LGBTQ "Privilege"

I throughly enjoyed this post, kudos to you for writing it. Everyone has their own struggles, and everyone must overcome them in their own ways, and you laid that out perfectly.

 

If I've interpreted your post correctly, I agree, this tendency for one group of the LGBTQ to accuse another of having "privilege" has grown tiresome.

There seems to be a certain "queerer than thou" crowd that likes to pretend they have the right to dismiss the opinions of others and look down on them because they're just regular boring old 'privileged' "gay" rather than some fancy long newfangled label that's deserving of much more sympathy. Because Matthew Shepard being tied to a fence and beaten to death or Mark Carson being shot to death in a park for being gay just last month, is obviously a sign of what a privileged position gays have.

Everyone deserves equal respect and the right for their opinions to be heard.

I don't think anyone would dispute that trans people have to deal with a lot of shit that gays and lesbians and bisexuals don't have to, but that doesn't mean gays and lesbians are "privileged". Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.

Also, a personal pet peeve around here, but accusing someone of "cisgender privilege" is rude and offensive unless you're sure that person actually identifies as "cisgender". Just because someone does not identify as transsexual does not mean you can assume they are cisgender or that they fit neatly on the gender binary, nor does it mean that you are entitled to dismiss their opinions on gender as "privilege".

 

I love this post, and I love you for making it. Well said.

 

I will raise my hand and admit that I am the one who has used the phrase "totem pole" before to describe the LGBTQ "levels of privilege. I apologize if it was too simplistic or demeaning.

I think that in reality, there are so many factors that affect one's "privilege" in life that reducing how much you struggle in life based on one factor is naïve and simplistic. That said, if we were to map out all of the major conditions "society" has determined will affect your privilege (e.g. age, gender, sex, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, nationality, etc.) we would end up with a pretty convoluted three-dimensional graph. That said, I think we all struggle as humans in a race called life.

My understanding of this "totem pole" was brought about by the world I live in. So it is unique to one person, me, and it's a prescription lens unique to my worldview. Many people that I've encountered understand homosexuality, and some will even understand bisexuality; however, transgender issues almost always seem to be ignored by the mainstream," be it an LGBT-rights organization or government agency. As I said, the Human Rights Campaign got flak for not adding or encouraging the addition of trans* rights and protections to ENDA (I am aware their position has changed). That said, most people still consider LGBT rights as "gay" rights. Even government legislatures sometimes fail at this, in Texas, if I get killed for being gay, the prosecution can add additional charges on the defendants for the fact that it was a hate crime (good luck proving it, but at least it's on the books). We have no protection for someone who gets murdered for their gender identity, aside from the regular murder charges.

I don't purport to say that my life as a gay man is easier than that of a trans* person, but I will state that I from what I've seen, the level of "gay" rights is not on par with the current level of trans* rights. Every segment of society, the "mainstream" media, the LGBT community, the general public, has some blame for this happening; it's that marginalization of trans* issues that made me believe that the LGBT community is like a totem pole wherein certain segments of this community may be afforded greater "benefits" than others. I seriously apologize if my flawed understanding of the issues or my lack of tact caused you to lose your patience (*hug*).

 

Yeah I think it is definitely a problem with people assuming they know about another person's experiences and background and using those assumptions to dismiss them.

Tbh, some people seem to feel that, if you don't identify as transsexual, then you're not allowed to think about gender, have opinions on gender, talk about gender-related topics, because you're just ignorant and privileged and couldn't possibly have anything worthwhile to contribute. At least, that's how I've felt sometimes when I've tried to talk about it.

I think that's a shame. Every single one of us is affected by gender in our lives every day in everything we do, how we dress, how we speak, who we date. Like you say, even if you identify as "cis male", that doesn't mean you've enjoyed privilege from that.

I have no desire to physically alter my body sexually, but I have spent a lot of time thinking and reflecting upon the subject of gender, if I had to sum up my overall relationship to it, I would define myself as postgender. I dress however feminine I want to, I've been told I'm in the wrong bathroom, I've walked the streets in drag; but my opinions have no value here because of "cis privilege"?

Everyone on here has something to contribute to the topic. Merely by being gay, you have a unique minority experience of gender (you cannot be 100% cisgender if you are attracted to and date the wrong gender for yours, i.e., a man who dates men is 'living like a woman' in that regard) Very few people are fully cisgender, especially on a forum like this.

But yeah, this particular topic is just a pet peeve of mine because I really would like to have deep philosophical discussions about gender, but threads on here about it always crash into an iceberg of "privilege" accusations and assumptions of bad faith.

Yeah, and it can actually really hurt when people make baseless assumptions about you and how easy you've had it. It's treating you as some imagined stereotype rather than individual human being.

There was this one time where I happened to have a different opinion on a subject than some people who happened to be trans. Rather than exchange in discussion, one individual chose to dismiss me and instead rant about how "cis privilege people are talking over trans people". Besides the fact that this is an internet forum, and everyone has the equal right to press the post button without 'talking over' each other...

As someone with social anxiety disorder who has never 'talked over' anyone in my entire life, but been talked over thousands of times my whole life, the internet has pretty much been my only refuge to ever express my opinion on anything...so I wanted to tell this individual to "STFU, you don't know a thing about me"....but whatever, I held my tongue. I don't consider myself "cisgender" either, but apparently some people feel entitled to make those assumptions.

It is ironic that people would accuse someone of "privilege" to shame and silence that person, while at the same time claiming that they are the victims being talked over.

So yeah, the word "privilege" really needs to stop being overused every time someone says something you disagree with. It has its applications, but they are much more limited than some people on here seem to think.

 

Okay. Then respectually what, if not privilege, are we supposed to invoke to rebuke the hostile behavior of some gay, lesbian and cisgender folks towards multisexual, trans* or genderqueer folks?

Ziester Adrian

 

I just find it amazing that a group of people (LGBTQ* people) scrutinized by the vast majority of society to some degree for not being cis/straight work so hard to divide themselves even more.

If we want to be brutally honest from an neutral party perspective, they'd probably be saying that nobody under the LGBTQ* umbrella has any right to feel "high and mighty", given the fact we're all still considered worse than the vast majority of society.

Basically, I find it stupid that people somehow feel better by belittling others in their same rights movement. And I hear stories of this all the time on here about so-and-so IRL who is actually a giant dick besides being some sort of queer. I see it on here occasionally, but I've never directly experienced it, so I still find it appalling.

Anyways, very nice post.

 

This.

 

On specific points:

1) Lesbians don't have it easier because straight men find them to be sexual objects. That's just fetishizing them.
2) I don't enjoy straight privilege.

I'm not sure if you're saying things you actually believe or if you're just echoing the extremely caustic things other people are saying. But I very happily give you the benefit of the doubt here in the hope it's the latter.

 

I completely agree with this thread. It's really sad that too many people think that the human race is a competition. While competition has proved to have some benefits such as the computers we are currently typing on and the internet that has been provided to us so that we can post on this forum, we don't live on the planet of Alternia. We live about the same amount of time, and even so, personality doesn't have any link to how we physically are. We as a human race must learn that the person across the street from you is clearly different than you, and that it is perfectly okay. It seems fictional, but I stress this every time:

If we are visited by any lifeforms, it is clear that they have made much more progress than we have, and have probably made a great peace amongst their species. To look at our species and see it constantly bicker and fight would give them the message that nobody on this planet would be worth having a mutual bond to explore even more of the stars than we could ever imagine. At this point, we would have easily rendered ourselves useless to a great opportunity.

The totem pole has to be burned. It may look pretty, but pretty doesn't inherently mean "with good intention" or "with a great deal of humility" In fact, it usually means the opposite of both. The totem pole of society has to be burned, and every totem pole that has ever been created in all of human history has to be burned. Fighting about who's better than whom should be ancient history, but it's really sad to see it's not.

In High school, there was a kid I was convinced who hated me. There were some things he'd said about how he didn't like this person or that person, and he explained why. It basically seemed like he had a negative sense of everyone in general, except for a few people he considered friends. He didn't have totem-pole thinking, no. Here's why: When I told him I was convinced he hated me, he responded with "Why would I hate you if I don't know you?"

More people need to have that mindset. Not "hate this person or that person" no. What I'm saying is that, as this thread is saying, way too many people (and almost especially in the LGBT community), start generalizing things and making stereotypes of many unique people with many different personalities, and MOST of those people they have no clue about. And mostly because of that, we have things like racism, sexism, bigotry, anti-homosexuality, etc. And religion doesn't help with this in the slightest, as we all know.

I am fucking sick and tired of hearing people talk about and seeing people tweet and post of a couple incidences regarding a person, be it LGBT, black, a woman, a man, what have you and then making the claim "ALL X are BAD!" And then having a completely negative view on upon what they don't know to be thousands to millions of very different and unique people they'd never even heard of, lots of which don't fit the bill they tack them with.

Oh dear god, YES. I'm sick of this word, to be honest. Especially those who think we're demanding "special rights" because of our "privileges"

Okay. So I have the "privilege" to wake up every single day to know that if I step foot in ONE wrong spot, I could be shot and killed for my sexual orientation. I also have the "privilege" of not being able to marry the person I love in my state and be denied certain benefits while you can have your big fancy wedding that costs quite a few fortunes. I could go further than this, trust me.

Oh, and guess what?

I'm white, and was born with a penis.

/rant

You know, I was wondering if I was the only one who felt the same Things like this is exactly why I post here. I'm not really all that alone

---------- Post added 5th Jul 2013 at 04:42 PM ----------

This. Very this.

 

Would it be wrong of me to boil this all down to "Why can't people be judged on their individual merit?" and "Why do people feel the need to belittle one another?" That is what I am picking up anyway, correct me if I am wrong.

 

Thank you

thank you

thank you

 

"but that doesn't mean gays and lesbians are "privileged"

Yes it does. It is called cis privilege. There are many kinds of privilege. If you are not cis then WALAH! you don't have cis privilege. Its a spectrum thing as well. Passing trans people have exponentially more privilege than non-passing trans people, it is referred to as "passing privilege".

 

You're absolutely right. My own life is a very pretty cavalcade of features - some chosen (like not going to college), others innate (bisexuality), and still others the result of unexpected twists and turns from inside and out (having type 1 diabetes, being abused by my father). My straight friends have their own struggles. Some of my gay friends are perfectly happy with themselves and their lives. I have one pansexual friend who is overjoyed to be the person he is, but afraid for his future because he is just so darn unconventional and doesn't know what he'll be and where he's going. "Privilege" can not be whittled into a single facet. We all struggle, and when it comes to being queer, who on earth would want anything less than to stand together?

 

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things. There is no "privilege" to being gay or lesbian. So you're wrong.

And btw, it's spelled "voilà", not "walah". :eek:

 

Ok. Correct. When you were referring to gays and lesbians, I assumed cis gays and lesbians. IE. the people who are dicks to trans people and are often times worse than straight people about the whole thing. This doesn't change the fact that you are trying to sweep cis privilege under the rug as though it doesn't exist and shouldn't be talked about. It exists, its everywhere, its why people are deliberately retarded when talking about trans issues. I would be getting on you the same way if you claimed that straight privilege was some innocuous thing that doesn't need to be talked about. Or white privilege.

As for the OP. Addressing privilege is how things change. Saying "everyone has it tough" gets everyone exactly no where. "Sure, racism exists, but I have it bad to you know, so why should I care!"

 

Alright.. . This whole post needed to be said. We are a community, and it's absolutely ridiculous that we're tearing into each other, classing certain groups above and below others.

You, Gen, are my favorite person. I think you have mega-balls (metaphorical or otherwise) for writing this out and posting it.

 

No, what you're doing is ignoring everything the OP said, everything I said, and everything everyone else has said in this thread and inventing a strawman to attack.