Predatory Older Men

[davo-man]

I was just wondering if this sterotype is true; that older gay men are predatory in nature and prey on younger gay men? Obviously there will be some, but is there truth in this stereotype, or it just another stereotype created by the media?

[Level N Human]

'Course not. Stereotypes are baised, narrowly focused, surface observations.

Besides, most child molesters (who molest both other-sex and same-sex children) are heterosexual, but this doesn't even mean anything because most people are heterosexual.

[Ty]

Agreed, but people are more cautious of older gay men

[surfrboykai]

'Course not. Stereotypes are baised, narrowly focused, surface observations.

Besides, most child molesters (who molest both other-sex and same-sex children) are heterosexual, but this doesn't even mean anything because most people are heterosexual.

he's not talkin about child molestors (i don't think...)

my take on what he said is this: in my experience, a lot of older men have sexually harrassed me, and have done everything short of forcing themselves on me to get in my pants. well, that one guy did thrust his crotch in my face...

[Jeimuzu]

Some of them. I honestly think this'll change, though. Most of them will have grown up in certain conditions, when they had to suppress their nature. They never got a chance to fool around with each other when they were still young, and now they're jealous, I think, and want to use young gay men to make themselves feel young again.

Or something. Just a theory.

[Paul_UK]

From what I have seen here with the few people we have had to evict and things people have discussed, I would say that a few older gay men do prey on younger guys. It's a minority, but significant enough to be aware of.

The problem we have here at EC is that some older guys may pretend to be younger in order to get into conversations with younger guys, maybe with a view to meeting them in due course. Some are easy to spot and are immediately banned, however others are more difficult and it comes down to looking for inconsistencies in what they say, in the photos they post, etc. We are constantly watching, and usually have one or two members in our sights. If anyone is suspicious about another member (whether something specific or things that just don't seem quite right) please let me or one of the mods know so we can look in more detail.

In gay clubs, where the atmosphere is different and the clientèle tends to be more people who are looking for sex, the sight of a cute young guy will have many older guys drooling. That is not a representative sample of the gay population though, but it is the things that happen at these places that stereotypes are formed from.

I don't think overall it is any worse than with straight guys. Some older straight guys will be after younger girls but the majority won't.

I'm sure you've all heard it before, but if you are meeting someone in person for the first time, no matter how well you think you know them online, always arrange to meet somewhere public. In a shopping centre or something is good as there will be lots of people around and you can agree a specific place and time. The first meeting should remain somewhere public (have a burger or a coffee together) and should not involve alcohol.

[Paul_UK]

Some of them. I honestly think this'll change, though. Most of them will have grown up in certain conditions, when they had to suppress their nature. They never got a chance to fool around with each other when they were still young, and now they're jealous, I think, and want to use young gay men to make themselves feel young again.

Or something. Just a theory.

That's interesting, and sort of fits in with a theory of mine. I think when some (not all) people come out later, say mid 20s onwards, they seem to lose the years between their late teens and coming out. So someone coming out at say 30 may be more interested in guys in their mid-late teens, and as he gets older this 12-15ish year age gap between him and who he is attracted to remains.

I came out when I was 26 and this seems to fit with me. When I first came out I found teenagers very attractive. Now I am generally attracted to guys who are in their late 20s to mid 30s rather than nearer my own age.

Back when I was a teenager things were very different to today. Homosexuality was not generally acceptable, the age of consent in the UK was 21 (and very restrictive even then). It is easier now. Not easy, but easier.

[gabriel1]

I was just wondering if this sterotype is true; that older gay men are predatory in nature and prey on younger gay men? Obviously there will be some, but is there truth in this stereotype, or it just another stereotype created by the media? I do believe there is some truth in ANY stereotype. As for this one about older gay men, I personally do not "prey" on younger guys, simply because I feel what the heck would they want with an "old bugger" ? I think any older guys who force their attentions on younger guys either refuse to believe they are over a certain age or think they are a gift, which to me is a crock. I do believe it happens and with more frequency than we know. Some people simply do NOT know how to take NO for an answer.

[surfrboykai]

That's interesting, and sort of fits in with a theory of mine. I think when some (not all) people come out later, say mid 20s onwards, they seem to lose the years between their late teens and coming out. So someone coming out at say 30 may be more interested in guys in their mid-late teens, and as he gets older this 12-15ish year age gap between him and who he is attracted to remains.

i'm not understanding how that works...

[Miaplacidus]

I have a much older friend (in his seventies) whom I love very much. He has always been really nice to me (in fact, if I'm typing on this computer it's because he gave it to me as a gift) - and he has never, ever said or done anything inappropriate. I highly doubt he would ever. Considering those he has been with, I think I'm too young for him (he's more attracted to guys 40 and older, and he knows he isn't my type)

So, not everyone is like that. Yes, I've had some older guys make moves on me, but nothing really serious.

[gabriel1]

That's interesting, and sort of fits in with a theory of mine. I think when some (not all) people come out later, say mid 20s onwards, they seem to lose the years between their late teens and coming out. So someone coming out at say 30 may be more interested in guys in their mid-late teens, and as he gets older this 12-15ish year age gap between him and who he is attracted to remains.

i'm not understanding how that works...

I think what he might be trying to say is that those of us who came out at or after 24-25 yrs old, have somehow not gotten past the years prior (18-24)to that in our minds. Mind you this is more than likely an exception rather than not, but I know a few men around my age (50) who are either in relationships with men that are in their 30s or pursuing men in their late 20's to late 30's.


I came out when I was 26 and this seems to fit with me. When I first came out I found teenagers very attractive. Now I am generally attracted to guys who are in their late 20s to mid 30s rather than nearer my own age.


Same here - Whereas those people I know that came out or never had to come out but were always known, tended to have either settled in with someone closer to our own ages or pursue those in the Mid 40's to 50's range.

I hope this makes some sense..

[joeyconnick]

That's interesting, and sort of fits in with a theory of mine. I think when some (not all) people come out later, say mid 20s onwards, they seem to lose the years between their late teens and coming out. So someone coming out at say 30 may be more interested in guys in their mid-late teens, and as he gets older this 12-15ish year age gap between him and who he is attracted to remains.i'm not understanding how that works...I don't quite understand why the gap would remain as time progresses, but I think what Paul is talking about is commonly labelled "delayed adolescence." Basically, one of the major set of experiences someone goes through during adolescence is dating and learning how to form intimate/romantic relationships with people. If you are non-straight and in the closet during this period, you don't get to go through this (or at least you don't get to go through it with gender-appropriate people, which is pretty much the same as not going through it at all).

So then when you come out, whether it's at 20 or 30 or 40 or 50, you are effectively a super-newbie (aka in this case a teen) to relationships and sex, so you will often see people who come out later in life... well, let's call it "making up for lost time" and basically acting, sexually and relationship-wise, a lot more like they were in their teens than how you would expect someone who is 20/30/40/50/etc to act. I believe most of the people here who have come out later have expressed some variation of this effect.

Essentially, when you come out post-adolescence, no matter what your age, you are just really inexperienced in terms of relationships at that point. So you end up going through an adjustment period afterwards that can seem relatively weird from a mainstream view or even from your own point of view but if you think about it, makes perfect sense. And in a sense the notion of what type of person you're attracted to has probably been stuck at whatever it was in adolescence too because being in the closet involves just a *tiny* bit of denial and nothing stops personal development cold like denial.

But as for that continuing after a relatively time-limited period of adjustment? I think that is probably more to do with the complete youth fetishization that happens so frequently these days.

And with respect to the comment about what a young person might want with an "old bugger," I suspect in the gay context it's very similar to how it works in the straight context (i.e. with young women being attracted and interested in older men): stability, money, security, someone to look after them, the chance be with someone more experienced than you, etc. There is probably sometimes the sense that you are less likely to be left by someone significantly older than you, too.

I met a guy who was 20 a few months ago and he was into me and I was like, "Okay, what do you like about me?" and one of the things he said was that I had my life together. At which I had to laugh because I don't feel at ALL like my life is together on any number of fronts but I suppose to a 20yo who lives at home and is still in university that someone who has their own place and has a career (no matter who much he may or may not like said career) and knows generally what they want and don't want, it would seem like I'm very together.

Or you could simply have the revolutionary occurrence that you meet someone significantly older (or younger) than you and you just "click" with them for whatever reason. I have someone like that in my life and while I was hardly a teenager when we met, I was 26 and he was 46 and maybe that's not a big age difference at that point but my mum certainly thought it was since he was only 8 years younger than her.

I'm sure the mods here can't help but have a somewhat skewed view of the prevalence of predation just because EC would be a place where people who wanted to prey on young people would obviously frequent. Of course there's going to be a higher incidence of people with nasty motives trying to make use of EC than you'd be likely to encounter in the wider world. Kinda like you'd be more likely to find alcoholics in a bar, although perhaps that's not a fair analogy.

And however appropriate or inappropriate it may be of older guys to specifically seek out younger guys (I personally don't get those who EXCLUSIVELY seek out younger guys), there's a difference between wanting to date someone younger than you and being a "predator." Sometimes that's a simple legal distinction based on age of consent (which is not necessarily always a fair distinction if you ask me, because I don't really see anything inherently wrong with a 20yo dating a 17yo yet in a lot of jurisdictions, that would be statutory rape and you could argue the 20yo is a predator) and sometimes you could have a totally legal relationship where the older person is simply using or wanting to use younger people--"use" in the sense of not really caring about their feelings and not being interested in them for anything other than their youth. That's pretty predatory to me.

Then there's the point that should be made that really anybody can be preyed upon/taken advantage of, no matter what their age, so it's completely possible for someone younger to prey on someone older. If that sounds weird, consider the cases of younger men taking advantage of older women for their money. Sounds pretty predatory to me. Or younger women taking advantage of older men. Or really anybody attempting to elicit something valuable from someone else with no thought for the feelings of the other person.

So "predatory older (gay) men?" Sure, there are some. Is it true all the time, or even most of the time, which I think is what most people would think would make the stereotype valid? Not in my opinion--not even close. It's just a very popular stereotype, and very well-spread, and so it's hard to deconstruct or see past.

[mrrolemodel]

and then there are the younger guys like me who find themselves attracted to guys older than myself. i guess i like the maturity...
and when they flirt with me i do it right back.
i kinda provoke it i guess.
i mean, im not saying like... 40 year old + guys, but cute guys under the age of 30.

thats bad isnt it?

well. the last guy ive fallen for, and my first TRUE huge crush, was 23-24.
he wasnt single either.
but now he doesnt talk to me anymore...
i miss him so much.
[[oh and i suppose i should make this clearer, this guy was by NO MEANS predatory.]]

[budhead]

It's so not true.

I think most older men are attracted to a younger body as they are more beautiful, it's only natural. This doesn't make them a predator, it's just a preference. It's too bad that a few perverts have made the public cast older men in a bad light, creating this unfair predator stereotype. Most older men don't force themselves on the young. I rarely hear any news accounts either.

I don't think it's a problem, as most young people wouldn't accept advances made by an older person when there's lots of young people they can get. I'm pretty sure that their family and friends would convince them not to pursue a relationship with an older person, any way.

But there's more to a relationship than beauty and sex. I find that most people in their teens and 20's are hard to put up with, as they are shallow, emotional and far too hyper, this could be another stereotype?. There are good ones, of course. I know I wouldn't like meeting my 20 year old self now, I was so arrogant.

I've never had a relationship with a younger person, I only have my experience from working with them. They are nice to look at, but not to socialize with.

It's too bad that we all have to get old. Age discrimination is a real issue in our society and this is one form of it. You become invisible once you hit your 40's, which still seems young to me.

[hoping]

in my case its the other way around i seem to b only attracted to older guys, its like with the life experience and stuff like that. like there is this one guy and hes so damn hot and the age gap is well a bit over 10 years. but the thing is hes sexy smart and u can talk to him about anything. but i guess older guys just turn me on and well he is candian which makes it way more hotter

[joeyconnick]

It's too bad that we all have to get old. Age discrimination is a real issue in our society and this is one form of it. You become invisible once you hit your 40's, which still seems young to me.Oh if only it were over the age of 40 that people started treating others as invisible. I've known people who treated people over the age of 25 or 30 as invisible! And I don't think that's a gay thing, although in my case it's happened in a gay context but that's because... well, I'm gay. *grin*

I just think it's such a stupid attitude because if there is one thing we can all be certain of, it's that we're ALL getting older every second. Plus if someone is younger or older than someone else, that's the result of nothing more or less than pure random chance. No one who's younger than someone did anything themselves to MAKE themselves younger, and no one who's older than someone did anything themselves to MAKE themselves older. It's just chronological coincidence. Yet in variety of situations, people pride themselves on being older or younger than others, when really they had absolutely NOTHING to do with whether they're older or younger than those people. It's like priding yourself on having straight teeth or great cheekbones. Sorry: yes, you're lucky but no, it's not something you achieved or accomplished. Well not unless it involved braces or plastic surgery, at least.

[waitingsucks]

I really hav no personal experience but i settle on there being the amount as straight guys and that predetors do exist, ofcourse.

I think age doesn't have too much to do with it because there are predators of all ages. Maybe it's more noticable with older men.

[cavillor]

This is why I am going to stay fit as I age so that I never become the "gross old man."

[Cloud Nine 5]

Same with older straight men. It's not exclusive to us. I guess inside the community that stereotype probably comes from different reasons though like some people here said.

[Louise]

I don't think this is specific to the gay community, there are 'dirty old men' out there, always have been always will be.

I don't think it is a question of age especially but more of what joeyconnick said


Sometimes that's a simple legal distinction based on age of consent (which is not necessarily always a fair distinction if you ask me, because I don't really see anything inherently wrong with a 20yo dating a 17yo yet in a lot of jurisdictions, that would be statutory rape and you could argue the 20yo is a predator) and sometimes you could have a totally legal relationship where the older person is simply using or wanting to use younger people--"use" in the sense of not really caring about their feelings and not being interested in them for anything other than their youth. That's pretty predatory to me.

Then there's the point that should be made that really anybody can be preyed upon/taken advantage of, no matter what their age, so it's completely possible for someone younger to prey on someone older. If that sounds weird, consider the cases of younger men taking advantage of older women for their money. Sounds pretty predatory to me. Or younger women taking advantage of older men. Or really anybody attempting to elicit something valuable from someone else with no thought for the feelings of the other person...

For me the 'dirty old man' thing is a way weak people manage to prey on what could be percieved as 'weaker' people simply because they are not old enough or experienced enough to defend themselves as well as an older person. :angry:

[budhead]

Oh if only it were over the age of 40 that people started treating others as invisible. I've known people who treated people over the age of 25 or 30 as invisible! And I don't think that's a gay thing, although in my case it's happened in a gay context but that's because... well, I'm gay. *grin*

I just think it's such a stupid attitude because if there is one thing we can all be certain of, it's that we're ALL getting older every second. Plus if someone is younger or older than someone else, that's the result of nothing more or less than pure random chance. No one who's younger than someone did anything themselves to MAKE themselves younger, and no one who's older than someone did anything themselves to MAKE themselves older. It's just chronological coincidence. Yet in variety of situations, people pride themselves on being older or younger than others, when really they had absolutely NOTHING to do with whether they're older or younger than those people. It's like priding yourself on having straight teeth or great cheekbones. Sorry: yes, you're lucky but no, it's not something you achieved or accomplished. Well not unless it involved braces or plastic surgery, at least.

Well saidjoeyconnick.

It's so sad to think of how many excellent and nourishing relationships were never given a chance due to an age difference. In a lot of the cases, I'm sure that the relationship would have occurred but each person was afraid of how society would judge them. Soul mates are so hard to find, that's it's a shame we all get hung up on age. We're conditioned to.

We also pass up great people due to their looks because we're afraid of what our friends and family would say. It's a real shame. Relationships can only last if there's an emotional attachment, not just physical. I got teased at school when I dated a homely looking girl, but she was a fantastic person. I foolishly dropped her due to this stupid peer pressure. I really hurt her bad, and still deeply regret what I did to her. Same thing occurred when I dated a black girl. I was so foolish!

Yes, some of these older men should realize what a great pool of soul mates they are missing out on by just seeking out younger guys. They are discriminating against there own age group. Same goes for younger people avoiding older people.

We are such a shallow society! No wonder there's so many lonely people and it's so unnecessary.

There's a lot of hot older guys, Bruce Willis is one that I can think of. I leave a magazine with him on the front cover on my desk at work. It's his looks and personality that attracts me to him. He's hotter now than when he was younger! A younger person may discount him because they have their age discrimination blinders on.

[davo-man]

Oh believe me, I don't have my age blinders on when it comes to Bruce Willis, nor are they on when it comes to George Clooney

I personally think there needs to be a line drawn when it comes to dating people that aren't of the same age....Like not a blanket rule for all people, but I see it like this: People at different ages want different things, and even though a 20 year old and a 35 year old have everything in common, in 5 years the 40 year will be wanting to settle down (in most but not all cases) while the 25 year old one will be wanting to still be partying (in most but not all cases)

Also, in the long run, lets just say that the 15 year gap is extended into the future, then there would be a 60 yr old and a 45 yr old....the 60 would be thinking about retiring and stuff, while the 45 yr old would be just over the peak of his career

However, just remember that this is coming from an inexperienced 18yr old, and I could be totally wrong cos I dont have much world experience

...Anyway, the point is that even if people are soul mates, I personally think it would be difficult to date someone more than 15 years older than me

That said, Im sure there are going to be exceptions to this, and people who are more than 15 years different in age could get together and find happiness (Demi and Ashton hehe)...but I think that at some point there may need to be a line drawn

[Ty]

Yeah, different ages want different things....shame

[Paul_UK]

I personally think there needs to be a line drawn when it comes to dating people that aren't of the same age....Like not a blanket rule for all people, but I see it like this: People at different ages want different things, and even though a 20 year old and a 35 year old have everything in common, in 5 years the 40 year will be wanting to settle down (in most but not all cases) while the 25 year old one will be wanting to still be partying (in most but not all cases)

Also, in the long run, lets just say that the 15 year gap is extended into the future, then there would be a 60 yr old and a 45 yr old....the 60 would be thinking about retiring and stuff, while the 45 yr old would be just over the peak of his career

Reading Dave's post reminded me of a gay couple I used to know here. I don't know their exact ages but if I had to estimate I would say that one was in his 30s and the other was in his late 60s or early 70s. When I knew them they had been together for several years, and they were clearly a devoted couple (neither was "using" the other).

The sad thing was that the older man's ways had taken over the younger man. They both acted like a pair of older men, and not even particularly active older men. If you can imagine the elderly couples on holiday at the seaside or whatever, shuffling along the pavement and dressed alike, that's exactly what these two were like.

I don't know whether the younger one became "younger" again when they were apart because I never saw them apart. He worked at a nursing home caring for elderly people, so I doubt it.

I know that's away from the thread subject a bit, but to me it shows how a wide age-gap relationship can end up. I suppose you can say it worked, but I'm not so sure.

[Ty]

Reading Dave's post reminded me of a gay couple I used to know here. I don't know their exact ages but if I had to estimate I would say that one was in his 30s and the other was in his late 60s or early 70s. When I knew them they had been together for several years, and they were clearly a devoted couple (neither was "using" the other).

The sad thing was that the older man's ways had taken over the younger man. They both acted like a pair of older men, and not even particularly active older men. If you can imagine the elderly couples on holiday at the seaside or whatever, shuffling along the pavement and dressed alike, that's exactly what these two were like.

I don't know whether the younger one became "younger" again when they were apart because I never saw them apart. He worked at a nursing home caring for elderly people, so I doubt it.

I know that's away from the thread subject a bit, but to me it shows how a wide age-gap relationship can end up. I suppose you can say it worked, but I'm not so sure.


The story kinda made me feel quite sad.....=/

[LorenzG1950]

Predatory is defined in the dictionary as “characterized by plundering, robbing, or exploiting others.”

I’m sure that there are quite a few predators out there, both gay and straight, but I don’t think older gay men (like myself) are stereotypically “predatory” in their relationships with younger men.

Having come out at 56, I find myself attracted to younger men. My encounters began with someone who was 44, then 30, then 23, then 29. The 2 guys I’ve stuck with are 23 and 29. I’ve stopped there and been forced to think about what kind of a relationship I really want. As a few folks have already noted, a “non-trivial” age difference is subject to a critical eye by friends and relatives. My sister mentioned that my boyfriends look “so young”. And my boyfriend’s grandmother apparently thinks I’m pretty evil for going out with her grandson.

But the reason I’m attracted to younger men has less to do with age and more to do with common interests. In my former rock band, I was always the oldest, sometimes by 15 or 20 years. I was affectionately known as “Daddy Cool”. The age difference was never a factor. We also hung out and did what bands do (including sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll). At the time, I had no idea that I was gay.

Between my job and the band, I didn’t have time to associate with folks my own age, nor did I have very much in common with like-age co-workers (like playing golf, dinner parties, formal balls, etc.).

As my relationship(s) have developed, a few times I’ve had the feeling that I was the one being exploited and that my boyfriend was the predator. The thing is that I can afford to take them out and I have loaned both of them money. But I don’t want them to look at me like a bank or themselves as a call boy. Neither situation is conducive to a healthy relationship (whatever that is).

Davo-man has done the math and analysis quite well. When my 23-year-old boyfriend turns 46, I’ll be dead or 80. :eek: The 80 scares me more than death.

Needless to say, I don’t think marriage is on the horizon. But we are planning a vacation in Malta in November. I’m sure we’ll get a few looks as the “odd couple”. Doesn’t bother me.

And I have no fear that we'll end up like Paul's couple. At worst, I'll have a heart attack on the dance floor on some Sunday morning. :eusa_danc

[Kenko]

I was just wondering if this sterotype is true; that older gay men are predatory in nature and prey on younger gay men? Obviously there will be some, but is there truth in this stereotype, or it just another stereotype created by the media?

When you talk about young men, I'll assume you're not referring to pedophilia? Phedophiles are unrelated to homosexuality.

Certainly not true in all cases, but consider how often older men are attracted to young women.

From what I have seen here with the few people we have had to evict and things people have discussed, I would say that a few older gay men do prey on younger guys. It's a minority, but significant enough to be aware of.

The problem we have here at EC is that some older guys may pretend to be younger in order to get into conversations with younger guys, maybe with a view to meeting them in due course. Some are easy to spot and are immediately banned, however others are more difficult and it comes down to looking for inconsistencies in what they say, in the photos they post, etc. We are constantly watching, and usually have one or two members in our sights. If anyone is suspicious about another member (whether something specific or things that just don't seem quite right) please let me or one of the mods know so we can look in more detail.


I don't know if everyone appreciates all the hard work the mods put in behind the scenes keeping this place a safe place for all who visit. Something I think that's taken for granted. How many people have the mods banned for this behaviour?


In gay clubs, where the atmosphere is different and the clientèle tends to be more people who are looking for sex, the sight of a cute young guy will have many older guys drooling. That is not a representative sample of the gay population though, but it is the things that happen at these places that stereotypes are formed from.

I don't think overall it is any worse than with straight guys. Some older straight guys will be after younger girls but the majority won't.

I've seen a lot of old men ogling or hitting on very young ladies at general clubs.


That's interesting, and sort of fits in with a theory of mine. I think when some (not all) people come out later, say mid 20s onwards, they seem to lose the years between their late teens and coming out. So someone coming out at say 30 may be more interested in guys in their mid-late teens, and as he gets older this 12-15ish year age gap between him and who he is attracted to remains.

I think a lot of people, homosexual or not, find themselves attracted to people a few years younger than themselves.

[davo-man]

Oh no, I was discussing when an older man (say in his 50s to 60s) takes advantage of younger gay men (in the area of 18-21 but still over age), using the younger men as one night stands, emotionless sex...In other words, abusing the power they have because they are older...not so much paedophilia, but more like an older man cruising around in a club and harrassing younger men cos they feel they have a right to

[joeyconnick]

Oh no, I was discussing when an older man (say in his 50s to 60s) takes advantage of younger gay men (in the area of 18-21 but still over age), using the younger men as one night stands, emotionless sex...In other words, abusing the power they have because they are older...not so much paedophilia, but more like an older man cruising around in a club and harrassing younger men cos they feel they have a right toThat depends on what you mean by "harrassing." If you're at a club, you face the possibility of being hit on by people no matter what their age--that just goes with the territory. I don't think someone older hitting on someone younger represents harrassment; harrassment is when people hit on someone and then don't take a hint... or an outright rejection.

I think everyone, no matter what their age, has a right to hit on people at a club. Everyone also has a duty to be respectful about it, and to respect being turned down.

[joeyconnick]

Oh no, I was discussing when an older man (say in his 50s to 60s) takes advantage of younger gay men (in the area of 18-21 but still over age), using the younger men as one night stands, emotionless sex...In other words, abusing the power they have because they are older...One could also argue that in the context of a gay club, younger gay men ages 18 to 21 have quite a bit of power vs. older gay men.

And also, don't underestimate the capacity for people ages 18 to 21 to use people as one-night stands and emotionless sex. That's not something that's reserved for people 40+ or 50+ or whatever we're defining as older. True, there are a fair number of 18 to 21yos who seem to have this extremely idealised fairy tale notion of love and relationships but there's also a number who are, well, exceptionally shallow and self-centred, and who seem incapable of having anything more than one-night stands and emotionless sex. Or at least that's been my observation of people ages 18 to 21... and, come to think of it, of people in general.

That's pretty much the problem with generalisations: they have a nasty tendency to break down. You can just as easily argue the young want true love and to find "the one" because they're naive as you can argue the old want true love and to find "the one" because they're jaded and want to settle down. And you could claim the old don't have the capacity to form stable and loving relationships because they're too cynical, guarded, and have been hurt too often at the same time you could claim the young don't have the capacity to form stable and loving relationships because they're too inexperienced and busy figuring themselves out.

[joeyconnick]

Davo-man has done the math and analysis quite well. When my 23-year-old boyfriend turns 46, I’ll be dead or 80. :eek: The 80 scares me more than death.Yeah, but on the flipside, my experience has been there are precious few people I've met who I have any kind of connection with and I've come to believe I can't dismiss something real just because someone is non-trivially older or younger than me because there just aren't that many people out there who I "click" with, period. And yeah, perhaps projecting 23 years into the future makes the situation seem weird but the younger person could just as easily randomly predecease the older person years before the midlife-vs-octogenarian scenario occurred. Life is what happens while we're busy making other plans.

Maybe this is the undying optimist in me but I think if you find someone who you fit with, you owe it to yourself to try to make that work now, in the present, at this moment. The future will bring what the future will bring... we have no way of knowing for sure what that is.

Like... for instance, I was recently dumped by my boyfriend of 1.5 years. The common wisdom is that it's because at 23 and this being his first relationship and him having relatively recently come out, instead of trying to work through his issues with me and our relationship, he just hit the EJECT button out of panic. And, not being terribly naive, I can't lie and say I wasn't worried at the start that his inexperience with relationships might be an issue. And so I could have saved myself the absolutely horrific pain of being abandoned (in a really not terribly good way) by simply letting cons win out over pros when we first started dating. And I would have avoided the last 3 months (and many more to come, I'm sure) of heartbreak... and instead I would have had 1.5 years without him in my life, and I would have been even more utterly alone while facing the death of my mum, and... yeah. I would give a lot not to be in the situation I'm in now, but I wouldn't give up those 18 months with him. Because they were in their way the best months of my life and certainly the best months of my life in the last 6 or 7 years.

You don't get the joy without risking the sorrow. Having someone to love is one of the biggest joys we get a crack at, maybe the ONLY real joy there is, and so for me at least the specifics of how old I'll be compared to person A or B in X or Y years has become a lot less important than how I feel about person A or B.

[surfrboykai]

Having come out at 56, I find myself attracted to younger men.

i don't understand this. this has been said numerous times in this topic. it seems to me, in my opinion, that "coming out as a later age" is being used as a sort of excuse to like guys WAY younger

[LorenzG1950]

I wasn’t saying that my late coming out is the reason for my attraction to younger men. It just happens to be a fact up until now. I think maybe Paul is on the right track with his theory that folks who come out later in life might be trying to fill the dating gap they weren’t able to enjoy as teenagers. And since that big clock is always ticking, one might just prefer younger guys while they are still available. The older ones will always be there. For the record, it was the younger guys who hit on me in a gay club, not vice versa (except in the case of the 44-year-old :icon_redf ).

Without going into a deeper self-analysis, I just never grew up beyond 30 or 35. I love all kinds of music that folks my age don’t seem to understand. I’d rather go out partying than mow the lawn or wash the car. I’ve got a great job but I’m not interested in owning a house or having a big bank account. Maybe that would be different if I had found a life partner 20 years ago.

Most of the older folks I know just seem to be too boring, out of touch with politics and current events, or more concerned with health and retirement issues. Frankly, I’ve never hung out or had close friends that were around my own age (unless we go far, far back). For those reasons, I’m not going to be looking for someone my own age in a gay bar, certainly not if younger guys find me attractive or interesting. So joeyconnick is quite right when he says:

“Essentially, when you come out post-adolescence, no matter what your age, you are just really inexperienced in terms of relationships at that point. So you end up going through an adjustment period afterwards that can seem relatively weird from a mainstream view or even from your own point of view but if you think about it, makes perfect sense. And in a sense the notion of what type of person you're attracted to has probably been stuck at whatever it was in adolescence too because being in the closet involves just a *tiny* bit of denial and nothing stops personal development cold like denial.”

[LorenzG1950]

joeyconnick says it so nicely:

“Maybe this is the undying optimist in me but I think if you find someone who you fit with, you owe it to yourself to try to make that work now, in the present, at this moment. The future will bring what the future will bring... we have no way of knowing for sure what that is”

I couldn’t agree more :eusa_clap .

“but I wouldn't give up those 18 months with him. Because they were in their way the best months of my life and certainly the best months of my life in the last 6 or 7 years.”

That’s exactly the way I feel about the last 18 or 20 months :thumbsup: . I’ve had so many beautiful moments with my boyfriend that I would never want to miss. And he says I’ve helped him through a rough period in his life. What more can we want?

“You don't get the joy without risking the sorrow. Having someone to love is one of the biggest joys we get a crack at, maybe the ONLY real joy there is, and so for me at least the specifics of how old I'll be compared to person A or B in X or Y years has become a lot less important than how I feel about person A or B.”

Here, here!

[joeyconnick]

Having come out at 56, I find myself attracted to younger men.

i don't understand this. this has been said numerous times in this topic. it seems to me, in my opinion, that "coming out as a later age" is being used as a sort of excuse to like guys WAY youngerYou say this as if there's something inherently wrong or dirty about older guys finding younger guys attractive.

Look, I'm not so old that I don't remember uncomfortable run-ins with older guys at bars and clubs who were decidedly creepy. But I do have enough friends who are gay guys who are 40+ or in their 30s like me to know that not all gay guys past a certain age are like that.

It would be insane for older guys in our society NOT to be attracted to youth (whether younger men or younger women), pretty much like it would be insane for ANYONE in our society not to be attracted to youth given how often we're told that youth is where it's at. There's a difference between being attracted to someone and then pursuing them in an exploitative way. There's also a difference (in my mind at least) between being attracted to youth and being ONLY attracted to youth.

I won't lie and say I don't find some 18 or 19yos attractive physically. I mean, like duh. But that doesn't mean I think they're good relationship material and it certainly doesn't mean I'm going to stalk them in a bar or club. And in this respect, I don't think I'm unique.

When I meet younger people who are seemingly without exception afraid of older people or older people finding them attractive, I always wish I could check back with them in 20 years and see what they think about "older people" then, given that they would then be "older people." My experience has been that there is not some switch that goes off during the course of ageing that suddenly makes one unattracted to younger people.

[William]

Having come out at 56, I find myself attracted to younger men.i don't understand this. this has been said numerous times in this topic. it seems to me, in my opinion, that "coming out as a later age" is being used as a sort of excuse to like guys WAY younger

I think that's a bit nasty to older guys. Like Joeyconnick said, why is it bad that some older guys might like some younger guys? And like why do they need an excuse to like younger guys? We all like who we like, and why do we have to explain it? I had an older guy sort of interested in me once, and I was really flattered that he wanted to talk to me. Like most grownups just want me to go away and not bother them.

And when I was worried about what that guy wanted, everyone here, but especially the older guys, helped me heaps. So I don't think anyone should diss people just coz there older. I know your not trying to do that, but like maybe some older guys here could get hurt by what you said.

[Bromptonrocks]

Well said William.

Totally agree with you. :thumbsup:

[Tom]

im gona say again, if there are older guys interested in younger guys then its perfectly normal for someone to want the best looking guy around, wich wud hapen to be a younger guy normally. i know afew amazin older guys tht have never said/done anythin tht makes me assume tht all they want is to have sex or w/e, they just want to talk and be themselves. if the ppl the same age as them either dont understand/are way 2 boring for the older guys then they will go for younger guys 2, why should it be that older guys have 2 just sit there and do nothing or talking when they want to be out enjoying themselves and with a younger guy theres a greater chance of tht happening.

[surfrboykai]

Having come out at 56, I find myself attracted to younger men.i don't understand this. this has been said numerous times in this topic. it seems to me, in my opinion, that "coming out as a later age" is being used as a sort of excuse to like guys WAY younger

I think that's a bit nasty to older guys. Like Joeyconnick said, why is it bad that some older guys might like some younger guys? And like why do they need an excuse to like younger guys? We all like who we like, and why do we have to explain it? I had an older guy sort of interested in me once, and I was really flattered that he wanted to talk to me. Like most grownups just want me to go away and not bother them.

And when I was worried about what that guy wanted, everyone here, but especially the older guys, helped me heaps. So I don't think anyone should diss people just coz there older. I know your not trying to do that, but like maybe some older guys here could get hurt by what you said.

well, i'm glad you've good experiences. there are two reasons why i see it as "slightly" wrong. yes, while it is normal to be attracted to youth, a 50 year old and an 18 year old are at two different places in life. another thing is like, while there are some older men that genuinely care about their younger boyfriend, most of them take advantage of their younger mate. and as sad and pathetic as it is, you can't deny it.

so like, if an older man does genuinely care about his younger boyfriend, more power to him. i'm just sayin that they're at different places in life.

[joeyconnick]

another thing is like, while there are some older men that genuinely care about their younger boyfriend, most of them take advantage of their younger mate. and as sad and pathetic as it is, you can't deny it.Take advantage of them in what way? Wouldn't it be just as easy to think the younger party is taking advantage of the older party for their money?

And I'm interested in what information you're privy to that lets you make such a sweeping generalisation that is so undeniable. If you're going to say "some people <blank>," that's extremely hard to refute. But if you're going to say "most people <blank>," you'd better have some pretty good evidence to back up your claim. And saying "you can't deny it" doesn't count as evidence.

[surfrboykai]

Take advantage of them in what way? Wouldn't it be just as easy to think the younger party is taking advantage of the older party for their money?

the older person has a "hot young thing" to flaunt. it happens countless times, in both the gay and straight worlds.

[mrrolemodel]

im still not sure how thats 'taking advantage'?

the younger guy must have SOME reason for being in the relationship...

[gabriel1]

Take advantage of them in what way? Wouldn't it be just as easy to think the younger party is taking advantage of the older party for their money?

the older person has a "hot young thing" to flaunt. it happens countless times, in both the gay and straight worlds.

And by that same token kai, the "hot young thing" might be getting supported very very well.... But let's face it, if two people are using each other or one is using another that sucks. There are probably more "may/december" couples out there that ARE REALLY in love, and care deeply for each other.

[surfrboykai]

Take advantage of them in what way? Wouldn't it be just as easy to think the younger party is taking advantage of the older party for their money?

the older person has a "hot young thing" to flaunt. it happens countless times, in both the gay and straight worlds.

And by that same token kai, the "hot young thing" might be getting supported very very well.... But let's face it, if two people are using each other or one is using another that sucks. There are probably more "may/december" couples out there that ARE REALLY in love, and care deeply for each other.

yer right that some young guys also take advantage of older guys. either way i think it's sad. but whatever, i'm always wrong

[gabriel1]

Take advantage of them in what way? Wouldn't it be just as easy to think the younger party is taking advantage of the older party for their money?

the older person has a "hot young thing" to flaunt. it happens countless times, in both the gay and straight worlds.

And by that same token kai, the "hot young thing" might be getting supported very very well.... But let's face it, if two people are using each other or one is using another that sucks. There are probably more "may/december" couples out there that ARE REALLY in love, and care deeply for each other.

yer right that some young guys also take advantage of older guys. either way i think it's sad. but whatever, i'm always wrong
Nooooo, you're not always wrong, you present a good discussion. I'm not saying you're wrong. Your point of view is read and respected.

[surfrboykai]

Your point of view is read and respected.

no, not by everyone here. some people always tear down any point of view i hold.

[Bromptonrocks]

Your point of view is read and respected.

no, not by everyone here. some people always tear down any point of view i hold.

Hey Kai,

Sorry if you think some people are tearing you down. Earlier in this thread, I endorsed William's post. My comments were based on what you'd said up to that stage. Since then you've qualified what you meant and it presents a diferent meaning to your earlier posts.

It's difficult to always convey true meaning in posts and sometimes we can post back without fully understanding what is meant by the original post.

Don't take it personally. No offence is intended. And for the record, by far most of your posts that I've read have added a valued contribution. Keep it up.

[surfrboykai]

Your point of view is read and respected.

no, not by everyone here. some people always tear down any point of view i hold.

Hey Kai,

Sorry if you think some people are tearing you down. Earlier in this thread, I endorsed William's post. My comments were based on what you'd said up to that stage. Since then you've qualified what you meant and it presents a diferent meaning to your earlier posts.

It's difficult to always convey true meaning in posts and sometimes we can post back without fully understanding what is meant by the original post.

Don't take it personally. No offence is intended. And for the record, by far most of your posts that I've read have added a valued contribution. Keep it up.

what do you mean?

EDIT: also, i didn't direct that post about tearing me down at you brah. there's a certain someone on this site that seems to enjoy tearing people down. it's one thing to criticize, but this dude likes to rip them apart brah

[Bromptonrocks]

Your point of view is read and respected.

no, not by everyone here. some people always tear down any point of view i hold.

Hey Kai,

Sorry if you think some people are tearing you down. Earlier in this thread, I endorsed William's post. My comments were based on what you'd said up to that stage. Since then you've qualified what you meant and it presents a diferent meaning to your earlier posts.

It's difficult to always convey true meaning in posts and sometimes we can post back without fully understanding what is meant by the original post.

Don't take it personally. No offence is intended. And for the record, by far most of your posts that I've read have added a valued contribution. Keep it up.

what do you mean?

EDIT: also, i didn't direct that post about tearing me down at you brah. there's a certain someone on this site that seems to enjoy tearing people down. it's one thing to criticize, but this dude likes to rip them apart brah


I know you weren't directing that post at me and I didn't know you were directing it at someone specific.

What I meant is you posted a comment about older men always seeming to use the excuse for coming out late as a reason for going after younger guys. I guess it was a general comment but without the posts that you made following that one it was difficult to know fully where you were coming from.

That's all I mean. Sorry if you're taking it the wrong way but as I've said, it's not always easy (for me and most people) to convey exactly what we mean unless we write an enormously long post!!

Regards.

[surfrboykai]

thanks brah! it's not directed at him specifically, but it is haha. like, it's a general statement, and it's also singling one person out. i think you prolly know who i'm talkin about. so like, to get yer post clear...yer sayin that my thoughts became more complete when you read more posts, yah?

[William]

thanks brah! it's not directed at him specifically, but it is haha. like, it's a general statement, and it's also singling one person out. i think you prolly know who i'm talkin about. so like, to get yer post clear...yer sayin that my thoughts became more complete when you read more posts, yah?

Hey Kai, I wasn't attacking you either. Like I was just saying that some peeps could get hurt by what you said even though you didnt mean to hurt anyone. Like none of us can say exactly what we mean, especially in a few sentences, and we can all be misunderstood, so its best to be careful about what we say unless we can explain it.

I get misunderstood all the time in RL. LOL! Like my teachers think Im not paying attention when Im really thinking hard about other important things. :grin:

[Bromptonrocks]

thanks brah! it's not directed at him specifically, but it is haha. like, it's a general statement, and it's also singling one person out. i think you prolly know who i'm talkin about. so like, to get yer post clear...yer sayin that my thoughts became more complete when you read more posts, yah?

Spot on....Keep up the good work....

[Paul_UK]

Right, can we please get this back onto the original subject now, otherwise it will be closed.

[gabriel1]

Right, can we please get this back onto the original subject now, otherwise it will be closed.
Personally i think this thread has run its course.

[Paul_UK]

So do I, but let's give it one more chance.

[Paul_UK]

OK, I have closed it. Thanks everyone for an interesting discussion.