying "That is SO gay!" in a derogatory way... I already had a rumor going around so I used it... I also became homophobic for a few years... Eventually after I had accepted myself... I had to SLOWLY change what I said... I had said it for so many years as a way to try and make myself hate it thus making me completely straight that it became second nature to say it. It was a habit and it was a way to try and prevent people from thinking that about me. So if I had just stopped in one day (assuming that the habit would be that easy to stop in one day w/o any slip ups) it would have been weird... someone would have noticed... (or so my paranoid self thought... OH if you don't know I am like THE most Paranoid person EVER... don't know why.. mostly over stupid things)


Yes there are other ways to stay closeted... Once I had accepted myself I did ween myself from using the word Gay as something negative but it did take a while... for close friends that is (I was closeted to everyone) To everyone else it just took one summer... because hey words change over summer!

[Proud1p4]

Then what are you calling it? If you're calling it stupid, why not call it stupid?

I don't think we're getting through to them...we both have made our best points, alas no change.

but it's not a joke. it's a sentence. It's a word that's quickly being construed in the english language to mean stupid, idiotic, lame, etc. Why can't you just use those words instead of hateful (and hypocritical if you're on this board) words?

Again, majorly good point. I think they have cast-iron spheres for heads.

becuase i am moving as soon as I turn eighteen, and then I can fully accept who I am. How can anybody know what our life is like? I'm sorry, but where I come from being gay is a sentence to ridicule of all kinds. I want out of where I am so bad so I can escape that. So I am sorry if I am blending in for 4 years until I can get out. Now I am onyl out to really close friends and relatives, but not out to anyone else for fear of being found out. Plus, I have too many other problems right now than to worry about what I say. So don't judge me or anyone else if you dont know the story. You can't choose where you live if your a minor....

I have no hard feelings by the way...as i said, i dont wish to fight...

You assumed where you live is worse than where any of the rest of us live. I got some tough love for you, this is a world wide problem, you can't run off to a neighbouring city and expect it to be better. It's an illusion in your head if you think that somehow where you live justifies you actions. Using such a phrase is throwing gas on the fire, bloating discrimination to spill out even heavier onto the world. Smothering any efforts to combat it. Continuing the cycle. And i'm sorry i cannot respect that decision. I won't attack you because of it. But asking me not to "judge you" is allowing you to continue in blissful ignorance. Something i can't let happen.

Can't we all agree that it, at least, doesn't do ANY good. And that there is sufficient evidence in this thread, alone, to show that it's effects could be, in fact, negative?

If it doesn't bother someone, it should at least be their responsibility to help those of us who WANT to get rid of it. I mean, are you guys who do use it REALLY that attached?
If so, that's just pathetic.


You're ALL stupid. You ALL equal dumb. I think you're all pathetic, like a super lame party. I think you are ALL the DUMBEST, CRAPPIEST, most RIDICULOUS things in the world.

Now how does that sound? Pretty bad, agree? How can anyone want to allow that kind of abuse to continue, just to keep an inaccurate word in their vocabulary?

Brava on that whole post. Obviously me and GuitarGirl have been deemed incredible by most here, hopefully you can get through to them where we failed.

It is only meant as a cover because well at first when (I'll use myself) I was in 5th grade... being gay was a bad thing... and EVERYONE was saying "That is SO gay!" in a derogatory way... I already had a rumor going around so I used it...

And your good, respectible reason for using the phrase can be found where in that quote exactly?


--------------------------------------------
Okay i obviously am not getting through to anyone of you here, so i'll say this;

Continue to use "thats so gay" because apparently, i can't convince you otherwise.

But know this, next time you say it, your continuing the cycle of discrimination that could literally, make us into second class citizens.

Know that you are encouraging intolerance that someone else, obviously with more integrity than you, will have to reverse. (essentially, clean up your mess)

Know that the words that have just left your mouth have made you sound, to some other person next to you.... homophobic.

And know, you can never take them back.

If you are ok with all that above, then by all means use the phrase. But know in my books you have lost every ounce of my (and people who share my anti-anti-gay-slurs stance) respect no matter what you do to try and earn it back, you won't.

[Proud1p4]

^Thats my last post i plan on doing in this thread because i just am not getting through, i shared my points, know it's up to you to learn what's best. Who knows maybe i'm wrong, but know there is a chance i could be right.

I may be back if someone says something incredibly injust, in which case i cannot resist calling them out.

[tired_of_lying411]

And that will also conclude my posting here as well. I echo all that Kyle has said. It's a shame this couldn't have gone in a different direction. I'm really glad that Proud, Guitar Girl, and I (and any others for the opposition of "that's so gay") were able to say what we said. I'm glad we, at least, agree on this subject, and I hope we can sleep a little better knowing how hard we tried.

[Half-Light]

I see that it is wrong to use slurs...I do plan on stopping the use of the "that's so gay" phrase"...I have to accept who I am and not be hypocrytical to blend in with my surroundings and peers. Thank you Proud for making me see things clearly...

By the way, I dont plan on moving to a nearby city, I am hoping to move to the opposite end of the country or over seas. I have had a taste of life away from home and oer seas and I want it back. I am too exhausted from where I am and I hear that alot from my friends who are from where I am. I can't continue living here. I need to start clean...

But yeah, thanks Proud...you are a really smart person...

[spydar]

this thread is soooo gay!

[Jerr]

this thread is soooo gay!

...actually ...that is accurate haha