the bible is full of shit

[Monique_Massacre]

am i the only one who thinks this ..i cant be

"The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin"
The Bible ALSO says don't shave, cut your hair, don't eat pork or shellfish and stone your kid if he sasses you. Do you read the Bible selectively and seek out only the verses that justify your own biases? Read the parts of the Bible that admonish us to "Judge Not" and "He who is without sin, let HIM cast the first stone. Don't be overly righteous or overly wise, why destroy yourself? the bible contridicts itself all the time...like adam and eve, their children had to reproduce but they were all brother and sister....thats insest which the bible says is wrong...i swear some people are such arrogant jesus freaks!

lol i love this guy he is great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHuzRhNSsfs&feature

[Grantious]

Hey

I pretty much agree, i lost all my faith in da bible, but that has more to do wif da fact that the bible was ritten by people that belived lighting was magical and the earth was flat lol

but thats just me

Catch

[Ty]

I really do dislike religion. End of.

[Tom]

i loved tht video! i must link to it on msn sumwer!

[Louise]

I think the bible is very often metaphorical and is not meant to be taken as fact. The people writting the bible did so an awful long time ago and often mixed up fact and their own personal outlook on life and at a time when the masses needed to be controlled and before there were policement, judges and prisons. It was much easier to make people believe that they would burn for eternity in the hell's fires for stealing (for example) than try to reason with uneducated masses with all the base instincts that we humans suffer from... gread, jealousy, anger, spite, etc.

I believe that the major religions that we have today Christianism, Judaism, Islam, Bhuddism were created to try to civilize society. There are a LOT of good things in the Bible, Tora, et Koran, of love, tolerance, kindess and the filial and social duties expected of us. Hundreds of millions of people have based their lives on these teachings, over the milenia, and have lead happy, healthy and usefull lives. These teachings have given them a framework in which to build thier lives without having to worry or workout for themselves what is right or wrong (a bit like sheep if you like).

Of course if you want to take things out of context or interpret them to suit some nasty phobia you have you can. This has been done throughout the ages and is still going on but it is not the fault of the Bible but more of the people doing the interpretation.

Saying that the bible is full of shit is extremely disrespectful to those who do believe. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. The Bible, Tora, and Koran are the three most studied works EVER and have between them shaped the world that we live in today.

So in conclusion to this rant, I'm sorry you feel that way but the Bible is NOT full of shit! Just one thing I am an atheist but I do get mad when people mock something as enormous as the Bible.

[beckyg]

Louise makes some valuable points. Personally, I do believe in God and believe the Bible has some historical significance and really worthwhile guidance for our lives. I'm sure other teachings (although I've never studied them) are the same. What I disagree with is fundamentalism. The Bible was written by man with their own interpretation and own biases and prejudices. It makes me sad that some of these fundamentalist Christians think all people ought to believe exactly like they do are we are doomed to go to hell. Even those who don't practice it, but who have been brought up that way, pull those verses out of the Bible to support their own prejudices. That angers me. My own Dad has told me that me and my son are going to hell. I don't even believe in hell but if I told him that, he'd really go ballistic. My fundamentalist Christian uncle called me up to try to get me to go to a Love Won Out (aka: pray away the gay) seminar. "Oh but if you only believe and have faith, your son will be cured of his homosexuality." That is BULLSHIT!

[Louise]

My fundamentalist Christian uncle called me up to try to get me to go to a Love Won Out (aka: pray away the gay) seminar. "Oh but if you only believe and have faith, your son will be cured of his homosexuality." That is BULLSHIT!

I'm with you there Becky... *stands and raises hands in the air *Praise the lord jk :grin:

Small minded people's interpretation of the Bible encourages homophobia, colour, religious and sexual prejudice but there is oh SO much more than that in there!

[Hollywood]

i haaaaaaaaate christinaity. after 15 years of it and beating myself up over my sexuality, leaving the church 2 years ago set me free.

[Louise]

I agree with you whole heartedly and organised religions have done almost as much harm as they have good but to say that the Bible is full of shit.... No just can't agree!

[trumpetkid23]

I think that it's a common misconception amongst those who do not consider themselves Christian that Christianity is a harmful thing. I will not deny that many horrendous things have happened in the name of Christianity, but just as Louise puts it, this is because of people's interpretation of the Bible, not the writings themselves.

I think that Christianity gets a bad reputation amongst non-believers because of the fundamentalists that Becky speaks of. In reality, the fundamentalists are a minority. They're a minority in the same way that Islamic fundamentalists (the suicide bombers, etc.) are a minority within Islam. Most people who are Islamic aren't blowing up buildings, just as every Christian is not a Jerry Falwell, telling people they're going to hell.

I believe that Chrisitianity is a tolerant, accepting, and LOVING religion. At least that's the Christianity I practice. I don't take everything in the Bible word for word. I believe it was written by man, and therefore flawed by man.

Also, we need to be careful to understand that the Bible was written thousands of years ago, in an EXTREMELY different culture. To place every situation and verse in the Bible into our culture today is a very ignorant thing to do. Unfortuneatly, those people who do that are the people we see on the news and in the media.

In actuality, Christianity saved my life. I live in an area where fundamentalism is extremely prominent. For much of my life I believed I was going to hell for my sexuality; however, through a number of events I began to see homosexuality in a different way. I began to pray to the god that I once believed hated me. I soon found that that was where I was recieving my comfort. My life was turned around.

So I think we just have to be careful about what we say about religion. Yes, it has caused lots of pain for many people, but it has also given lots of people hope, as it did for me. I would never judge someone because they have a different religion. Who knows what good it's doing for them? To me, Christianity is about love first and foremost, and I believe is overall message of the Bible conveys this.

[beckyg]

To me, Christianity is about love first and foremost, and I believe is overall message of the Bible conveys this.

EXACTLY!!!!!

[Behling]

are we really not done bashing other peoples beliefs? Only people who already hate gays believe that passage in the bible and they latch onto it and use it to justify their hate. The bible was only written by men who have flaws. The problem with the bible is that people act like god dropped it from the sky. So please, if you must hate, don't hate religion, hate the zealots who pervert it and ruin it.

[stefy18]

i think ppl just like religon cuz it gives them sum1 or something 2 blame.

[Hollywood]

I believe that Chrisitianity is a tolerant, accepting, and LOVING religion. At least that's the Christianity I practice. I don't take everything in the Bible word for word. I believe it was written by man, and therefore flawed by man.

I think it's great that you practice that, and that is what my mother claims to practice, but everything I expirenced in the church environment for 15 years spoke to the contrary.

Also, we need to be careful to understand that the Bible was written thousands of years ago, in an EXTREMELY different culture. To place every situation and verse in the Bible into our culture today is a very ignorant thing to do. Unfortuneatly, those people who do that are the people we see on the news and in the media.

Exactly. Unfortunatly, 99% of christianity dosen't understand that concept.

[Behling]

Exactly. Unfortunatly, 99% of christianity dosen't understand that concept.

Not true at all. Their is a liberal Christian church in my town. Many people understand that, its sad that the pope does not because people judge all Catholics on him

[Zeraphath]

The bible and the actual Christianity is not to blame. The original is most likely locked away in the Vatican. Everything else is interpreted.

There are churches out there that a gay or lesbian Christian can attend without fear of condemnation but for the most part...the "zealots" have twisted it. Thing is to let them go with love. Prove you are better than that. While we are on that subject, even though their words sound hateful remember that they say it in love and ingnorance. Hopefully that can bring a smile to your face..."I love you enough to tell you that you're going to hell." Muhahaha. It's hard to get into that mindset at first but it can be done. My father is one of those zealots, so is his wife, and it's hard trying to ease him into it (tried to come out twice to him) without getting into the almighty sin argument.

Anyhow, I once found this great resource that puts a different twist on some of the texts in the bible that is used against homosexuality. http://www.christianlesbians.com It's got good articles and lists different gay friendly congregations.

And that's my 2 cents. :D

[ohioboy]

i think ppl just like religon cuz it gives them sum1 or something 2 blame.

Agree^:***:

[trumpetkid23]

Look at churches like the Unitarian Universalists (which are not exclusively Christian), the United Church of Christ, and many others. There is a massive movement underway in support of gay rights within the Christian religion.

Also, what Zeraphath said is VERY important. We cannot "stoop to the level" of those who are so condemning by doing the same thing back. We claim "love has no boundaries". If we REALLY believe that, then we would love those who hate us.

[InaRut]

This thread is kinda offensive.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have right to say this about someone elses religeon. No matter what they're viewpoints are.

[sexyalex]

am i the only one who thinks this ..i cant be

"The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin"
The Bible ALSO says don't shave, cut your hair, don't eat pork or shellfish and stone your kid if he sasses you. Do you read the Bible selectively and seek out only the verses that justify your own biases? Read the parts of the Bible that admonish us to "Judge Not" and "He who is without sin, let HIM cast the first stone. Don't be overly righteous or overly wise, why destroy yourself? the bible contridicts itself all the time...like adam and eve, their children had to reproduce but they were all brother and sister....thats insest which the bible says is wrong...i swear some people are such arrogant jesus freaks!

lol i love this guy he is great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHuzRhNSsfs&feature



ok Monique, we r friends right? i really don't want to say something i SHOULDN'T cuz i don't want to get in trouble with EC moderators but it's not gonna stop me from airing my view:cry:
personally i am not going to join everyone and rant about what the bible says and what it dosn't or whether it's right or wrong BUT i will ask for you Mon and everyone else who bashes it to quote the sections of the bible u are speaking of. state which book it came from, chapter and vs. i personally don't confide in the bible but my own concience however i do refer to it many times.

i have no idea if because i am not a critic of the bible like most other; i am going to get in trouble with a mod or admin but i won't further comment on this post unless i see some quotes. :) sorry. cuz seriously i know how bias this can get and people really should judge the bible if they don't have proof:dry:

[acorn7]

Yeah, this thread is kind of offensive, but w/e; people are entitled to their opinion. I think a lot of people in all major religions have abused their power (the popes, for example) and it's made them all look bad. Just look at the Inquisition, the Islamic terrorists that make all muslims look evil, etc., etc. Plus, religions have "justified" so many wars it's not even funny.

But... I completely respect people who believe in them... If it works for you, that's awesome. I personally believe in energy and light... very abstract, I know :)

[Behling]

This thread is kinda offensive.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have right to say this about someone elses religeon. No matter what they're viewpoints are.

I agree 100% Can we be done ripping on others beliefs?

[trumpetkid23]

This thread is kinda offensive.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have right to say this about someone elses religeon. No matter what they're viewpoints are.

I agree 100% Can we be done ripping on others beliefs?

Yes, please. I'm ready for the world to get along. Even if that is naive.

[Monique_Massacre]

sorry i didnt really mean to be offensive although i know i was it was just it was 4 in the morning and i was having a really bad day and i was arguing with this kid who i didnt know who some how got my msn and it was about the shit in this thread i was tired and on meds for all my sickness that i have at once stupid ear infection and strep and a cold and shit for my head im sorry if i pissed people off ...well no not really i am not sorry for that because this was at the time my opinion .. and stil kind of is so .. umm yea and ok so maybe its not completly full of shit but it is ful of stupid lies that make people beleave its ok to treat people like crap and have it justified because the stupid book says so.. a stupid book that was writen in the veiws of stupid people from hundreds of years ago....

[chrisbrgstrm]

WOW.......i mean i'm not religious at all anymore but even i wouldn't say it's full of shit..........i think it's full of out dated items that no longer stand the test of time......... people we're not as cultured back then and god probably wishes he could tell us to rewrite it the correct way now...

[beckyg]

I think God exists in alot of literature these days. You just have to read and resonate with what touches you. Anybody read the Conversations with God books? This guy (who lives in Oregon, by the way) says God spoke through him and wrote these books. Of course, all kinds of religious people said this guy had lost his mind and was whacko. BUT is it any different than what happened with the people who wrote the Bible? In the books, he talks about homosexuality and other hot topic issues like abortion. I found them to be quite comforting. I read them before my son came out, by the way.

[InaRut]

Lets just close down this thread. We have enough topics on religeon, no?

[chrisbrgstrm]

Hey Becky could you try to find out the author and the name of the book i would love to try and find it, i feel like i need some type of beleif in god but i really need help

[Paul_UK]

I just looked on Amazon, it's Neale Donald Walsch.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Conversations-God-Boxed-Set/dp/0399153292/

[beckyg]

His name is Neale Donald Walsch and he has written many of these books. Here is his website: http://www.nealedonaldwalsch.com/ I'm sure you can get these books at your local library.

[JayHew]

There is another series of books that perhaps would be of interest to some: A Course in Miracles

It is a three book course. It is not known who wrote it but it has some pretty profound things in it. (likely members of the foundation that puts it out)

Here is the introduction: "This is a course in miracles. It is a required course. Only the time you take it is voluntary. Free will does not mean that you can establish the curriculum. It means only that you can elect what you want to take at a given time. The course does not aim at teaching the meaning of love, for that is beyond what can be taught. It does aim, however, at removing the blocks to the awareness of love's presence which is your natural inheritance. The opposite of love is fear, but what is all-encompassing can have no opposite.

This course can therefore be summed up very simply in this way:

Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.

Herein lies the peace of God."

It is a very interesting read and challenges a lot of what is held now days. I believe it all needs to be challenged.

The course (books) can be found: http://www.amazon.com/Course-Miracles-Foundation-Inner-Peace/dp/0670869759

[Behling]

Lets just close down this thread. We have enough topics on religeon, no?

I agree

[greg]

This thread is kinda offensive.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have right to say this about someone else's religion. No matter what they're viewpoints are.

So why does religion believe that it has the right to criticise others and not take criticism themselves, are religious freaks really that precious? Poor dears one day they will see the light. greg

[Paul_UK]

We'll only shut a thread if it becomes argumentative or insulting, or if it violates the Code of Conduct. Closing it just because some people don't like the subject would be censorship.

If you don't like it, don't look at it. ;)

[Kenko]

I was raised Christian but currently consider myself agnostic.

I don't think religion is completely useless. The Torah did help give order to early society, by setting out certain rules. Christianity came along, and added some new ideas. The Christian god is a little less vengeful and a bit more about love and forgiveness.

Regardless of whether what they believe in is true or not, modern churches do provide some good. Many of the teachings of the church are genuinely good (love thy neighbour, don't steal, help those in need), which if it succeeds in teaching people those values that wouldn't get them otherwise, that's not a bad thing.

Churches can also help with the sense of community. Especially in smaller communities, the church can bring people together through other social activities which again isn't a bad thing. I see a lot of good being done by churches in my neighbourhood. Many churches run food and clothing banks which help the very poor. People also turn to the church in time of emotional need. For example they help comfort people dealing with death.

The problem is I think many churches take the wrong spin on many issues. The obvious example is how many churches deal with homosexuality. There's a couple verses in the bible dealing with the topic and they are kind of ambiguous, and of course they seem to be taken in a negative manner. I'm pretty sure Jesus, if he actually existed, the man of love, who didn't shun the leopards (sp?), wouldn't shun homosexuals.

And of course each denomination is different and has different values. As well, not everyone that subscribe to a denomination agrees with 100% of that churches teachings.

[Paul_UK]

We'll only shut a thread if it becomes argumentative or insulting, or if it violates the Code of Conduct. Closing it just because some people don't like the subject would be censorship.

If you don't like it, don't look at it. ;)

I should have added that if there are several simultaneous LIVE threads on the same subject we may close or merge some of them to keep things manageable. At the moment though there is only this religion thread live (by which I mean has had posts in the last couple of days) so no problem there.

[mrrolemodel]

sorry i didnt really mean to be offensive although i know i was it was just it was 4 in the morning and i was having a really bad day and i was arguing with this kid who i didnt know who some how got my msn and it was about the shit in this thread i was tired and on meds for all my sickness that i have at once stupid ear infection and strep and a cold and shit for my head im sorry if i pissed people off ...well no not really i am not sorry for that because this was at the time my opinion .. and stil kind of is so .. umm yea and ok so maybe its not completly full of shit but it is ful of stupid lies that make people beleave its ok to treat people like crap and have it justified because the stupid book says so.. a stupid book that was writen in the veiws of stupid people from hundreds of years ago....

you seem to have plenty of excuses for what you say, but just continue being as hateful as any christian.
its not like you cant be gay and christian, i am. or liberal and christian for that matter.
i know plenty of people who are both.

but whatever.
i probably hate all gay people too? just because of what i believe in?
give me a break...:dry:

[Latinokid]

I haven't read like the gospels or bible...if they are all the same thing or not but what i do know is that i hate the message that the christian religion is sending and how hypocritical they are. I was raised catholic and attending catholic school and went to church and did my first communion. In the bible or in the ten comandments...one of them lol...it says that you must not judge someone else unless you are perfect, god loves everyone no matter what and always forgives, and the most important is that it teaches you to love Jesus said "let the children come to me" did ever say dont let that gay kid get near me? DId he ever say i hate fags? Did god ever send a letter down to earth saying i hate fags? NO so i don't understand why people are putting words into their God and making him into a evil character. God loves all wether race,sexual orientation, height, weight all people and anykind because they are all his creations. And if you are guna follow the bible to ever last word then you must be perfect of course to do so. And btw I'm atheist.

[wherewulfe]

good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do a bad thing and a bad person to do a good thing, that takes religion


you really wanna bust the WHOLE bible based on a few quotes people seem to be obssessed about.
try reading some of it, its actually quite beautiful. (i recomend 1 Corinthians 13:4 - 8)

but think about, the entire premise of how to be a good person is based somewhat off the bible

dont kill, dont lie, be nice, dont cheat others...

yes there is stupid quotes but once again, the bible was written by humans making it imprefect like everything else

[Paul_UK]

We are getting a few post reports about this thread, and a few posts have already been deleted or edited. Please try to remain calm and avoid personal insults, everyone. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[trumpetkid23]

And of course each denomination is different and has different values. As well, not everyone that subscribe to a denomination agrees with 100% of that churches teachings.

I don't even associate myself with denomination. I don't really believe in labeling my beliefs beyond Christian.

[Jim1454]

This thread is kinda offensive.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have right to say this about someone else's religion. No matter what they're viewpoints are.

So why does religion believe that it has the right to criticise others and not take criticism themselves, are religious freaks really that precious? Poor dears one day they will see the light. greg

The point is Greg, none of the religious freaks that you're refering to are in Empty Closets. So by making these statements about organized religion, you're only offending other members of Empty Closets - and they are only two familiar with the challenge of reconciling their faith with being gay.

Obviously NOBODY here agrees with the fundamentalist Christian who thinks homosexuality is a sin. You're 'preaching to the choir' - so to speak.

[Behling]

wow, this topic is really making me see some different sides of people, its kinda sad

[Wired106]

Hey, I've actually been learnign stuff in a class im takign at school and it says not to take stuff literal in the bible, but I do agree with some of the stuff your saying. The thing that pisses my off the most is how the church gets involved in everything. Like theyre saying gay marriage is bad, abortions are bad, and even have their own opinions on iraq and a ton of other things. even though some stuff like abortions might be bad, they should stop butting in on issues like this. anyways, theyve been going through enough crap and have had priests molesting kids and crap. They shouldnt be telling everyone else what to do and announcing it to the world, when they have problems themselves that they have to deal with. that stuff really pisses me off about the church.

[greg]

This thread is kinda offensive.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have right to say this about someone else's religion. No matter what they're viewpoints are.

So why does religion believe that it has the right to criticise others and not take criticism themselves, are religious freaks really that precious? Poor dears one day they will see the light. greg

The point is Greg, none of the religious freaks that you're refering to are in Empty Closets. So by making these statements about organized religion, you're only offending other members of Empty Closets - and they are only two familiar with the challenge of reconciling their faith with being gay.

Obviously NOBODY here agrees with the fundamentalist Christian who thinks homosexuality is a sin. You're 'preaching to the choir' - so to speak.

Sorry for any offence taken,it was not intended. When i have a discussion with people that call themselves Christian, their argument generally goes well its your choice (as if i would choose to be gay) therefore the reasoning is that you have chosen to go against Christian beliefs so therefore you are a sinner. I say, as we all know, being gay is not a choice, i also point out them that being Christian/religious is a choice (no one is born religious) and it is their choice to be a believer of bigoted beliefs so therefore they must be bigots, to me religious fanatics are fair game and I'll take them on in an argument because by believing in the bible they are believing that bigotry is ok. greg

[Ty]

I prefer to live my life based on facts and not a collection of 2000 year old stories. Thats just the way I am. Suits me fine.



/Ty

[davo-man]

I was just reading this thread for the first time (usually I stay away from religious threads, cos I find them too hard not to offend others) but I was just thinking: I wonder what the response would have been if the thread title had read "The Qu'ran is full of shit"? (or the Torah...although that's pretty much just half of the Bible, so not much different)...Personally I think it would have been shut/locked immediately. In my opinion, people these days are allowed to criticise Christianity sooo much more than other, relatively smaller, religions becuase it would be sooo politically-incorrect. The point I'm trying make is: Why is it socially acceptable to pay out Christianity so ruthlessly when paying out Judaism or Islam is deemed a hate crime. I dunno, maybe my midnight brain is just spouting needless vomit thoughts, but anyway

Personally I think the Bible, along with all other sacred scriptures are only to be taken as a guide, not as an instruction manual to be followed exactly. I mean, every single one was written by a human person (in my opinion, I don't believe any sacred scriptures came directly from a god) therefore they are ultimately tainted by that person's opinions, culture, existing beliefs, likes/dislikes etc.

Anyway, I'm not a die hard Christian, although I believe what Jesus was saying had some merit, Love one another as you would have them love you and all that sounds like a good idea to me. I think every religion should be respected just like all others, and while I know Christianity isn't exactly kind to homosexuality, I don't see why we have to stoop to their level (by basically branding every Christian an mindless, brainwashed idiot who needs to be converted to atheism or agnosticism) to get our views across.

Anyway, have a good night ppl

[beckyg]

Well said davo-man!

[Quitex]

I repeat to myself "NOT open the religious thread", "DONT do it", "NEVER click it".... but then I do, I read it, I cry and I feel like shit to myself.
Why did I had to recieve the Radical Christian Education and be gay? This whole thing is nor right. If God really exists he wouldn't let me be gay. But guess what?? He does exist and I guess he just want to get rid of me.
Pffft let him do whatever he wants to.

[beckyg]

Xets....being gay doesn't have to be the end of your religion or your belief in God. You CAN have both. Please don't feel bad about yourself. It is my strongest belief that God made you and loves you just the way you are and wants you to live your authentic life. I would put my life on it!!

[Nicknikko]

hahaha...
i actually don't believe in the bible or any religious stuff at all...

[Quitex]

I cant have both because the Bible says "you can't serve two lords". And hell again me talking about the Bible. If I will feel this pain everyday I prefer not to live anymore.

[beckyg]

I cant have both because the Bible says "you can't serve two lords". And hell again me talking about the Bible. If I will feel this pain everyday I prefer not to live anymore.


Oh Xets......you are making me very sad. God created you. Do you think he wants you to end your life? Nooooo......he wants you to love yourself.

[Alexander]

Xets:

God created you in His image, a likeness of His perfection. Of all the creatures in the world and all the things in the universe, He only made humans in his image. Since He is perfect, how could he make anything that is less than perfect? Therefore you must be perfect, and exactly the way He wanted you. He will ALWAYS love you.

He also said that nobody but Him has any right to judge a person. So ignore all the haters and demeaners who claim to know what God wants. Follow your heart to God and ignore those people who are unenlightened to the truth.

[Kovax14]

I don't believe that the bible is full of shit. It has countless aspects with which I disagree, but on the whole I live my life with central christian values in mind. Much of the more objectionable content within the bible is now regarded as archaic, yet regrettably the adverse opinions of homosexuality continue to pervade our society today. If you are mindful of the context of its writing, the bible has a lot of valuable lessons to offer in my opinion.

[jocr92]

the thing about religion, is that its like george bush (sry to use such a lame example), it gives no proof what-so-ever. we are all believing in a book that CLAIMS to have an ordinary man, turn water in to wine. ok now i cna see where there will be hard to find evidence for that, but what about noahs ark? did they find it? NO. Did they find the tower of babble? no. did they find the remains of abraham, john, judah? no. all they have is a cross and a cave to back up over 2000 pages of events claimed to be real.

im agnostic and i do believe in a higher being, i just have no set religion is all. i th9ink that there is someone out there, or somthing and and we go to someplace when we die.

i go to an all protestant school and trust me, its not easy going to church every other thursdays in the morning and every thursday in a school quarter yearly. its so boring but i do enjoy the teachings that they... well teach. like live life and have fun when its right and dont take things for granted and when you need help, ask for it. its charming... until they throw god and jesus into it.

"live life and have fun... and believe in jesus"
"dont take things for granted.... because you wont be able to have any wordly possesions in heaven"
"when you need help, ask for it... jesus/god will always be there"

JESUS CHRIST MONKEY BALLS WTF?

anyway, the church always asks for something in return. "The money goes to god" my ass. at school, we are required as a graduation requirement to take ekalasia (hawaiian for chapel) for one quarter, every year. this year, i HAVE TO GO TO A CHURCH and research on it. what the fuck if i dont want to? goddddddd this sucks.

ok, this thursday, we were talking about other religions and how like the bible says not to believe in other gods and how god is jealous and all like that

1) if we are of his image, were not perfect. and by the transitive (geometry folks, if a=b and b=c, a=c) property, he isnt perfect.
2) jealously is a sin... and sin is a sign for imperfection

and isnt protestant/catholic religions great? you can do whatever the feck you want, and when you are about to die, confess and you'll go to heaven.

you gotta love religion. i dont :D

[Alexander]

Whenever in the bible is says god was jealous/angry/felt compassion/whatever it means it metaphorically. God never changes -> i.e. that hints at imperfection. Plus all time is in 1 constant now for God (who doesn't exist in a 4 dimensional universe like us), so it's not like he doesn't know what's going to/has/will happen.

1) if we are of his image, were not perfect. and by the transitive (geometry folks, if a=b and b=c, a=c) property, he isnt perfect.

We are of his image, we're not carbon copies.

and isnt protestant/catholic religions great? you can do whatever the feck you want, and when you are about to die, confess and you'll go to heaven.

Not true cause if you don't mean it, you're screwed.

Sorry to get uber religious :p :D

[Cheese Love]

To say the bible is full of shit is midly offensive. Everyday, I try to reconcile my faith and sexuality and hearing people bash the bible, or fundamentalists bash gay people, makes everything worse. When you're a religious person and hearing this, honestly it brings back that feeling of wanting to die because everybody seems to have a negative opinion on one side or the other.

People who hate Christianity with a passion are doing the same as those who hate you for who you are. Everybody is looking for justification for why they can hate another person- where's the love?

You can hate Christians because they allegedly hate you all you want, but the majority of people aren't like that. Those who do openly hate people who are different aren't living as Christ intendeded them to.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

To fundamentalists:
1 John 4:8
"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

[wickedboi]

wow...who would of thought one book that is 2000 or so years old can still cause this much probs in the world. I just wish people can respect other people's differences and NOT judge them....gee isnt that what the book that everyone is so up in arms about these days say anyway?

[Astaroth]

I tried not to read this thread. I really did! :lol:

Okay, here are my scattered thoughts on religion in general. First, the chances of choosing the "right" religion are abysmal at best. There have been countless versions of faith throughout time. The Christianity followed 2000 years ago isn't the same as the Christianity followed today. And it was based on Judaism. Which took some of its roots from Zoroastrianism. Which sewed its seeds into Hinduism. Which influenced Buddhism. Which twisted the Chinese Taoism. Plus, there are all those local religions in Africa and the aboriginal societies of the past. Who's to say that they didn't have the right ideas? Popularity is the only answer I can think of. Because they didn't have good PR skills. Christianity was prostheletized (sp?) by writers. Every disciple wrote letters. Every priest was also a scribe. And it was one of the first religions that used the this-or-nothing mentality. If you didn't follow Christianity, you were nothing. This isn't the case with most other religions before then. Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism. They all believed that regardless of a person's beliefs, the divine power above was in control and would make things go the way they were meant to. That's why they didn't have as much power behind them. There wasn't hellfire and brimstone in the future.

So, with the odds of actually choosing a correct religion being nil, a lot of people choose to believe that they simply wouldn't choose the wrong religion. I'll bet you that if you ask any religious person if their beliefs were the "right" ones, they would say yes. So, apparently, a majority of the world is wrong according to most people. No one wants to think that they may have made the "wrong" choice (or that there isn't even a choice at all!).

So, I guess that's why I don't subscribe to any religion these days. However, that doesn't mean that I'm not spiritual or that I belittle others for their faith. A lot of my friends are of diverse faiths. Buddhists. Wiccans. Christians. Mormon. You name it, I probably know someone who follows it. So, I've learned to just take what wisdom I can from every faith and leave behind the rest. Do I feel worried about death? No more than anyone else. Because who knows if they're right anyway! :lol:

And that, as they say, is that.

[deeNIreland]

the bible was created by people, for people.

we can each take our own interpretations from it. I do try my best to live as much by the bible as i can. but i have realised, that in modern society, it is hard to do. especially with being a gay man. lol. the bible frowns upon that, but it doesnt mean that we should disregard the rest of it. there are some important lessons we can take from it.

indeed we can be selective of what we read, or care to take heed of, but one of the most important things i have taken from the bible is

do onto others as you would have done onto urself...

even if others treat u badly, it doesnt give u the right to treat them in a similar way.

therefore, i dont think the bible is a lot of shit. but thats my opinion.

[Astaroth]

Actually, the golden rule (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you) was first attributed to Confucius. :lol: The Bible just stole it.

[Luroon]

Some of the things the Bible says are fairly commonsense ways to live. Don't kill people, be nice to your neighbors, things like that are rules everyone should live by.

However, I do not feel the Bible is divinely inspired, and I don't think God can exist. In order of anything capable of consciousness to exist, it has to have something to be conscious of; therefore, existence has to exist. God, being a consciousness, cannot have existed before existence, which he is credited with having created.

[Malchik89]

Actually the bible is not full of shit...and this is coming from an agnostic gay guy who has never gone to church in his life.

However i do know that it does state that homosexuality is an abomination. Now abomination doesnt necessarily mean something ruited in evil and that should be disgusted, thats just what some of the readers of the holy text choose to interpret it as. Now really an abomination is just an act or something that breaks or is outside a tradition. Homosexuality indeed does break the tradition of a man and a woman gettting married and having kids.

Thats what the text itself states, its the few stupid ignorant individuals who choose to take that text and interpret into various figures stating that god wants all gay people to burn in hell. So the bible is not full of shit, just some of its select readers are.

Now please lets not go bashing ways of life, because though some individuals might have beliefs that are just plain inhuman, not everyone of that belief does. Lets just love and not hate, otherwise we're no better than those select people who make their kids where "god hates fags" tshirts to protests.

[pirateninja]

People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS. The bible is the word of God, told through the pens of men. Or should I say tablets of men, seeing as that's what they wrote with then.

"Abomination" and "unnatural" to people who wrote the bible then, meant "not culturally normal".

What do I READ when I see Leviticus 18:22 "A man lying with another man is an abomination, let the blood be on their own heads"?

"Homosexuality is not culturally normal, but if they feel it is right, then it is up to them to choose to accept it."

Plus, Jesus and the bible has some good things to say aboot gay people ( www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com )

No I'm not religious but I don't think the bible is full of shit.

[RGX Guy]

I don't get caught up in all that stuff.
I still love God and I still have belief in the Bible and stuff but I just don't believe the thing about liking the same sex being a sin.

I really don't believe that he would just let us go to Hell ya know.

Idk. I just don't believe it.

[Beebo]

People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS. The bible is the word of God, told through the pens of men. Or should I say tablets of men, seeing as that's what they wrote with then.

"Abomination" and "unnatural" to people who wrote the bible then, meant "not culturally normal".

What do I READ when I see Leviticus 18:22 "A man lying with another man is an abomination, let the blood be on their own heads"?

"Homosexuality is not culturally normal, but if they feel it is right, then it is up to them to choose to accept it."

Plus, Jesus and the bible has some good things to say aboot gay people ( www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com )

No I'm not religious but I don't think the bible is full of shit.

A NON RELIGIOUS MINISTER!!! STONE HER! (kidding to the max).

The stuff in bold.

Did you get "People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS" from the documentary I posted a while back? Cause thats one of the lines that stuck with me too. *Diving hug*

Way to stay true to us Canadians. "aboot". Thanks Buddy. ;) hahah.

[Negasta]

Then why doesn't the church change the Bible? A lot people are taught that the Bible is the unalterable word of Gawd and that everything in there is true to the letter. Until those evil passages are changed/removed my contempt of Christianity and its leaders especially will never decrease.

[Lexington]

They haven't taken out that part about slavery, or that part about goats, or the part about not eating pork, either. Somehow, the people adapted.

Lex

[Beebo]

They haven't taken out that part about slavery, or that part about goats, or the part about not eating pork, either. Somehow, the people adapted.

Lex

I agree.

[BookWorm]

Finally! Fellow believers that the bible is full of crap!
i think that an exillent movie that explains this pretty cool-like is 'the Bible Tells Me So' It's AMAZING!!!

[beckyg]

That is an excellent movie, one that every religious organization should see! I just wish they would open their minds to it. :(

[MeskElil]

Okay, people, let's just calm down.
This is a very offensive thread, and I just want to make one point:
The basic idea of religion (the concept of it) is to help keep society from being so corrupt, so awful, so PREJUDICED, that it's blinded from the good things in life: love, joy, peace, patience, and all the rest (Yes, I'm a Bible nut.)
I believe, even though I'm Christian, that ALL religions are valid and wonderful.
No one believes all of the Bible. If people did...Wow, the world would be SUCH a crazy place.
On my all-are-equal point, let me say this, a quote from my mom's World Religions classes in college:

The professor drew a mountain on the chalkboard. On one side of the mountain, he wrote "Frozen Tundra". On the other side, he wrote "Desert".
"The people from each side of the mountain are given a manual on how to reach the top of the mountain. The people from the tundra are told to 'pack heavy clothing, don't bring a lot of water, travel during the day, etc.' The people from the desert are told to 'wear light clothing, take LOTS of water, travel at night, etc.' Pretty much the exact opposite. Both head up the mountain, and near the top, the instructions become more and more similar..."

So you see, when it comes down to it, the basic goal of all religions is to be happy and reach happiness.
The basic goal of the Bible is no different. The basic goal of ALL religions is no different.

PLEASE respect other people's religion. Everyone is aiming to get to the same place.
Don't hurt people because of what they believe--this thread is extremely damaging.

[Stargate]

One on my favorite quotes is "The Bible is not a fax from God" Meaning that the Bible is a work of man, and thus it carries with it our arrogance and our flaws. One also has to look at the cultural ascpects of the Bible. The ones that tend to get quoted at us a lot is Leviticus

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Now this is found next to the Bible's damnation of eating shrimp, wearing multi-fiber clothing and putting more than one seed in a hole. Now from the passage about multi-fiber clothing were all going to hell if you take the Bible literally. When reading these passages you have to remember the social position of the people who wrote it. For those of you not well versed in religous history Levitcus was most likley written during the Jewish nations 40 year exile in the deseret, or during a time when the Jewish people were trying to get off on a sound footing. So simply put these religous laws were put down as tools to expoilt the masses so that the Jewish people could expand. So the problem with homosexuality is simply put we dont make babies, thus the Jewish people wouldnt be able to propogate. This is the problem that happened in Ancient Greece, a large prectenage of the population was gay, they werent having babies and the population stagnated. If you look at the other verses they all have some type of goal behind them, planting more than one seed in a hole wastes seeds and thus food, same thing with multifibered clothing. I dont really know how the shrimp thing came about but I'm sure there was a reason.

We do not posses the origional manuscripts of the Bible and thus do not know what the origional message is behind the writers. The Bible has so many versions and translantions. You can look at two modern English versions and find differences. Now go compare the New International Version to the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Bible is not meant to be taken literally. The beauty and curse of it is that two people can take entirelly differnent meaning from the same passage.

[dsfox2009]

SO...after reading every single post, I just thought that I would throw my opinion out their.

All of the "Bible-Thumping" christians out their say that being gay is a sin...right?

BUT...the bible also says that all of us, EVERY single person on this earth, are based on sin. It's what created us. From the beginning with Adam and Eve...we are all sinners. With that being said, how could living your life with a person of the same sex be any different that cussing all the time? The Bible itself even states that ALL sins are equal.

AND...aren't christians, myself included, supposed to love ALL people no matter what their age, color, race...ANYTHING? I don't believe the sinning is wrong. So...if you consider homosexuality a sin (which...I do ):), then you should still love the sinner. And plus...you have committed a sin in your life too. Let us live our lives the way we want.

And THAT, my friends, would be my view on the matter at hand.

[pirateninja]

SO...after reading every single post, I just thought that I would throw my opinion out their.

All of the "Bible-Thumping" christians out their say that being gay is a sin...right?

BUT...the bible also says that all of us, EVERY single person on this earth, are based on sin. It's what created us. From the beginning with Adam and Eve...we are all sinners. With that being said, how could living your life with a person of the same sex be any different that cussing all the time? The Bible itself even states that ALL sins are equal.

AND...aren't christians, myself included, supposed to love ALL people no matter what their age, color, race...ANYTHING? I don't believe the sinning is wrong. So...if you consider homosexuality a sin (which...I do ):), then you should still love the sinner. And plus...you have committed a sin in your life too. Let us live our lives the way we want.

And THAT, my friends, would be my view on the matter at hand.


Exactly; we should not blame a book for what men do, just because they do. It is the prejuced Christians that are misguided.

[pirateninja]

People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS. The bible is the word of God, told through the pens of men. Or should I say tablets of men, seeing as that's what they wrote with then.

"Abomination" and "unnatural" to people who wrote the bible then, meant "not culturally normal".

What do I READ when I see Leviticus 18:22 "A man lying with another man is an abomination, let the blood be on their own heads"?

"Homosexuality is not culturally normal, but if they feel it is right, then it is up to them to choose to accept it."

Plus, Jesus and the bible has some good things to say aboot gay people ( www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com )

No I'm not religious but I don't think the bible is full of shit.

A NON RELIGIOUS MINISTER!!! STONE HER! (kidding to the max).

The stuff in bold.

Did you get "People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS" from the documentary I posted a while back? Cause thats one of the lines that stuck with me too. *Diving hug*

Way to stay true to us Canadians. "aboot". Thanks Buddy. ;) hahah.

That was an absolutely BRILLIANT documentary; yes it came from that, only because it's completely and utterly relevant to this conversation.

And although I'm not Canadian, I beleive wholefartedly that everyone should say "aboot" instead of "about".

[SamAlex728]

People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS. The bible is the word of God, told through the pens of men. Or should I say tablets of men, seeing as that's what they wrote with then.

"Abomination" and "unnatural" to people who wrote the bible then, meant "not culturally normal".

What do I READ when I see Leviticus 18:22 "A man lying with another man is an abomination, let the blood be on their own heads"?

"Homosexuality is not culturally normal, but if they feel it is right, then it is up to them to choose to accept it."

Plus, Jesus and the bible has some good things to say aboot gay people ( www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com (http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com) )

No I'm not religious but I don't think the bible is full of shit.

A NON RELIGIOUS MINISTER!!! STONE HER! (kidding to the max).

The stuff in bold.

Did you get "People mistake what the bible READS with what the bible SAYS" from the documentary I posted a while back? Cause thats one of the lines that stuck with me too. *Diving hug*

Way to stay true to us Canadians. "aboot". Thanks Buddy. ;) hahah.

That was an absolutely BRILLIANT documentary; yes it came from that, only because it's completely and utterly relevant to this conversation.

And although I'm not Canadian, I beleive wholefartedly that everyone should say "aboot" instead of "about".
i love that word :icon_bigg

[Paladin]

The FIRST CHRISTIAN was the LAST CHRISTIAN, and HE DIED ON THE CROSS.

Something to think about.... Paladin

[JSG]

Christianity seems to be a religion based on unhappiness, fear (of hell), hate, and living a boring restricted life.
I prefer religions from the far east, with their amazing stories, huge festivals and their love for life and all things good (including sex for the Hindu :p).

[Vampyrecat]

I actually think that religion can be really good if it leads to a life of personal fulfillment and a desire to treat people well.

However, I know this is slightly contradictory, but I don't think we should be treating each other with respect and kindness only out of fear from God and the afterlife.

[wivoyager]

I think that a more apporpriate title to the thread, and a less offensive one to us, would be "Those that use the Bible to condemn gays are full of shit"

To me, the bible is a book. It's something that can bring good if followed correctly, or bad if followed incorrectly. It's like a diet book. It only works if you believe in the outcome and the information within it. If you incorporate it to fit your lifestyle and yourself, then it can be beneficial.

I just think that the world really needs to calm down and act a little more immature, lol. More people should adopt the "Who cares?" aspect when it comes to religion, in a respectfull way, religious and non-religous alike. It is time people become more independent in their views and stop following the orders and the misintrepretations of the past.

[Uncertain]

I don't believe in God.

But I hate it when people bash religion. It makes people seem just as close-minded as the 'religious people' who they claim to be ignorant. Not a single one of us fundamentally have a greater right or justification to demean or 'bash' another's faith because that reflects not on the accused, but the accuser himself/herself.

[Trumpetplyer23]

At one point in my life. I would have agreed with the Original Poster. But I don't anymore. For a couple of reasons. One, it is ignorant to bash people's religion. We don't like it when people bash us. Two, some people actually use it for good. I know Christians that help people in need and are not homophobic. Three, I don't really believe in the Bible, thus I can't call something I don't believe in, to be full of shit.

[Blaz]

Personally, I share many Christian beliefs. This guys is twisting words. READ the Bible befroe you take it out of context.

Show me your scripture, and I will twist it. . .

The bible doesn't say homosexuality is wrong, but people interpret it that way. . .

[Behling]

I spend a few days looking around online for passages of the bible that are bad, and after finding enough of them I'm starting to dislike the bible even more

[Uncertain]

Well, a the bible is a book written by the people for the people. It was the first (primitive) 'law' back them when people were still uncivilised and driven by instinct and some justification and basis for morality needs to be integrated into society - and what's better than deterrence from eternal damnation and promise to eternal grace with God?

Even now, many of these laws of morality are still universal and Western societies have undoubtedly molded many of their own laws into similar moral beliefs of Christianity. (although morality is universal - but that's for a different thread).

Yet, people fail to understand the book was there to govern the people in a time with a vastly different culture, and it was written by man. Even if it was inspired by God, we still need to be selective in what's pertinent to our society. Even if it's not inspired by God, it is rather odd how Christians have changed a faith with a diverse history of different practises into a whole faith of love and giving, while ignoring some inconsistencies in its content. But the love and giving are still values that are pertinent to our society and a good trait indeed.

Don't bash religion, but don't follow religion with blind obedience. Too much hate and ignorance are reflected through BOTH these types of people. Not one is better than the other.

[halfy]

Personally i do beleive in God but i have never read the bible. mainly because it's too long amd takes some translating from ye olden language. at the end of the day, people are prejugdiced out of their own fear but they will hide behind something else eg religion to jusitify their actions. eg in northern ireland there were a lot of fights between the protestants and catholics, it's not really to do with religion, they were just blindsided by rage and 'you attacked our group so now we're attacking your group'

look at football hooligans in england. leeds fans will fight man united fans. it's not to do with teams, they're just using that as an excuse. at the end of the day, you can twist any words any way you want. just look at politicians. it's just unfortunate that some prejudgiced people use the bible as a cover for their own hate. 'but the bible says it's wrong so it's ok for me to hate you'.

personally i do beleive in God and anytime i have ever needed Him and prayed for him, he has been there for me and got me through it all. i don't think that i need to go to church or follow a religion to beleive. at the end of the day, as long as you treat other people how you would like to be treated; you can't go wrong.