joeyconnick
20th Dec 2005, 10:48 AM
imad suggested we move a discussion from another thread to a new one, since the original one had gotten somewhat off-topic:
I just wanted to provide an alternative experience: I became much more talkative and outgoing after coming out and most of the gay people I know didn't become or stay terribly unhappy. Not to say coming out was necessarily something they'd want to go through again but it wasn't this huge angst-fest that I see it painted as over and over again. My only point is that there is wide range of coming out experiences and the awful, terrible, difficult ones tend to get the most press. And I think, ultimately, that's not a good thing because then it reinforces the idea that being gay is a terrible, difficult thing. And frankly, at least for me, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And while it wasn't exactly easy, it was certainly worth the effort involved and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I think that most people do become more talkative and outgoing after coming out, also. I've just started actually coming out to people and (as I wrote before) that's been one of the biggest things which has helped me to be happier, more outgoing and such. I think coming out is great, but it's in that hiding period before you come out (perhaps after the questioning and realization period, or perhaps still questioning) where I hear over and over that the person's personality seems to change and they get reserved. Well, there's a simple explanation: in order to better hide your sexual orientation, it's easier to avoid conversations where sexuality plays a part (and it plays a part in many conversations of teens, even just as jokes).
I agree that most people probably become more talkative and outgoing after coming out; I was referring to the 'hiding', and possibly 'confused', stage. However, I disagree with saying that being gay is not difficult. It is difficult. However, I don't think it's "terrible".Well, I'll give you that the hiding part is pretty difficult but really, I don't think it always leads to personality changes like you're describing. If anything, I got involved in more conversations about sex and sexuality when I thought I was straight, to cover up what I was trying to deal with but I'm pretty sure overall my personality didn't alter radically.
And I'm not arguing that being gay is difficult for you or for a whole host of other people. But it's certainly not difficult for everyone, and certainly not to the "oh my gosh this is the most difficult thing about my life" level, which is how I think it gets portrayed a lot of the time. Sometimes it seems like people think being gay is the biggest challenge someone can ever face, which it really, really isn't. I think maybe it gets portrayed like that because the people we hear from the most about it are middle- to upper-class white guys and to a middle-class white guy, it's like "oh my god! I'm an oppressed minority now?" It's a huge loss of privilege if you happen to be in a group where there otherwise isn't much that's going to shake your worldview (and I say this, of course, as a middle-class white guy).
What I've been trying to get at all along is there are a host of different experiences of being gay (and coming out, and pre-coming out), some negative, some positive, some neutral. And there's a lot of relative-ness in a statement like "x is difficult." Sometimes just getting up in the morning is difficult. I take exception to this notion that being gay has to be difficult and is this kind of cross to bear for every gay person. I certainly don't wake up every morning and go, "Aw fuck, I'm still gay and therefore my life is going to be more of a struggle in x, y, and z ways."
Framing being gay as a difficulty just ultimately doesn't help you deal with it, mainly because it keeps it as something separate from who you are and really, it's about as unseparate as you can get.
Okay, maybe that's what I'm getting at: sure being gay can be difficult. As can being non-white in Canada or the US, or a woman, or poor, or overweight, or an immigrant, etc. But if you frame that part of yourself that results in whatever difficulty you face as an obstacle to be overcome--which I think is often what happens when people come out: they treat being gay as this thing that has happened to them or been inflicted upon them--then I think you're compartmentalising who you are in an artificial and unhealthy way. Being gay isn't something that happens to someone; it's something that someone just is. Homophobia and heterosexism are what happens to people, not being gay. It's certain people's reactions to what and how people are that's the problem, not how and what people are in and of themselves.
Maybe that seems like it's a silly distinction but I think it's really the crux of the matter.
I just wanted to provide an alternative experience: I became much more talkative and outgoing after coming out and most of the gay people I know didn't become or stay terribly unhappy. Not to say coming out was necessarily something they'd want to go through again but it wasn't this huge angst-fest that I see it painted as over and over again. My only point is that there is wide range of coming out experiences and the awful, terrible, difficult ones tend to get the most press. And I think, ultimately, that's not a good thing because then it reinforces the idea that being gay is a terrible, difficult thing. And frankly, at least for me, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. And while it wasn't exactly easy, it was certainly worth the effort involved and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I think that most people do become more talkative and outgoing after coming out, also. I've just started actually coming out to people and (as I wrote before) that's been one of the biggest things which has helped me to be happier, more outgoing and such. I think coming out is great, but it's in that hiding period before you come out (perhaps after the questioning and realization period, or perhaps still questioning) where I hear over and over that the person's personality seems to change and they get reserved. Well, there's a simple explanation: in order to better hide your sexual orientation, it's easier to avoid conversations where sexuality plays a part (and it plays a part in many conversations of teens, even just as jokes).
I agree that most people probably become more talkative and outgoing after coming out; I was referring to the 'hiding', and possibly 'confused', stage. However, I disagree with saying that being gay is not difficult. It is difficult. However, I don't think it's "terrible".Well, I'll give you that the hiding part is pretty difficult but really, I don't think it always leads to personality changes like you're describing. If anything, I got involved in more conversations about sex and sexuality when I thought I was straight, to cover up what I was trying to deal with but I'm pretty sure overall my personality didn't alter radically.
And I'm not arguing that being gay is difficult for you or for a whole host of other people. But it's certainly not difficult for everyone, and certainly not to the "oh my gosh this is the most difficult thing about my life" level, which is how I think it gets portrayed a lot of the time. Sometimes it seems like people think being gay is the biggest challenge someone can ever face, which it really, really isn't. I think maybe it gets portrayed like that because the people we hear from the most about it are middle- to upper-class white guys and to a middle-class white guy, it's like "oh my god! I'm an oppressed minority now?" It's a huge loss of privilege if you happen to be in a group where there otherwise isn't much that's going to shake your worldview (and I say this, of course, as a middle-class white guy).
What I've been trying to get at all along is there are a host of different experiences of being gay (and coming out, and pre-coming out), some negative, some positive, some neutral. And there's a lot of relative-ness in a statement like "x is difficult." Sometimes just getting up in the morning is difficult. I take exception to this notion that being gay has to be difficult and is this kind of cross to bear for every gay person. I certainly don't wake up every morning and go, "Aw fuck, I'm still gay and therefore my life is going to be more of a struggle in x, y, and z ways."
Framing being gay as a difficulty just ultimately doesn't help you deal with it, mainly because it keeps it as something separate from who you are and really, it's about as unseparate as you can get.
Okay, maybe that's what I'm getting at: sure being gay can be difficult. As can being non-white in Canada or the US, or a woman, or poor, or overweight, or an immigrant, etc. But if you frame that part of yourself that results in whatever difficulty you face as an obstacle to be overcome--which I think is often what happens when people come out: they treat being gay as this thing that has happened to them or been inflicted upon them--then I think you're compartmentalising who you are in an artificial and unhealthy way. Being gay isn't something that happens to someone; it's something that someone just is. Homophobia and heterosexism are what happens to people, not being gay. It's certain people's reactions to what and how people are that's the problem, not how and what people are in and of themselves.
Maybe that seems like it's a silly distinction but I think it's really the crux of the matter.