Back in "my day" only the gayest of gay guys came out. The guys for whom having sex with a woman was unthinkable and announcing that they were gay was telling people what they all knew already. Anyone (including myself) with an ounce of attraction to women held on to that and cherished it for dear life. lol. I still refuse to call myself gay in the spirit of being honest and open. It would in fact be easy to do so as I really am substantially (like four or five times) more into guys rendering my "heterosexual" side pretty irrelevant in a supposedly "post homophobic world (not)". So I call myself "predominantly homosexual". Now we see a slew of young guys coming out as "gay"......seems the fashionable thing to do in some places. My gaydar tells me a shedload of these guys are not entirely unattracted to woman (and some a fair bit into them). It seems a reversal of the past....if guys do it for someone (also) and that someone is male, presto, they can "pinkwash" that same-sex attraction and make it acceptable by calling themselves gay and entering that cosy little space society has created for such people....and of course trying not to get turned on by women and banishing such thoughts (as homosexuals once did) and effectively sending their hetero side "into the closet". Why is bisexuality so maligned? Does the idea that many of us are willing to swing either ways in the right circumstances terrify society that much. Why are young people being forced to "pick a side"? Is bisexual the new gay?
While I don't fully agree with your definition of gay (I think "enough into the same sex that your hetero urges are negligible" works just fine) you may have a point. I don't have enough experience with bi hatred to say I feel like a second-class citizen, it's not as readily acknowledged as gay. Most monosexual people just can't get their heads around the idea of being happy with both.
To kind of build on Swordsman's point, when I first came out as bisexual (fourteen years old, still identifying as a woman), I was under much pressure to "choose a side and stick with it" and wasn't taken seriously as a bisexual. So at the time, I began gradually calling myself a lesbian. It wasn't until recently, now figuring out my gender, that I even dared to acknowledge an attraction to men. So yes, I do believe that there is an enormous stigma bisexual individuals are forced to burden themselves with. Biphobia's rampart, though I've seen little of it outside of my home, and you also have cases of people coming out as bisexual only to later realize they're homosexual- making bisexuality seem "flighty" and perpetuating a typically false belief that bisexuals will always choose a side.
I suppose I feel that these young people are almost making a mistake of a similar nature to the one I made when I was young (but in reverse).....I suspect many are actually less gay than, say me, and rather bisexual. Sexuality is so fluid and individual and there are so many types of gayness and bisexuality. For instance my gayness seems to mirror a red-blooded heteros interest in women where I see hot young men (but not that young) as objects of desire. Some of these guys, I suspect, have a mix of hetero desires towards woman and a "feminine" need to validated by a man. They then rush to call themselves gay on that basis and deny their "straight urges". Maybe it is normal for many young men to have a desire to be validated by a man in the way a woman requires. Maybe it doesn't even make one gay? ---------- Post added 8th Aug 2013 at 04:57 PM ---------- I think we are confusing a normal need in many (but by no means all) young men for that type of male validation in a sexual context with gayness (where that condition is exclusive and life-long) or what I would define as masculine homosexuality (a condition where one essentially desires guys instead of girls...or one might say, one's girls...are guys). This in my view might lead to misery as many of these guys are forced to one day confront the fact that in the long term the gay lifestyle might fail them. ---------- Post added 8th Aug 2013 at 05:02 PM ---------- The obsession society has for males to prove their masculinity and part of that is to deny any need one might have to be the object of male desire as the most un-male and repugnant thing....and even today what appear to be liberal attitudes.....casts such a need as "gay"....rather than acknowledge the need in many guys for male sexual approval and accept it without denying those men female affection either.
I sorta understand where you are coming from. As a guy who's had a hard time with knowing which orientation tag best suit me. Hearing things like "the bi lie" and "pick a team " left me very discouraged because I thought why do you have to. Can't a person live with his or hers own sexual and emotional attractions? I guess the understanding of bisexuals are a work in progress. But I guess I'm glad to see a new understanding, some people just need to experience it experiment with there emotions and see what feels right, its not for everyone.
I have never seen firsthand any of the 'pick a team' kind of comments, but have heard of them. I think the whole thing is stupid. You like who you like, there are no teams. If you're into dudes & gals, so what? I hate when people say things like "you're not gay enough" and the like or feel like bisexuals are lying. Sorry for the rant, but that type of thing frustrates me.
I have personally heard a good few gay guys make the "bisexuals need to make up their mind" comment....to which I simply respond, why? Of course others love bi guys, especially ones that lean to women.
^ This. I'm not sure how apparent gay people pushing their "heterosexuality" into the closet is... It doesnt sound like it happens very often, or is noticable if it is... Like, I don't think ive ever seen or heard of an openly gay man who tries to hide the fact that he can't stop staring at women's private parts and getting erections. I came out as Bisexual before coming out as Gay. I would say im a kinsey 5.75/6. I do find women attractive. Some people question how I'm gay if i can say a woman looks pretty, or hot or w.e I'm not intersted in them sexually, i dont get an erection, and romantically I can't get close to women, or see myself with one Ever. Its a foreign thought to me. Before I came out as gay, i spent a TON of time thinking about whether or not I was attracted to women in a heterosexual way. Girls are beautiful creatures, and I can tell when a girl dresses nice, smells nice, does her hair, or is just plain sexy. I often tell people and give them blunt compliments because I can, but I'm not secretly "hitting" on them at all lol. I think some people would be offended that you think its the "fashionable thing" to come out as gay... No one's gaydar is 100% accurate, and while I do think the term has real meaning, its not something to rely on in this case... (telling how "into women" gay men are...) Honestly, i would wager more people come out as Bisexual than Gay because in some places, being Gay has more stigma. Biphobia is just as bad as homophobia, but both depend where you are. I don't know of many places where people are biphobic, but not homophobic. (except maybe unfortunately in some gay communities because people (yes even gay people) can be stupid and hypocritical. I do know some places where people are homphobic, but not exactly biphobic. This is the reason people (like me) have come out to people as Bisexual for the sake of more acceptance. It really all just depends on the location in the end. I believe no one should have to pick a side. You don't even ever have to tell anyone your sexual orientation or declare it if you don't want to. I like being openly gay, and i happen to be not sexually or romantically attracted to women, but immensely both to men, so the label works for me personally. Aesthetically, I find all people beautiful (female, male, intersex, etc etc.) but that isnt the point of a "sexual" orientation :lol: It is possible that people might come out as Gay for fear of being thought as Bisexual, and maybe some people might come out as Gay without being sure and realize later they are bisexual, or maybe even straight and have just gone through a phase. I for sure thought for 2 years before I came out as gay after coming out as Bi. When i came out as gay, it didn't feel real and I needed to re-evalute myself to see if i was infact bi, (couldn't be straight lol, my male attractions are too hard to deny/too obvious) I'm gay People get confused is all, it doesnt always have to be a matter of people being afraid of labeling themselves, but if they are so be it.
In terms of personal sexuality I'm at a complete standstill, right now I silently wish I'm A-Sexual(no interest in sex, like some plants) because to find an accurate lablel for myself is taking too long and I never realised it was this much of a process and its really complicated. On the Kinsey I'm rated a 3 which means Bisexual I believe. Keep in mind I haven given experimentation a chance yet only ever made out with girls, haven't slept with any either. But if I see a really cute guy I'll stare bullet holes into him. I don't understand why this is happening and when asked if I'm (anything sexuality related) I just reply, "I don't know yet". This infuriates people slighty older than who were trying to persue as I display no sexual interest towards them....but then smoking girl or a cute guy walks past n I think hmm :bang: Sexuality is pretty frustrating and intense, but at the same time I enjoy learning things and its interesting cause I get see some really interesting human behaviour. No ome should forcefully apply any label to anybody, and no one should apply a label to themselves until they are ready, comfortable, and happy with their feelings and attractions etc. I for one rejected my thoughts towards guys at 1st. The minute I accepted the possibilty of being in a relationship with either a guy or a girl in the future gave me my excited tingle:eusa_danc It made me realise its okay to love someone out of the ordinary. Its okay to be out of the ordinary, if I could blindfold and just watch them get to know each other and see who would fall in love with who and their reactions would be. I hope this helps Formula. Peace
Gays to the left of me, straights to the right, here I am (stuck in the middle with you). TLDR section at the end. Primarily people I've come out as bi to were my girlfriends. Typically they didn't take it very seriously. I mean if you are in a monogamous relationship it is pretty irrelevant. My first sexual experience was actually with a guy. I think we were both about 14 years old, we were headed to his place to hang out after school, and on the bus he came out as bi to me. So I came out as bi to him (by that point I had already done the cybersex thing, with both guys and girls). And even though I didn't feel all that attracted to him there was almost this feeling of obligation, that we had to experiment together, because we were both bi. The surface was hardly even scratched, and it felt very awkward because he clearly wanted me (plus he was very pushy, sexually) but I had my eye on another guy, and about a dozen girls. Looking back though, up until this point, women in my life have almost served as a monument to overcompensation. And even though there's plenty of fond memories, these days I've started to wonder, was I chasing after the women with such fervor, or running away from ever having to come out to my homophobic father? And when I tried to bring up our little 'experience' later in life (with that guy from when I was 14) he denied it ever having happened. And my dad managed to mess me up pretty good. For my sexually defining years I was in love with a man, but ashamed and afraid of that love, but acted sexually with women, with very little discretion and very little heart, and I felt proud of myself at the time; because it puts a shit-eating grin on my father's face to think "all my boys turned out straight". And even up until I was about 20-21ish, that conditioning by my father still had me in a vice. And I still hate myself for that. Because I had 1 day where all of my dreams came true, the guy who I had been in love with all those years came out to me, and he was interested in me. I took him out to lunch, then we went back to my place, and in one single intimate moment everything felt so right. For so many years I told myself, I could be "out" if he requited my love. But all of that fear and shame that my father taught me to feel poured into that room. I tried so hard to get it out of my head, but I ended up making an excuse to send him off. Then I told him over ICQ (bonus points if you know what that is) that I don't think "that" should happen again, because I was seeing some chick (which I kind of was) and that it was getting serious (which it really wasn't). I immediately regretted what I did. He ended up moving away. I ended up making things official with that chick I was seeing (It didn't work out in the end), even though I didn't feel all that seriously about her. I took the path of least resistance. I stuffed myself back in the closet completely. My new out line went from "I'm bisexual" to "I tried the other thing, so I know for sure I'm straight now." and up until about a year ago I stayed in denial about it. That guy moved back, and many years of experience had shaped us into completely different people. We hung out a couple of times recently (more like we both hung out with a mutual friend), but what was once there was gone. And only just very recently, within the past few months have I started being honest with myself. That tendency towards fear, shame and denial was a wrecking ball for the truest and most intense love I ever knew. In all these years I've managed to develop so many stupid habits. Like it's difficult to look men in the eyes because I'm afraid if I look too long I might seem 'interested'. And I know it's stupid. TLDR So I have to wonder how many bisexual guys found themselves confronted with the same choice as me: Behind door #1 (Bisexuality): Shame, fear, confusion. Behind door #2 ("Straight"): Safety and incomplete personal fulfillment. Behind door #3 ("Gay"): Maybe not as safe as door #2, but given the strength and momentum of the gay rights movement it's definitely a safe haven from shame. So I think coming out as "bi" and being honest, and not denying it or coming out as "gay" to save everyone the confusion, requires one to be surrounded by open minded people, which I was not.
OP: You're honest. A lot of people wants things to be black and white, when we know things aren't always black and white, so THEY can deal with it. It's about them and their comfort level. In reality, it's about you. We all acknowledge sexuality is a continuum. Where anybody lands, and for what reasons, is that person's own business. If you want to look at the media, the only major star who I think was given a "pass" on his bisexuality seems to have been Marlon Brando, and maybe a few others. I'm sure there were reasons for that, though I don't know what they would have been. Now, it seems to be more of a big deal than it was in the past. I could believe that some of these famous stars from yesterday were bisexual. Some of them claimed that they were getting hit on by everyone 24/7, tried all sorts of things, and enjoyed them. Big deal.
Yep...seems the choice is, out one-self as "gay" and one is awarded instant "victim" status, out oneself as "bisexual" and one is accused of being untrustworthy, debauched and over-sexed
I think the human race in itself is slightly Bisexual at best, you mentioned yourself you have some Bi tendencies as well. I for one only noticed my gay/bi quirks until May of earlier this year when I joined. One thing to mention that if you believe that the people are not 100% gay, then that would obviously mean that people aren't necessarily 100% straight. Proven fact; 70% of women who Identify as straight have admitted to having emotional same sex crushes in their past. No such statistic exists for men, but there is another poster here who practically confirms that men maybe are after all and it might be a case of simply owning up to it. Basically, I think there are a few exceptions for everyone and that not everyone is 100% gay/straight/bi. I only identify as straight because from what I know so far is my emotional and sexual attraction to women, but I cannot say any for men, which is normal for a hetero, but I am accepting of the possibility and what not that there is ONE exception, baiscally; proof that maybe it is best not to label sexuality in general.
I think it is ridiculous that some people don't accept bisexuals. Like just because we can get attracted to both sexes it doesn't mean that we have to make up our minds etc. Hey, we are also part of the LGBT community so accept us too lol x]
