Being gay a choice?

Hey guys I went to a Social Well Being Club yesterday in my school and the topic was sexuality. And a lot of the people their were saying sexuality is a choice and a way of life you choose what you want. They also said that your enviorment influences how your gunna be ex. If you are a male living with a female figure in your house you will turn out to be feminine. They also said that trauma causes sexuality and basically everyone believed that it is a choice and you can't be born gay. What are your views and reasons why? Any articles would be cool.


Discuss

[Gera-Kun]

well, i see it as sexuallity ISN'T a choice. if it was, i'd bea str8, lolies. but don't get me wrong, i LOVE being gay! i'm with the best guy in the whole world now and i love him alot! ^^ he says that there was an article saying that there's a gay gene. i can't find it tho, other ppl have...maybe i'm not looking right? :P

[beckyg]

You should print off some of the PFLAG publications to take with you next time.

[heatqueen]

Oh come on, being gay is a choice? Sorry but I gotta say no because I spent 2 years trying really hard to be straight, and did not succeed.

[Lexington]

My take.

Yes, there IS an element of choice involved in sexuality. I did not choose to BE gay. I'm attracted to men. That's how I'm wired. I didn't choose that. However, I did choose to LIVE gay. I chose to live by my programming. I could've denied that, forced myself to date women, maybe marry one, maybe have kids. But it would never have been natural to me. It would've been like walking on my hands every day. I might have eventually gotten OK at it, but it would always be awkward, and I always would want to walk on my feet. Living as I was built has made me a much better, much happier guy.

Lex

[pirateninja]

I agree with Lex on this one. I chose to come out, I choose to live my life out in the open now, I choose to tell people, I choose to go to Pride, I choose to wear rainbows, I choose to not keep my sexuality hidden.

I could still be lesbian and just keep it on the quiet. I could choose to pretend to like guys and date them instead. But like Lex said, it wouldn't feel right. It wouldn't be what I truly wanted.

I could compare it to school subjects. I want to study art and creative writing at university. I have been mocked for this, because they aren't traditionally academic subjects. I COULD choose to apply for sciences and maths at university, but it doesn't mean that I would enjoy studying them. I choose to apply for art and english courses because I know I will enjoy studying them.

I didn't choose to be gay any more than I chose what subjects I like. I could act like a straight science and maths student, but I choose to be and do what feels natural.

We don't choose what we truly like, we just like them. And the next time they say "being gay is a choice" ask them to either:

1. "choose" to be gay for just a day

2. explain when exactly they chose to be straight

[sdc91]

It's definitely not a choice. The only choice I made was to accept it.

As for nature vs. nurture, I don't even know. I think it's both because some twin pairs are straight/gay, straight/straight, gay/gay. Plus if it were totally genetic then people would want to find a "cure".

[Trumpetplyer23]

I did read something somewhere about the 'gay' gene. Do I believe it? No, not really.

As for the entire 'it's how you're raised', thing, I lived with both of my parents for thirteen years of my life. I already knew I was bisexual before my dad left, I came to terms with it about a year before he left, by the time he left, I was out to all of my friends.

why exactly would people choose to be a part of a group subjected to so much discrimination, etc, etc... if it was a choice.

and also... does that mean you choose to be straight?

i think its pretty obvious you cant choose who you like - im sure most people will have been in a situation where theyve liked someone they dont wanna like and it causes problems... and that can be same sex or not.

although i agree about the point about how you live - so in a way the lifestyle bit is a choice - but the ....**i dont know what youd call it**.... your actual orientation isnt.

also yeah the way youve been brought up can be important - and its how you associate things. like i dont go for really girly guys, but my bff does, so it can determine your tastes, but at the end of the day no i dont believe that your sexuality is a choice.

hope that makes sense =)


one of my favourite quotes... hanging around gay people will make you gay - like hanging around tall people makes you tall

[Zexion]

http://www.logcabin.org/lef/choice_white_paper.html <-- -really- insightful article.

From the article

-The Answer-

A bit of Biology 101: For every human trait they study, clinicians and biologists assemble what's called a "trait profile," the sum total of all the data they have gathered clinically (clinical research basically means research done through 1. questions and 2. empirical observation to answer the questions) about a trait. Researchers gather groups of subjects from different areas of the world, question them about their trait, observe the trait in them, and record the data. The various aspects of the trait are precisely described: gradations and variations in eye color are assessed, eye color's correlation or lack thereof with gender, geography, race, or age is noted, scientists observe the way eye color is passed down through generations—all of which are clues as to whether or not eye color is a biological trait. The data are summarized in papers and charts and published in the scientific literature. That, in sum, makes up the trait profile.

Here is the profile of a trait on which clinical research has been done for decades. It is taken from the published scientific literature. The trait should be rather obvious:

1) This human trait is referred to by biologists as a "stable bimorphism"— it shows up in all human populations as two orientations— expressed behaviorally.

2) The data clinicians have gathered says that around 92% of the population has the majority orientation, 8% has the minority orientation.

3) Evidence from art history suggests the incidence of the two different orientations has been constant for five millennia.

4) The trait has no external physical, bodily signs. That means you can't tell a person's orientation by looking at them. And the minority orientation appears in all races and ethnic groups.

5) Since the trait itself is internal and invisible, the only way to identify an orientation is by observing the behavior or the reflex that expresses it. However—and this is crucial—

6) –because the trait itself is not a "behavior" but an internal, invisible orientation, those with the minority orientation can hide, usually due to coercion or social pressure, by behaving as if they had the majority orientation. Several decades ago, those with the minority orientation were frequently forced to behave as if they had the majority orientation— but internally the orientation remained the same and as social pressures have lifted, people with the minority orientation have been able to openly express it.

7) Clinical observation makes it clear that neither orientation of this trait is a disease or mental illness. Neither is pathological in any observable way.

8) Neither orientation is chosen.

9) Signs of one's orientation are detectable very early in children, often, researchers have established, by age two or three. And one's orientation probably has been defined at the latest by age two, and quite possibly before birth.

These data indicated that the trait was biological, not social, in origin, so the clinicians systematically asked more questions. And these started revealing the genetic plans that lay underneath the trait:

10) Adoption studies show that the orientation of adopted children is unrelated to the orientation of their parents, demonstrating that the trait is not created by upbringing or society.

11) Twin studies show that pairs of identical twins, with their identical genes, have a higher-than-average chance of sharing the same orientation compared to pairs of randomly selected individuals; the average rate of this trait in any given population— it's called the "background rate"—is just under 8%, while the twin rate is just above 12%, more than 50% higher.

12) This trait's incidence of the minority orientation is strikingly higher in the male population— about 27% higher—than it is in the female population. Many genetic diseases, for reasons we now understand pretty well, are higher in men than women.

13) Like the trait called eye color, the familial studies conducted by scientists show that the minority orientation clearly "runs in families," handed down from parent to child.

14) This pattern shows a "maternal effect," a classic telltale of a genetic trait. The minority orientation, when it is expressed in men, appears to be passed down through the mother.

Put all this data together, and you've created the trait profile. The trait just described is, of course, handedness.

Right-handedness is the majority orientation, left-handedness, the minority. It's handedness for which lefties are 27% more numerous in men than women, the background rate of left-handedness is 12% as opposed to 8%, and left-handedness is an un-chosen, immutable, internal, instinctive orientation; you can force left-handed people to write with their right hands as was regularly done up through the 1950s in Catholic schools where left-handedness was believed to be evil and a moral failing, but that's just behavior masking the true orientation.

It turns out that the trait profile for human handedness is astonishingly similar to a profile clinicians and geneticists have assembled of another human trait—sexual orientation. Heterosexuality, the majority orientation, accounts for roughly 95 percent of us, while homosexuality, the minority orientation, accounts for roughly 5 percent. (The "10 percent gay" figure has always been merely a statistical concoction of some overly-aggressive gay activists.) Clinical research clearly shows that homosexuality is heritable, like left-handedness. Neither trait correlates with any environmental factors. All the twin studies indicate biology. (Just to make it clear: Everyone agrees that being right- or left-handed is a biological trait, but probably there are some genes creating handedness and some non-genetic biological factors like hormones and neural structure. Which is why with many identical twins, one twin is right-handed and the other left-handed. The same for sexual orientation in identical twins. But—surprise—with sexual orientation, both twins share the trait homosexuality more often than they do left-handedness—yet no one would claim this is evidence that left-handedness is a "chosen alternative lifestyle" because left-handedness isn't seen as a moral issue—any more. It used to be. Then society changed.) The sexual orientation, like the handedness, of adopted children bears no relationship to that of adoptive parents (a powerful control demonstrating that environment is not a factor in creating sexual orientation). And both show a "maternal effect" pointing towards the X chromosome.

(Btw, I 100% agree with Leigh.)

Bahaha it's definitely not a choice. I'm still trying to be only straight and it isn't working. This must mean that we can't flip flop at will.

[Steam Giant]

I think what a lot of people mean by the "homosexual lifestyle being a choice" is that, while sexual attraction to the same gender is not a choice, being openly gay is. I think the largest percentage of homophobes are okay with gay people as long as they are not open about it. To these people, I like to make cracks about them being too open about their heterosexuality :P

Do u have the site for these publications becky? it would really help open peoples minds up and how they think that it is "disgusting" to kiss the same sex. And thanks to all of you who responded.

Choice? no, but that doesn't mean nuture plays no role.(i know looking at my history you could point out events to "influence it") Supposedly everything about its is 50% nature, 50% nuture.

[shyguy626]

wow this info is great...but i dont think i chose to be of color did i? get it like you are who you are no matter what.... no one can take who you are away... it is a choice indeed to LIVE THIS LIFE BUT TO "BE" this life i chose not
Lj

[Wander]

I was never given a choice about my sexuality. There is no point in one's life where they get to choose how they want their emotions to run. You can choose to express them in any way you want, you can choose to try and change yourself, you can choose to hide from others to keep your secret, but you cannot choose to be gay.

[Wander]

Originally Posted by Steam Giant

sexual attraction to the same gender is not a choice, being openly gay is

I always get slightly irked by this phrase as well, though. Every time I hear someone use the words "openly gay", it's usually followed by something about how a person acts or speaks or dresses. I'm the least flamboyant gay person I know, yet I would consider myself openly gay because I do not make any effort to hide the truth. It's just chance that my natural way of acting does a good job of concealing it.

Not attacking you or anything, it just caught my eye.

[beckyg]

Originally Posted by Latinokid

Do u have the site for these publications becky? it would really help open peoples minds up and how they think that it is "disgusting" to kiss the same sex. And thanks to all of you who responded.

There is one called Be Yourself that answers questions about sexual orientation.

http://community.pflag.org/NETCOMMUN...=594&srcid=416

[ok455]

If being gay is a choice, Isn't being straight is a choice? i think if sexuality was a choice everyone wouldn't be 100 percent straight or gay we would all be dating any sex.

[Nerdtendo]

"Being straight = Choice" just as "Likeing Penut Butter = Choice". In other words, it's a preference. If you like something over the other, it really cant be helped. you can eat Penut butter, but if you dont like it, you wont enjoy it.