I'm so confused...

[foxshe]

Ok, so I've read some of your posts and it seems really genuine. I am facing a problem that had never entered my mind. My name is Sheila, I am 23 and attend USF in Tampa. I have been with my boyfriend for 4 years and recently found out that he had a male lover. I am going to add the letter he wrote to me about this, but he also described a very close friendship with this other guy. we'll call my boyfriend Joe and his lover Moe. Joe has been really honest with me about this..... as far as i know. I feel like if he lied to me for the last four years he could lie to me about anything. I told him that i loved him enough to completely support him if he was gay. I said I would be there with him and not think bad of him. i dont think anyone should live a lie. Joe told me he would never hook-up with another man, and Moe was th only one. He offered to never talk to Moe again but I cant really make him do that. Joe has been my whole life for four years, but I know if he is gay that he cant lie forever. I want what is best for both of us. I love him with my entire self and i know he will always be close to me even if he does come out. But is it possible for a guy to have an affair with a man and not be gay? And is it the same as if he cheated on me with a girl? Joe says it isnt (and that Moe was the only time he cheated). It is definatey more than expirementing..but what is it!?!? Here is what Joe had to say:

hey baby, i miss u so much. i would give anything to be in your arms right
now. i am going to have so many romantic presents for u when i come back
home. i want to try to make up all this time where i haven't shown u i
love u enough. i think we can have a fulfilling relationship still and we
can work on being better people together. i will be honest with you and
if i catch myself telling half-truths or something i will correct myself.
damn...its hard typing with one hand. i dont know if i can write
everything that u wanted to talk about now..i ll try. its late and i took
my last percocets cause the pain is just un belieavble. well in case i
dont finish telling you about max i want to just tell u first that i dont
feel complete without u up here. when i go to bed something is missing.
even though i will work on going out more and being sociable, part of the
reason i never went out is because i was so satisfyed just spending time
with you. it is only with you that i can feel fully relaxed and happy.
when things are going well in our rel. and we are out to a movie, or
working on a model, going shopping, or even talking on the phone it is the
highlight of my day. i dont need max, or guys in general, or stupid
amber...ive been doing a lot of hard thinking about this and i only need
you, i only want you. i know u are hurt and scared about the max
thing...but please believe me it was for the wrong reasons and it never
felt right. if we can work on our trust and honesty issues, then u will
always know whatys going on in my head..and u can be sure that i wont do
anything with anybody else. im confident we can do this. i think we're
right for each other. part of the thing with max was a part of my growing
up that was unavoidable in some ways. it sounds cliche but it was a
experiment, that if anything at this point it reinforces that i am
supposed to and want to be with a girl. and that girl is you.
shit...i hear them downstairs so ishould probably go very soon. look
first, the thing with my neighbor was when i was seven years old. we
didnt really know what we were doing, we went down on each other. it
was his idea...i think i agreed because i wanted to know what it felt
like to(i dont know how else to say it) have my dick sucked. i wasn't
forced or anything and it was just that one time, and for like less
than five minutes. with max the first time i met him was when i was 18
and a senior...sara had broken up with me, i was into a lot of heavy
drugs..and i was very very lonely. i spent some time with him the
second half of that year...but we did stuff only a handful of times. he
woul buy me drugs...he had his own house..and i didn't care about the
world anymore..a large part of it was a way to disconnect and hide from
the world, from my normal friends. i dont think i could have done
anything if i wasnt completely obliterated and even then it was still
creepy. i felt at the time after sara and nicki that girlswere evil and
that i didn't have a good enough body, that i couldn't satisfy them.
that was part of it too. after high school...i only saw max a couple of
times all of college. i met you and besides all the normal spending
time and everything...the sex we had kinda snapped me out of it...it
was so good. the couple of times i saw max it felt worse than
ever...and he always just did stuff to me. i couldnt do anything else
it felt so wrong..and i think i felt normal again with u..i felt like i
could satiusfy u..i wasnt as depressed. the last time i saw max was in
november for like 10 mins. and he went down on me. thats it. he
pressured me and pushed me too i didnt even want to see him. please
dont let this stuff freak out too bad..u said u wanted the truth..and
im telling u all this so u know i am serious about us and our
relationship.
i really should go...write me back..i love u so much..u satisfy me better
than anyone EVER has...in every way. I love you.
-"Joe"

Okay so the other guy's name was MAX.....anyhow, Joe had surgery on his had and he is aways for the summer in NY. The Amber thing he referred to just adds more confusion, I found a "confession of love" letter to her that Joe said he never sent. God, can you believe that two months ago i had no idea about any of this at all! I can answer questions if you guys have them. i know this is long, im usually not that long winded but this is a big issue. I told Joe that i was posting this so if you guys have any advice for him feel free. thanks for your time and help!
<3, sheila :help:

[JonB321]

IMHO it's one thing that he had this side thing with Max for so long. I don't know what's going on with that. It sounds really shady. But wtf? he needed Amber also? This guy sounds selfish. Do you know what he'd probably do if you ever told him you were cheating? Especially with more than one person?!?!? and it's not like it was a purely physical thing, you found a love letter.... sort of like the one he sent you?

As for his sexuality. While the letter does sound somewhat sincere about his feelings, it has been my experience that it would be a lot easier for a gay guy to have sex with a girl, than for a straight guy to have sex with a man. Think about it. Society's been telling us all since we were fetuses that male/male sex is dirty and shameful. In order to get over that, you need to have some sort of desire to do it, I would think.

So anyway, I think if he is gay, stand by him and support him to whatever extent you feel comfortable (although, to be perfectly honest, he really screwed you over). If he's not, drop him. He's a cheating guy, and they don't change, and it's not Max, its Amber that shows you that he's just unfaithful.

[BaciListClostridium]

Hi, foxshe.

I do think it's possible for a guy to have an affair w/ a man and not be gay. Just as it's possible for a man to have an affair w/ a woman and be gay.

I think context is important here. Your boyfriend said he was extremely lonely, borderline depressed, and dependent on heavy drug use when he first started his physical relationship w/ Max. That's huge. I think intense loneliness can drive open-minded straight men into the arms of just about anyone, including a close male friend. In college, a friend of mine (a straight guy) was feeling really lonely over an extended period of time and was spending lots of time w/ his gay roommate, and the two of them ended up hooking up several times. I suppose it's possible that my friend is a repressed homosexual, but I doubt it. He was just really, really lonely and wanted to feel close to someone, and the most readily available person happened to be his male roommate.

Having said that, it's definitely possible that your bf is gay. I think it's awesome that you're being so supportive of him; chances are, if he is, in fact, gay, he won't feel as afraid to say it to you. Ultimately, I think it comes down to him. Has he seriously questioned himself on his sexual attraction to men, and has he answered those questions honestly? If so, and he believes he is straight, then it's a matter of you trusting him.

A more convoluted situation is possible. For example, perhaps your bf is attracted to men - and might identify as gay - but he has truly fallen in love w/ you. What then? This is not all about him; it's about your relationship too, and you might want to start thinking about your own expectations from him as a boyfriend.

Hope that helped at least a little. Good luck to you both!

[nisomer]

Hello foxshe,

I'm going to disagree with the other guys on this about him being gay. I don't think he could be really completely gay because he is so in love with you, and he talks about the sex part too, about how it was so "good". Many straight guys experiment with other people at times, and like motionmaker said, your boyfriend was also depressed, lonely, and used drugs, which probably affected what he was doing as well. I am basing my opinion off of how he always says he wants to be with you, that he loves you, and that you satisfy him more than anyone. So in that mind, would someone who is gay say something like that? Perhaps he is bi, but I would definalty say he not 100% gay.

Hope that has helped. Good luck. Oh and btw, who is this Amber girl??

[confusedkid]

So in that mind, would someone who is gay say something like that? Perhaps he is bi, but I would definalty say he not 100% gay.

Possible... but don't be so sure. Heh.

-CK

[foxshe]

Amber is a girl he used to sail with. I found a letter he wrote to her but never sent. it was a declaration of him wanting more than a friendship and possibly being in love. From what the letter said and my BF explanation i dont think he ever hooked-up with her. But i dont know what to believe anymore.

He says he has really thought about it and even if we broke up he would still date another girl. I just doubt everthing now. what if i decided to marry him and then find out he has this whole double life. I hate when society programs people to live a certain role, in any aspect of thier lives and i wont be a miserabe result of it. i just have so much time invested. :bang:

you guys have really been great. thank you for everything, its really refreshing to get other perspectives. please keep posting and feel free to see my web page or e-mail me. just see my profile.

<3, sheila :icon_wink

[joeyconnick]

Hi Sheila,

I don't really think the issue is his sexual orientation--either you trust that he's into you or you don't. And that's the main issue: trust.

As someone who has cheated on a boyfriend (or two), I like to think I know a little something about what leads someone to do that kind of thing. Joe's statements relating to self-esteem (not feeling good about his body, not thinking he could please women, etc.) ring a lot more true to me than protestations about being "pressured" and being under the influence of drugs. Being under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol is pretty much immaterial if you ask me because it's someone's CHOICE to ingest them, so really the issue becomes why did the person ingesting feel the need to ingest to the point where their inhibitions would be lowered enough to fuck up their relationship with someone? That is, it's what led up to the taking of drugs and/or alcohol that is the causative factor (in my personal opinion). And often yeah, that does equal low self-esteem or just general self-destructiveness.

Overall I thought Joe's letter rang somewhat false... too desperate and trying too hard to say the right things, although I guess if I'd fucked up a 4-year relationship I'd be a little desperate too. I understand what you mean about all that time investment but as you also indicate, ultimately if things are going to continue to be bad between you, you have to cut your losses and not worry over the time lost, because although it'll feel wasted, it won't actually end up being because you'll have learned a ton about relationships, what you want out of them, and what you're prepared to deal with in them.

So yeah, I personally think you need to decide whether you can rebuild your trust in Joe and whether he's worth trusting. As you say, between Amber and this Max guy, that's a lot to forgive/get over. I think people are capable of change, though, and maybe this is one of those times. Really only you can decide if you're willing to trust that it is, and in a strange way it's a win/win situation for you, even if things go south, because if they do, then you at least know you have it in you to forgive something pretty major, and if you decide against taking him back, well then you've also demonstrated a lot of moxie and a good understanding of your own personal boundaries.

Frankly, I would suggest some kind of provisional status for the two of you just to ensure he knows that things are not the same as before. Obviously it would be unfair to hold this over his head forevermore but I do think it's important to make a proper acknowledgment of the situation because if things just go right back to normal, I would guess it'll be harder for him to keep in mind he made two serious errors in judgment.

His offer to be more open, honest, and communicative does sound promising but it's got to be backed up with concrete actions. And you know, I don't think it can hurt to suggest couples counselling, more to ensure that the issues which ostensibly led to his cheating in the first place (low self-esteem, holding himself up to impossible standards) are actually getting dealt with. A lot of people are (understandably) sketchy about counselling but if you're both serious about trying to make things work, what can it hurt to try it out?

Hopefully that all sounds reasonable. As I started off by saying, in the end it's about trust and whether you believe what he's telling you. I don't think any reasonable person would blame you for ending things, though, and I don't think that would be homophobic--cheating is cheating, and while I think it might initially feel different if someone cheats on you with someone of unexpected gender, ultimately it's still cheating, and having a negative reaction to that is totally understandable. So don't feel guilty for feeling bad about his betrayal just because it was with a guy. You have a right to be upset, guy or girl.

I really need to get to bed but I hope some of what I've said is useful.

[foxshe]

Wow Joey, that was really insightful. The point you made about cheating being the same regardless of gender is exactly the point I made to my bf, your post just supported me! He denies this adamatley (sp?) along with the notion that he and Max had any kind of relationship (outside of being friends). But from the details of thier 'encouters' he obviousley describes one (ie: Max getting angry because Joe would'nt hold his hand, kiss, ect..).

I promised him that if he was honest about what happened that I would work through it with him. But I thought he had just hooked- up with Max once or twice, I had no idea they were so close and had a history. I mean, I've expirimented with members of my own sex and I would just be hypocritical to hold it against him.

But I'm realy having trouble leaving him. He is devestated at the idea of being without me..... I've never heard a guy cry so much. And of course I love him but I dont think I want to doubt the rest of my life.... and realistically if we work through this I think that is what im looking at. It is so easy to be stupid when you love someone.

Thanks again you guys!
Sheila

[JonB321]

I think you need to get rid of him, and find someone else. This about it, because of him, you are looking at a life standing outside the closet waiting for it to open. That sounds pretty awful to me. And I was just inside the closet waiting for it to open.

Life might seem scary without Joe. But you already doubt the healthy continued future of the relationship. Doesn't that say something?

[joeyconnick]

Hey Sheila,

Glad you found what I said helpful! Hope it all works out well for you... keep us posted.