Chat Room Abuse

[Paul_UK]

It has been bought to my attention that a few members are abusing the chat room facility, by using someone else's name or by having several windows/tabs open with different names in them.

The chat room was set up as an experiment, as a useful extra facility. I thought people here were sensible and responsible enough to use it properly and not to impersonate other members or use multiple names.

Since most of the posts about the chat room are grumbles (either about the software or the lack of use) and we now have reports of abuse, I will be discussing the future of the facility with the other moderators.

While this discussion continues the chat room has been disabled. I will reply here when we have decided what to do about it, but I think it is likely to be removed.

[Steam Giant]

I trust you guys to make the right decsition, but I'd also like you to know that despite my qualms about the chat software, I've had some stellar coversations with other members using the chatroom ^^ it can be kind of intimidating to send someone a PM, and not everybody has an instant messaging program, but the chatroom allowed me to get to know certain members better than I otherwise would have.

In the end, I'll be happy with whatever you guys decide, because you know what's best for us, and I trust you ^^ I just wanted to make sure that all sides of the situation were represented.

[SpikySpice]

Well, the chat room was abused because the wrong way it was setting up, because the sign on machine working not the right way.

If we have chnaged the way the chat room let us sign in to chat, it would cause no problem. Iff the chatroom only let us signed in with our EC member name, we cant use others or cant type an unxist name. Like I'm SpikyPice and i can type bdirghguiguir, it still let me in, or jsut 3 dots ...

Even tho the chatroom has some down side, but if we manage to amke it alright, it'll be a fun place for us to talk and keep the connection, easier than sending PMs

[Paul_UK]

My thought is that it can't be put back as it is.

Ideally we would want one that ties in with the EC membership database, but that isn't going to happen because they are on different servers in different countries.

So if we do have a chat room again, it needs to be one with its own membership system. Then people can register their own usernames. This would also mean that if someone does register someone else's name we would detect it fairly easily from the IP addresses at the two sites. This should also prevent people logging in as more than one person (again it could be detected from IP addresses).

Such software would need to be bought though, whereas Blab Lite is free. I am not bothered about spending a few tens of dollars on chatroom software if it is the right one and if it won't be abused. If Blab Lite worked OK for most people then the next one up in the Blab range would have been an obvious choice. But several people don't seem to like Blab......

This means that research is needed to find a suitable product to purchase and use. Whatever I choose there will be some people who won't like it.

It has to work in a web browser with no extras (flash, java etc) installed. It must not reload the screen every few seconds as that's annoying (so it needs to use AJAX). And it must have a membership system with IP address tracking. Blab (not the lite version) should do that, but....

Let's see what materialises here and in the mods discussion in the next few days, then maybe I'll have a look at the weekend.

[Paul_UK]

Well, the chat room was abused because the wrong way it was setting up, because the sign on machine working not the right way.

If we have chnaged the way the chat room let us sign in to chat, it would cause no problem. Iff the chatroom only let us signed in with our EC member name, we cant use others or cant type an unxist name. Like I'm SpikyPice and i can type bdirghguiguir, it still let me in, or jsut 3 dots ...

The problem is that Blab Lite does not have any sort of sign in system. It's the basic freebie version which does let you use any name you like (as long as nobody else is using that name at that time). It's nothing to do with how it's set up - that is just how it is.

The non-free version does use a proper system where people sign up and then log in with a username and a password. That costs money, which isn't a big deal. It doesn't link to the forum database though, so you would still need to sign up at the chatroom.

Going for the non-free version of Blab would be a simple fix. However several people complain about Blab or don't like it, so I don't know whether it is a good idea or a waste of money. :(

[Kimi]

It is very sad and very very disappointing that there are people who abuse our chat room...but unfortunately it is what it is I guess...
I won't complain about whatever you guys decide Paul:icon_wink

If I don't like the new chat room system then I'll blame people who abused chat room:tantrum::tantrum:

[SpikySpice]

Ok Paul, I understand

For last month, we already checked out both version in this thread. Today I went back and read it and , not many reply there, the last time I already checked out the other version (tho now the link is disable), I think it was ok , too, tho except the blinking thingi

So let's wait for what people will say, and waht the Mods will decide.

So how many people already complain about this? And when did they start to complain?

Well, if not too many people complain, and not too much trouble, you wouldnt have to delete the chatroom:bang:

[Dantir]

Those features that are to be looked for won't be hard to find. I'm sure there are plenty of forums that long for those kinds of chatrooms so someone out there will have made one. :D

Personally I don't use the chat room, but I would like to use it eventually. It's also a lot more impersonal than adding each other to chatting clients seeing as people like to keep their contact list secure of people they know and not a huge list of "wHo r U agen???"

[joeyconnick]

It has to work in a web browser with no extras (flash, java etc) installed.I still think that's overkill on your part, and you're (still) presenting it as if it's an unavoidable, "natural" requirement, when of course it isn't--you've unilaterally decided that's what's required.

I don't like Blab all that much but if you are going to insist on no Flash, no Java, then it sounds like the non-free Blab would be the easiest solution. And part of my issue with Blab Lite was the lack of any kind of user database, so that at least will be handled.

Does the for-pay version work any faster? Because that was definitely an annoying thing... the lag between typing and the message being sent and received was pretty noticeable. I suspect that might be the case with any AJAX-based chat, although maybe I'm wrong there.

[Jersey4Life]

I wish I could understand what your guys were saying, y'all are so smart:eusa_clap

[Steam Giant]

So if we do have a chat room again, it needs to be one with its own membership system. Then people can register their own usernames. This would also mean that if someone does register someone else's name we would detect it fairly easily from the IP addresses at the two sites. This should also prevent people logging in as more than one person (again it could be detected from IP addresses).

That sounds great ^^ you could also have a part in our member profiles that allows us to display the username we use in the chatroom, if it's different for some reason.

I know I'm one of the people who don't like blab, but honestly, if it allows us to talk with other people, it's good ^^ and it's great of you to provide it for us, no matter what you do decide to go with! If non-free blab is the best solution, I'd say to hell with the people who don't like it ^^ hehe. You've already offered, more than once, for others to suggest a better chat program. Nothing much you can do beyond that!

[xxAngelOnFirexx]

well i liked the old one because my mom didn't detect it when she gets e-mailed a list of all websites i go on. if you get another kind i might not be able to go on...

[joeyconnick]

well i liked the old one because my mom didn't detect it when she gets e-mailed a list of all websites i go on. if you get another kind i might not be able to go on...She gets emailed a list of all websites you go on? Scary! So how have you been able to avoid her finding emptyclosets, then?

[SadConfusedBandGeek]

It is very sad and very very disappointing that there are people who abuse our chat room...but unfortunately it is what it is I guess...
I won't complain about whatever you guys decide Paul:icon_wink

If I don't like the new chat room system then I'll blame people who abused chat room:tantrum::tantrum:

Tottally Agree

[boarder25]

Wow, that's really a shame. I'm sorry a few people had to ruin it for everyone else. I was looking forward to talking to you guys tonight. =/

[tinkerbell]

I liked the chat room. I'm slightly glum it's going away, however, if it needs to then it will. I hope a suitable alternative is found.

[Jersey4Life]

Don't know where I was all this time, but we have a chat room? Lol, oh well, I guess I won't miss what I didn't know existed.

[Paul_UK]

One point that has been raised in the discussion in the mods area is logging. Because the current chatroom software is unmoderated and does not keep any logs of access, conversations etc we had no way of knowing what's going on in there. So when there were the reports of problems that I mentioned in post #1 I had no way of checking things.

It would also be possible for example for someone "inappropriate" to use it to try to make contact with our younger members, and there would be no record of anything.

So whatever chat room replaces it must have full logging of conversations, IP addresses, times of login and logout, etc, etc. And the logs would need to be retained by the software for some time (months, not days). Of course we would not be looking at everything in the logs all the time, but if there were any concerns or problems bought to our attention we would have the information available.

We all agree that this is essential for the safety of members and to protect the site against possible legal issues.

[Paul_UK]

I still think that's overkill on your part, and you're (still) presenting it as if it's an unavoidable, "natural" requirement, when of course it isn't--you've unilaterally decided that's what's required.

I have set up a poll here (http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1934) to find out what level of access people have to the computers they use.

Once the results are in (I have set it to run for 8 days) we'll know where we are with this. :thumbsup:

I am not looking at which one gets the most votes though, I am looking at what proportion of the members would be affected, so we can find something that the vast majority will be able to use.

[Miaplacidus]

Firefox 2.0.0.4 allows Flash to be installed without administrator privileges, at least on Windows XP. One can even use Firefox Portable.

But I think we should set up Flash and Java test pages. There's a Flash 8+ test page I've set up for the magazine project (http://www.emptyclosets.net/magazine/flashtest/flashtest.html) with the corresponding poll here on EC (http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1923). You should set up a Java test page in my opinion, with another poll.

[Paul_UK]

I'd rather not use Java if it can be avoided (it is rather bloated and flaky), but if it proves necessary I will certainly set up some sort of test with a poll to see if people can use it.

The results of your Flash poll are very encouraging so far. If it continues like that it will mean I can look at some of the Flash based chatrooms, which would broaden the range of choices somewhat.

[Steam Giant]

...We all agree that this is essential for the safety of members and to protect the site against possible legal issues.

That's a good idea ^^ I'm glad that we're in good hands! Thanks for keeping us up-to-date, Paul!

[Paul_UK]

At least we know from this thread that enough people like the chat room and use it to make it worth the effort of replacing it with something better.

[Sugar]

yah i was definately sad to see that chat was down today :( I think it's a great option that allows us to get more interactive.

[Steam Giant]

Some new members made immediate use of the chatroom, too ^^ and with a few members who were frequently logged in, they were likely to get a welcome. I know personally, when searching for EC, I was specifically looking to chat, and not a forum. It just turns out I liked what I saw in the forum enough to join ^^

[SpikySpice]

As I counted, there were only 10 people who used the chatroom lately, 5 of them always used the chatroom, maybe more, tho, cuz i was not sitting here 24/7

[boarder25]

Yeah, I understand your hesitation to use java clients Paul, but IRC really would solve all of these issues. It keeps logs of all conversations and IPs permanently (until you delete them), it has optional usernames and passwords to prevent impersonation, you can have many different chat rooms on a single server, and there can be server administrators and channel operators to keep control of any chaos and take care of anyone severely breaking the rules or something.

Not to mention you don't have to use Java. There are many standalone programs (like xchat and mIRC) that one can download and log onto the IRC chatroom through those.

[Paul_UK]

Would anyone like to comment on FlashChat - there are a couple of demos here to look at http://www.tufat.com/script.php?script=chat

It does store transcripts of chats too, though I am not sure of the format etc. I have asked for clarification in their forum.

[Steam Giant]

Wow! I like it! Lots of extra features, like the ability to emote or PM other users, and no annoying refresh! Very cool, if everyone can use it ^^

[Kimi]

Some new members made immediate use of the chatroom, too ^^ and with a few members who were frequently logged in, they were likely to get a welcome. I know personally, when searching for EC, I was specifically looking to chat, and not a forum. It just turns out I liked what I saw in the forum enough to join ^^

I definitely noticed that too!! In fact, I have a friend who did exactly same thing:)

Would anyone like to comment on FlashChat - there are a couple of demos here to look at http://www.tufat.com/script.php?script=chat

It does store transcripts of chats too, though I am not sure of the format etc. I have asked for clarification in their forum.

I really liked the demos:thumbsup: It's got all what we need and some extra features too which is very nice:icon_bigg Especially I liked that there will be no stupid refreashing(!)
Though I didn't like the log-in page...I'm assuming it's a something you can change though I didn't mind that much since once you got in it's all good:thumbsup:

[Paul_UK]

From the results of Fred's Flash test I think almost everyone will be able to use it.

The blurb says it's customisable but my aim, at least initially, would be to get it installed and running rather than fiddling with it.

The price - $5 - is so cheap as to be irrelevant!

[Steam Giant]

Wow! I have $5 worth of change scattered across the floor of my room! ^^ That's a great deal, for what you get! Good find!

[Kimi]

5$!?!?! Sounds good to me!!

Great find Paul:eusa_clap

[SpikySpice]

Wow Paul, Flash Chat is looking incredibly awesome>_<

Hhhmmm, only 5 bucks^^

[Paul_UK]

I think I'll buy a copy of that tomorrow, then.... ;)

[SpikySpice]

ALRIGHT^^(!) (!) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

[Paul_UK]

I've got it. I'm going to install it tomorrow morning (it's now evening here and I'm too tired to think about it) - so it should be done no more than 15 hours from now.

[Kimi]

I've got it. I'm going to install it tomorrow morning (it's now evening here and I'm too tired to think about it) - so it should be done no more than 15 hours from now.

Cool:thumbsup:

I can't wait to use new chat room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe I better get some sleep now then:eusa_thin

[SpikySpice]

Alright Goob Job Paul

Thank You Very Very Very Much^^

[Steam Giant]

Awesome! If my computer were working, I'd be the first person there! I will visit, though, sometime tomorrow!

[darkness]

Thanks Paul you are awesome... tried the demos and it seems great...

[Miaplacidus]

I like it. Thanks, Paul!

[Paul_UK]

The new chat room is now set up. See this thread (http://emptyclosets.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1987) for more details.