trouble at school [Archive]

cowboy_wannabe

10th Jan 2005, 05:38 PM

well, i'm in need of some advice.

at school in our human psychology class, we're discussing protests of the sixties and seventies. our teacher assigned us a project to create a protest of something that is big in our culture today.

one group is doing their protest against gays. poking fun at 'glad' they've called their group 'fags' for 'friends against gay society.' in three days, i have to sit for fifteen minutes and listen to them belittle everything that i stand for.

of course, at the moment, i'm not openly gay and to stand up to the group would probibly not be something easily accepted by my peers. furthermore, my teacher isn't doing anything about it. these guys are a riot because they're making fun of gays.

what do i do?

Matt

13th Jan 2005, 05:39 PM

Whoa...sorry I didn't see this.

How did it go?

I think that you'd be surprised at who would stand up for/with you if you decided your project should be gay themed.

TriBi

20th Jan 2005, 02:00 PM

Sorry...I'm just back from vacation, so missed this too.

Did you just grind your teeth and sit through it, or did you say something?
Did anyone else give any indication that they thought it was unacceptable?

I must say, I think your teacher is showing very poor taste if he condoned their presentation...it is discrimination, whichever way you look at it.

cowboy_wannabe

23rd Jan 2005, 06:54 PM

okay, well, it's been a couple of days since the project, and it did kinda get under my skin.

they presented their protest as a group offering an "alternative" choice to homosexuality. like if gays wanted to, they could go to their group and be turned straight again. the crux of their arguement was that gay people were gay because of events in their life, not because of some genetic thing or something else... most importantly, they pointed fingers at not having a strong male figure and in return, gays longing to have that masculinity in their life.

i really didn't know how to respond. that's obviously not how i feel, but i just couldn't come up with the words to respond.

the whole class ended up having a period-long discussion about it, and in the end there we just as many supporters saying that gay people should be left alone and let live then those who said "turn the fags straight."

in the end, it was the only debate i stayed out of. wayyy to emotional for me to get into.

my teacher said that he didn't want to censor a student's rights to free speech, and that's why he let them do it.

TriBi

28th Jan 2005, 12:24 PM

Well, it sounds as if it was a bit uncomfortable to sit through, but certainly not as bad as it could have been. I guess the reaction of "live and let live" from half the class was pretty encouraging. Could help you know who your more sympathetic friends might be too - which could actually be a plus.

I still think it was a bit ill advised of the teacher to allow it to proceed in that way tho'. IMO some direction should have been given in regards to avoiding a discriminatory presentation.

Does this say something about the attitude of the teacher, or did he in fact deal fairly with the topic on the day?

cowboy_wannabe

28th Jan 2005, 09:32 PM

well, this guy is about sixty years old, he's really old fasioned, et cetera... he said that he was a bit on the homophobic side, but he didn't see anything wrong with letting gay people live as themselves. he said at the beginning of the project that nothing would be censored, but i think it would be different if say, someone said that they were against blacks.

it just goes with the life, i guess...

cyberbry

23rd Mar 2005, 06:41 PM

You should ask your teacher if a group had been doing a presentation insisting the holocaust didn't happen if he would have allowed that to proceed in the name of free speech...

There's a very big difference between free speech and spouting lies and hate. It's like that old saying "Your right to free speech doesn't include the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre" - basically free speech should only go so far as you're not hurting others by saying it.

okstatecowboy

23rd Mar 2005, 07:48 PM

Sounds like the teacher took the wimp's way out. He's near retirement and doesn't want to do anything that might be viewed as controversial or as a definitive decision. He's just gonna coast thru til he retires.

Since you're not out, you probably did the best thing possible. If there's a teacher in the building you feel comfortable talking with, you might have mentioned it to him/her. Sometimes a teacher can say something to another teacher and have more impact on them than a student.

Just bide your time and do things as you're ready and comfortable doing so. There's no law saying if and when you have to come out.

mikey

hawkeye

23rd Mar 2005, 09:36 PM

I understand how hard it could be to sit through something like that. I just hate it how some people believe they can classify other peoples beliefs/ideas/orientation. I know plenty of kids in school who are lutheren (I am actualy Catholic) but never would I say there are alternatives to their religion. I guess some people just need to put a little more thought into the situation. Your teacher seemed to have an alright response, but i think the project would have been more biased if there was another group debating the other side. I personaly cant wait till after spring break, two weeks from now, just so i can try to bring up the subject for current events. I seem to have a very strongly opinionated class, and everyone's good debators.

Aaron

24th Mar 2005, 06:43 PM

Hey Cowboy. That seems like quite the uncomfortable class. You did the best thing you could do, and that was stay out of it. I've seen debates on homosexuality turn bad very quickly.

The fact that half your class was in support of "live and let live" is a good sign. Chances are, as they mature and start making their own decisions, that number will increase, and you will find the homophobic students forming the minority.

It may be hard now, but at least you have a community like EC to vent. You might also consider looking for a youth help line or crisis line in your area. They will be there to listen 24/7. You are going to run into teachers and students like these for the rest of your time in school...u just need to learn to let them slide before you are out.

Good luck with everything.

Soilwork

26th Mar 2005, 12:03 PM

I'm horrified that such a thing would..COULD be allowed in a school of all places.

My sister is a middle school teacher, and she said that once, she had two students do a rather homophobic skit for her history class. She stopped them in the middle, told them and the class that she had a gay brother who'd gone through hell in high school and that she wasn't going to have any of that in her class.

She gave them zeros on the assignment.

I wish I had been there with you, because I would have stood up to them with you..it makes me sick that that was allowed... In Canada, allowing that would have resulted in the firing of the teacher, suspension of the students and mandatory sensitivity training for the faculty that remained. I'm not kidding.

Stand up for yourself, dude, Superman is busy and can't save everyone.

Aaron

26th Mar 2005, 02:54 PM

goratrix

1st Apr 2005, 09:28 PM

Where do you live anyway? 'cause I'm pretty sure that might that happen in almost any country you would have a cause of action against the school... or at least you could push the school to take action in the matter.

Anyway, I can understand you, and I feel for what you had to go through. I go to a christian college, so... I know what's it like to be in the middle of 50 people that you know won't accept you fro what you are. Ate least in your case you know there are some people that think "live and let live".

desko

1st Apr 2005, 10:33 PM

In Canada, allowing that would have resulted in the firing of the teacher, suspension of the students and mandatory sensitivity training for the faculty that remained. I'm not kidding.

:bang: Thats incredible. Here (Small town, Australia), depending on the teacher, thay might just tell them to sit down, or let them go ahead. Certainly no punishments.

Anyway, i just try not to get to worked up over any of them. Why bother? Are they worth it? It's great to hear that about half your class supports it though. Very encouraging. :icon_razz

ahunt83

4th Apr 2005, 09:44 AM

Canada seems more attractive everyday. The problem over here in blighty is that schools are afraid to talk about the subject, not just with the pupils but amoungst the staff and so there are no policies. It's the classic government answer to a problem they don't want to deal with of put your fingers in your ears and sing loudly that there is no problem. Works until 14 year old kids start assulting and killing gay guys.

goratrix

4th Apr 2005, 10:29 AM

life's a bitch. Anyways... if you are not sure about your physical security I would suggest you take self defense classes, or perhaps even start training in some of the fine arts of tai-chi or aikido. They are designed for small or old people to take over huge monsters. And with enough training you could protect yourself at any level. If you are a bit larger, and have strength... then either box or practice something like karate, kung fu, taekwondo, judo etc

ahunt83

4th Apr 2005, 10:45 AM

I'm not worried about my security as for one i'm not out and then there's the fact i'm 6'4". Just seems such a shit world where 14 year old children end up with such homophobic views that they kill someone.

goratrix

4th Apr 2005, 01:16 PM

Oh, yes. but then again, not five hundred years ago people were burning women alive, and then not fifty years ago people were killing each other in one of the bloodiest wars ever, that ended with the use of the most fearsome invention ever created by man. Yet concieved by one of the greatest minds of this, our earth, the use it was given is awful. I am of course talking about nuclear weapons. My faith in humanity vanished the day they taught us about WWII in school. And now that I grew up, and started to see how the world of the grown ups work, and started to understand how important was to teach people values I realized that it's not the kids fault, but humanity's itself.

Think about this: if you tell people that we are all the same. What will they do when they realize that we are not. In fact we have absolutely nothing in common, except tat we all live in this world. They try to teach tolerance by saying everyone is equal! but the real fact is that we are all different, and THAT IS EXACTLY why discrimination makes no sense.

Anyway, I believe, like it or no, that the media plays a great role on 14YOs attacking gay guys. It's the image the've created, the image they send through the media that makes people dislike gays.

For instance, when we are dinning at home, sometimes we watch shows like queer eye for the straigh guy. And some of the guys there (specially the blond one that takes care of fashion) is disgusting. He's not just gay, he is girly... he seems jessica simpson or something. And that's just not right. Every time I see him I want to punch him. And THAT is the image most people have of gay men... drama queens, transvesties, etc. And I WANT to believe that those are the few, and that most gay men actually function like every other person on the planet, with the sole difference that they like other men instead of women.

nisomer

4th Apr 2005, 03:59 PM

For instance, when we are dinning at home, sometimes we watch shows like queer eye for the straigh guy. And some of the guys there (specially the blond one that takes care of fashion) is disgusting. He's not just gay, he is girly... he seems jessica simpson or something. And that's just not right. Every time I see him I want to punch him. And THAT is the image most people have of gay men... drama queens, transvesties, etc. And I WANT to believe that those are the few, and that most gay men actually function like every other person on the planet, with the sole difference that they like other men instead of women.

Nicely said. I totally agree with you. I have experienced people like this myself. In marching band last summer/fall, there was this gay guy. It was obvious he was gay, he was in color gaurd, he would hang out with just girls, and he acted like that "drama queen". In fact, I think his brother even said he was gay. ANYWAYS, pretty much everyone disliked him because of many reasons. Whenever we were out on the field and things would go wrong between him and someone else, he acted like it was always the other persons fault, and would be just so bitchy, like a girl. And he had this attitude as well, I don't know what it was, but it seemed like the only people he was nice to were the band directors and his fellow color gaurd members.

These are the people I dislike because it gives gay people a bad reputation. All of my friends were talking shit about him because of how he acted, and how he was gay. I didn't really like it, but sometimes I had to agree. Like, one of my friends said something like "I don't mind gay people, but it's just when they act so girly, its gets annoying." And I did agree with that.

goratrix

4th Apr 2005, 09:21 PM

Anyway... I am gay. that means I like men. And that is not a man. It's just a sissy little girl in the body of a guy.

hawkeye

4th Apr 2005, 10:22 PM

Great line goratrix, i have the same view, but you said it better than i could have

Anyway... I am gay. that means I like men. And that is not a man. It's just a sissy little girl in the body of a guy.

joeyconnick

12th Apr 2005, 11:19 PM

joeyconnick

12th Apr 2005, 11:33 PM

Anyway... I am gay. that means I like men. And that is not a man. It's just a sissy little girl in the body of a guy.

Hey! I object to that... some of my best friends are girls! And I'd rather hang out with guys who were more fem than butch any day.

Don't you guys get that what you're saying about femmy gay guys is EXACTLY what macho straight homophobic buffoons say about ALL gay guys? They don't care how butch a gay guy is, they think we're dirt because we like it up the ass. Or giving it up the ass to another guy. Or sucking cock, or whatever your guy-guy sexual practices are.

Are we gonna start putting down all the girls who are more boyish than girlish? Shouldn't people be allowed to act exactly as they want to, no matter if they're guys or girls or FTM or MTF or inbetween? Or are "real" gay men just the ones who seem like "real men" other than getting it on with other guys?

Personally, I would take a "new age" metrosexual straight guy over a macho "real man" ten times out of ten.

It's worth it to think about our gender stereotypes. Since they're just that, stereotypes, and stereotypes are the bane of most queer people's lives.

goratrix

13th Apr 2005, 12:20 PM

joeyconnick

13th Apr 2005, 02:48 PM

I am not talking about a stereotype, I am just saying I, PERSONALLY, find it quiet annoying when guys act like a drag queen. It's just the way I am, I hate people that try to get attention by doing stuff like that. I don't judge then for being girly... I, actually, am quiet sensitive and my closest friends are as well (though not gay... DAMN!).

Oh, anyway... I guess it's all just a matter of opinion... and I don't like to argue about it... So I guess I'll just leave it at the fact that I stand by the fact that everyone MUST be free to do as they please.
Okay, that seems a lot more reasonable to me. If someone is acting a certain way to attract attention for the sake of attention, yeah, I can definitely agree that it's super-annoying. But I think there's a difference between having issues with attention hounds/whores than with non-butch gay guys.

goratrix

13th Apr 2005, 09:26 PM

As I said, i'm one of those non-butch gay guys. And the ones I can't stand are the attention whores. Still, I don't mind what they do. They are free to do it... I have my own problems to focus on... XD

Zaurak

24th Apr 2007, 05:52 PM

well, we have to take into account that when we come out we sometimes have no other option than to just be friends with girls. I moed right before my senior year and I decided it was tine to be completly out and I was. But b/c I was nea and gay, only girls would talk to me. I missed, and still do, my guy friends soooo much, no offence to girls, but seriously; one thing after another, non stop. I miss the sex jokes, the imaturuty, and the bond between us. I really can't stand the drama and the bickering and gossip, seriously, shut the hell up.

GuitarGirl1350

24th Apr 2007, 08:22 PM

I seem to be the only girl posting here, so for what it's worth:
Yeah, I hate the stereotypes too. a stereotypical lesbian is butchy, short hair, guy's clothes, no make up, etc. As far as I'm concerned, I'll wear and act how I like. I've run into people who think it's impossible for someone who DOESN'T fit the stereotype to be gay. As for people who are the stereotype, they're free to do what they wish. No matter how butch or femme you are, and if you're straight or gay, you are a human being.
I think I'm halfway in the middle of the stereotype. I wear some guys clothes but not to a level where I don't own girl clothes. I like ties and converse. I wear dickies shorts and skulls everywhere. Most of my friends are guys. I proudly participate in burping competitions. I like cars, racing, video games, and tinkering with bikes, cars, and electronics. Conversely, I always wear make up. I shower daily. I love empire waists and heels. I'm a camera whore. I love shopping and gossip. I'm an emotional wreck when I PMS. I have my girly issues.
Stereotypes are nothing. They're a false perception by a certain group of people who spread it as reality.
As I said before, people are free to do as they please. If being a flamboyant limp-wristed queer boi works for you, ROCK IT. If being an agressive butchdyke fits you, ROCK IT. Yeah, it bothers me when the flammy kid gets called a fag or the butch gets avoided in the locker room- but if they are comfortable with it, who cares? There will always be certain individuals who enforce the stereotype, even when the group as a whole does not. Take for example, the stereotype that fat people are lazy. Yes, some fat people are lazy. Some are not. Some work very hard in life and achieve great things. Some asians are geniuses and some are dumb as doornails. Not all black girls have rhythm, while some are incredibly good dancers. People are people, regardless of whatever we label them (and therefore stereotype them) as.