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For LGB Trans

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by gravechild, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. gravechild

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    Would you say your gender or sexuality became apparent to you first?

    Which came as more of a struggle or a surprise for you?

    Has anyone flip flopped in their journey? For instance, you hear sometimes of lesbians sometimes coming out later as straight transmen, or gay men coming out as straight transwomen.

    How important is it to be recognized by your actual gender, rather than assigned by birth body?

    Is the sense of dysphoria strong enough to make transitioning all the way mandatory, or not?

    Finally, if you have any tips for someone who is at the very least bi-gendered, but isn't quite ready to take that "plunge" yet, it would help a lot. Some days I feel I just have to pass, even partially.

    That's all for now. Thanks!
     
  2. drwinchester

    drwinchester Guest

    For me, personally, it was my sexuality I figured out first. I identified as bisexual, then later as a lesbian. It was through becoming involved with the LGBT community that I actually learned what it meant to be transgender and after reading about FtM transitioning, I began to question my gender when I realized how well I related and how much I wanted what they had- a male body.

    I would definitely say my gender's been more of a struggle. After all, you don't medically transition to become a lesbian. :wink:

    As for how important transition is to me, I would kill for it. Being seen as female day after day is draining, if not outright depressing. I hate my body, hate hearing the words "she" and "her" being plastered onto me and would like nothing more than to be seen as a man and have a male body.

    I plan on taking hormones, bare minimum. Top surgery, since my chest makes me dysphoric as well. I'm considering bottom surgery because I'm dysphoric about that as well, to the point where sexual arousal is next to impossible to achieve, but bottom surgery isn't to the point for transmen where I'd have something close to the function I desire.

    I think the question to ask yourself is what you want and how you'd want to be percieved overall. That, right there, is the big ticket.
     
  3. Hexagon

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    Gender. Gender, for me, as for most people (I believe), is much more fundamental to my sense of self and how I interact with the world than gender is. I can't honestly say either was surprising. They were more of a sense of alignment with the words I had and my intrinsic understanding of my personal world. Gender was certainly more difficult, being that it caused me horrible dysphoria, and transitioning socially wasn't exactly easy.

    I first came out as a lesbian. I tried to deny the fact that I felt attraction to guys as well. This was before I understood about transitioning etc, and I was somewhat seduced into believing that lesbian=masculine, and thus assumed it was the closest I could ever get to my true self.

    Deeply important. If I can't have any kind of legitimacy in my identity, what point is there in transitioning? As I mentioned above, gender is important in the way we interact with the world - if everyone else refuses to recognise or allow these interactions that feel as natural to us as they do to cis-gender people, we feel... lost, depressed, ignored etc.

    For me, it was. Dysphoria is not a significant problem for me anymore, though.

    Some tips... hmm, I don't know. I'll leave passing tips to the women, since (I think, sorry if I'm wrong) that you were MAAB. As for transition, its always a more complicated question for the non-binary folk, because transitioning into a non-binary or fluid gender is so rarely accepted, you mostly fully transition, or don't at all. It comes down to whether you think life would be better or easier, or more true to you.
     
  4. Sarcastic Luck

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    Sexuality, for sure. I've always preferred men, though, as I've gotten older, I half wonder if I'm not bi. It depends on my mood, but the thought of having sex with a women doesn't always bother me. However, as a relationship? Couldn't do it.

    My gender is the struggle/surprise. I met a transguy on a game I play back in December and we started talking. I discovered a lot of things mirrored myself, though his dysphoria was a great deal worse. At that point, I started questioning my gender, and that questioning hasn't gone away. I found myself looking at chromosomal disorders as a reason for my confusion, but I exhibit none of the traits....I still do that, to be honest.

    I'm ok with being called either gender, but I honestly prefer my actual gender. Shit like being called "ma'am" makes me twitch though.

    I'm not sure about transitioning just yet. At the very least, I'd take T. I want to be perceived as male. Top surgery? Well, I'm flat enough that a sports bra flattens everything down, but I'd like to be able to go shirtless around the house. Bottom surgery? Probably not. The options pretty much suck.
     
  5. Niko

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    My sexuality came first. I was always attracted to men. I questioned myself if I liked girls too because of the way I was, but that only lasted a day.

    Gender was definitely more of a struggle for me. Since I can remember, I always had these feelings that I wasn't quite sure how to explain to anyone. I tried suppressing my feelings, telling myself it was just a phase and that I needed to get over the fact that I wouldn't be a male. I did this because I felt alone in the world, and I didn't want people seeing me as some sort of freak. Then I found out the term "transgender" later on in my life, and I was relieved to know I wasn't alone. And ever since I crave for the male body I've dreamed of even more so.

    Does being a straight- woman to a gay transman count as flip-flopping? xD

    As far as importance goes, I think pretty important. I die on the inside everytime someone misgenders me, and uses female pronouns; though I still respond to them like nothing is wrong, because I'm still not out to everyone. But when people call me a guy and use male pronouns...especially in public, I get a boost of happiness. Even if one person calls me by male pronouns, it makes my day.

    Personally my dysphoria fluctuates. Sometimes it's so unbareable that I break down and become an emotional wreck. Other times it's there, but it's not terrible. And then there are times where I have none at all and it triggers my self-doubt. But as of late it's gotten pretty bad, and I can't wait to have a flat chest and see a male-figure looking back at me in the mirror.

    For advice, I say just be yourself. Wear what makes you feel comfortable; and do it for you not for anyone else. I don't really have much else to say, because I'm not even passing as it is. I just look like a woman in men's clothing...it sucks.
     
  6. drwinchester

    drwinchester Guest

    Yeah. I second this. Despite briefly becoming a lipstick lesbian, I figured most lesbians wanted to be men. Back then (and by back then, I mean several months ago), I saw transmen as lesbians who couldn't accept themseves and thought I was "good" for being a woman who liked women.

    I was a transphobic shit head.

    I think the first time I ever really learned about being FtM was at my support group. Sure, I knew about Brandon Teena, knew there were transmen but in all honesty, I thought they were "fakers with bandages around their chest". I didn't know what dysphoria was. I'd wanted to be a boy since I was a kid but thought I was stupid for wanting it.

    Well. One of the facilitators was a gay transguy. I had no idea until he mentioned something about once being a girlscout. I never would have guessed he was transgender just by looking at him.

    At the time I was writing a book and planned to have a transwoman as part of the cast. Researching gender dysphoria and gender was what finally brought me into learning what it meant to be transgender. I questioned myself. A month later I found EC. After a week or so of lurking under a different account, I made this account and began to come to terms with being a man.
     
  7. justjade

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    Which came as more of a struggle or a surprise for you?

    Probably my gender. I'm a guy who was raised as a girl, and I've always loved guys. It was harder for me to accept that I'm a guy who likes guys, but I'm not sure why.

    Has anyone flip flopped in their journey? For instance, you hear sometimes of lesbians sometimes coming out later as straight transmen, or gay men coming out as straight transwomen.

    I really haven't. It's a funny thing. I did like girls at one point, but it didn't really stick. I mean, girls are sexy, but I can't date them.

    How important is it to be recognized by your actual gender, rather than assigned by birth body?

    My body is just a shell, but who I am is a man. I want to be recognized as a man, but for the most part, the body I have is fine.

    Is the sense of dysphoria strong enough to make transitioning all the way mandatory, or not?

    Not. I'd be comfortable just transitioning socially, although being able to get on T would be nice.

    Finally, if you have any tips for someone who is at the very least bi-gendered, but isn't quite ready to take that "plunge" yet, it would help a lot. Some days I feel I just have to pass, even partially.


    Just do whatever makes you comfortable. Test drive the lifestyle of your desired sex first. There's no need to rush or figure things out over night. Be patient with yourself.
     
  8. Naren

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    Sexuality, because I didn't know trans people existed. Darn you sheltered childhood.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Guest

    I'm unsure which came first but I was gravitated more towards speculating my sexuality opposed to my gender when I was younger and felt uncertainties about both.

    I first came out as bisexual as a young teenager, years later as a lesbian. I was still undecided between both because I had previously crushed on a non-binary person whom I frequently saw at my workplace and assumed that I couldn't be attracted to only women. Their presence also influenced my gender questioning.

    Since coming out about my gender, my sexuality has been least of my concerns. I just identify as queer. I have a preference for women, but I seemingly fall pretty hard for fellow genderqueers, and people who don't adhere to the binary (cis or trans). I don't flip-flop my sexual identity because I just happen to be an asexual pan/biromantic of sorts and that's fine with me.

    Regarding my gender, I was put into an environment with restrictive gender roles and was punished for not naturally fitting the mold. Up until that point, I'd never given much thought to my gender and was mostly able to ignore my body and the mild instances of gender dysphoria I experienced, such as the disorientation I would feel whenever I caught a glance of myself in a mirror because my perception of myself and the reality were so different.

    Then, when I was forced to face my gender and my body the discomfort with the gender I'd been assigned, all the little and big things became impossible for me to ignore. Of course, there were a lot of cis girls in the same situation who were perhaps just as (if not in different ways) uncomfortable with the restrictive gender roles we were being forced to conform to, and once I got out of that situation I had to adjust to normal life again, where women are allowed a much broader social role, and reevaluate if what I was experiencing was really gender dysphoria or if it was some combination of discomfort with restrictive gender roles and internalised misogyny that would go away if I could work through it. However mild my dysphoria had been before that experience, though, that time in my life opened the floodgates of gender dysphoria I'd not experienced before and the longer I tried to convince myself I was really a cis girl dealing with internalised misogyny or that even if I was transgender, I didn't perceive myself as a man so I wouldn't ever need to transition, the worse I felt. However, the physical gender dysphoria did not cease and was in fact getting worse. At that point I had to admit to myself that, while I can't perceive myself either a man or woman, I still needed to physically transition to cope with gender dysphoria.

    I am fairly apathetic now, otherwise, towards how people perceive my gender though I am extremely uncomfortable and as a rule avoid women's only spaces, especially as those spaces frequently exclude trans women who unlike me are, you know, actually women. I do cringe whenever I'm viewed upon as a woman, or if I'm referred by female pronouns, but I lean more towards the genderqueer side of the spectrum, so pronouns either exclusively for non-binary folks or male pronouns are fine with me. My only real priority with transitioning is becoming comfortable in my body.
    Personally, I love when I can fuck with someone's perceptions and make them all tongue-tied and embarrassed, and I've been told that I master androgyny so I take it as a compliment. I'd just rather not have people translate my androgyny for female-identified person who likes to play with gender occasionally. I'm still male, just on the GQ side.

    I do know some trans people who experience no bodily gender dysphoria and experience only social gender dysphoria. They don't all necessarily love their bodies but their bodies don't cause them any significant distress. Some of them are transitioning hormonally or through surgery as a method solving social dysphoria and some of them find other ways. Experiencing bodily gender dysphoria is a large part of many trans people's experience but it's not a constant. Social dysphoria can and does play just as significant a role for a lot of people.

    Dysphoria for me manifests whenever I hear the sound of my own voice, feel the curves of my hips, and occasionally my chest. I bind around 80% of the time, and though my breasts don't cause me significant dysphoria unlike for most FAAB trans people, I'm still going to opt for top surgery. I can tolerate them, but I'd still prefer to have them gone. Bottom surgery isn't a priority to me at all. Of course, I'd prefer a penis instead of a vagina, but I'm indifferent.

    I'm currently on hormones and have been for a little over 2 months now, and hormones were the minimum for me. I'd suspect my maximum would be top surgery.
     
  10. Daydreamer1

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    It's hard to say. I always felt male since I was a very little kid, like me throwing the biggest temper tantrums in daycare over gender assigned tasks and all that jazz. I was such a problem child back then.

    However, it never occurred to me until I was an out pansexual at 14 that I had an interest in guys and girls back in said younger years (like I was four or five when I realized I had the hots for my guy friends and chicks on TV). So yeah, I never could fit in or identify as gay because I was playing for both teams and I didn't even know it until I was 11.

    But if I really had to say, it was my gender.

    Oh fuck questions!

    Would you say your gender or sexuality became apparent to you first?
    - My gender became more apparent to me. I knew I was male and something wasn't right. The whole ordeal was made more real to me when I learned the whole "difference between guys and girls" and that was a nightmare.

    Which came as more of a struggle or a surprise for you?
    - My sexuality wasn't really a struggle. Sure I was forced into the closet for a while, but after I was surrounded by LGB people, I felt safe to be open. Gender wise, it has been hell. I've been hospitalized three times in under 90 days because of how badly my dysphoria affects me, and I'm doing my best to avoid another hospitalization. It's not fun, with every day being a battle of uncertainty.

    Has anyone flip flopped in their journey? For instance, you hear sometimes of lesbians sometimes coming out later as straight transmen, or gay men coming out as straight transwomen.
    - Not really. Until I heard the definition at 12/16, I was always bisexual/pansexual identified. I never once considered myself to be a gay man or a lesbian; EVER (the only time I ever remember calling myself a girl was because of some internalized transphobia I had). Sure I had my moments where I shifted on the spectrum (leaning towards gay predominantly), but nothing to make me flat out say "Holy shit guys, I'm a gay guy!"

    How important is it to be recognized by your actual gender, rather than assigned by birth body?
    - Critical. Saying anything else would be an understatement. As I said, these last three years have been some of the most difficult for me, from my dysphoria to me being hospitalized for suicidal ideation because it's so hard for me to get through the day as a transman. In my mind, a lot of people don't see the importance or severity of me being needed to be recognized as my true gender. I'm pretty sure if things remain the same, I'll be in the hospital again or worse.

    Is the sense of dysphoria strong enough to make transitioning all the way mandatory, or not?
    - Eh, depends on the person. Dysphoria varies. When I first heard about SRS when I was 9, I knew I wanted to go as far as I could. At 16, I felt like I'd only need top surgery and I would be content. Now at 19 (almost 20), I have a feeling top surgery will ease some of the dysphoria, but my bottom dysphoria will bite back harder and I'll have to get it taken care of. It's all about how the person feels in the end.

    Finally, if you have any tips for someone who is at the very least bi-gendered, but isn't quite ready to take that "plunge" yet, it would help a lot. Some days I feel I just have to pass, even partially.
    - Just take time to do soul searching and deep introspective thinking. You might learn more about yourself than you thought you would or would have liked to have known. Do what feels right in your heart, as cheesy as it is.
     
    #10 Daydreamer1, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  11. Just Jess

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    Would you say your gender or sexuality became apparent to you first?

    This is going to contradict my second answer, but gender.

    Which came as more of a struggle or a surprise for you?

    Gender. I had a good idea who I was early on. But... I want to say starting in about 4th grade was when I really started fighting it. Way way later in my late 20s was when I realized I was just undeniably trans.

    Has anyone flip flopped in their journey? For instance, you hear sometimes of lesbians sometimes coming out later as straight transmen, or gay men coming out as straight transwomen.

    Not sure I qualify. I'm entering the LGB world with my transition, not leaving it behind or staying in. I did have a female partner before I started transition though.

    How important is it to be recognized by your actual gender, rather than assigned by birth body?

    More and more so every single time I hear the word "sir". I had no idea it would come to affect me that much.

    Is the sense of dysphoria strong enough to make transitioning all the way mandatory, or not?

    Well just some perspective... the idea of SRS is actually nowhere near the most difficult idea for me. I think the two reasons people put it on the top of the totem pole are one, that it's still the hardest to get both as far as money and permissions, and two, I think it's more common for people that aren't trans (although some people that are trans do feel this way of course) to be really attached to their birth equipment.

    So to put this plainly, "all the way" is something that has always sounded incredibly awesome. I don't have to be sold on getting rid of "the darn thing" as I like to call it.

    To answer the question in a way I think is more fair, my dysphoria is bad enough that I choose to present as female in a body that hasn't had the benefit of hormones for very long, or any surgeries (unless hair removal counts), and tend to gravitate toward friends that are willing to use my chosen name and gender me female.

    Finally, if you have any tips for someone who is at the very least bi-gendered, but isn't quite ready to take that "plunge" yet, it would help a lot. Some days I feel I just have to pass, even partially.

    Just be you. That's what being trans is about to me. Just taking who I am, and running with it instead of fighting it all the time. She isn't someone to be ashamed of, and she isn't so terrified that she's wearing her male identity like a suit of armor any more. Yes I have a body that's pumping what I consider a very powerful drug into my veins all the time, and yes I'd like some medical help getting rid of the drug factory. But I don't need any of that to be the woman I am.

    And while this is more observation than personal experience. If you turn out to be genderfluid, or bi-gender, or something else that people just aren't going to get. Don't feel like you have to explain yourself to someone with no frame of reference. You are who you are whether it makes sense to anyone else or not. Again the important thing is to be yourself. Even if who you are changes over time.
     
  12. Kat 5

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    Some small hints of the "Dang. I wish I was a girl." stuff came around when I was 6. I am just now starting to question my sexuality.
     
  13. An Gentleman

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    Would you say your gender or sexuality became apparent to you first?
    Gender. I'm only assigning myself as a 3 on the Kinsey scale because that's what I think it is- I'm still sort of unsure.
    Which came as more of a struggle or a surprise for you?
    Gender issues are a struggle. It's not that suprising- my revelation was slow, but there were clues ever since the age of 7-8. I'm pretty positive I know what I am when it comes to gender. I didn't have enough materials to bind today and it's horribly uncomfortable. I don't even have a real binder yet! I can't move without noticing the difference... FML, dude. What sick person would give a guy m00bs? Answer: N00bs, that's who.
    Has anyone flip flopped in their journey? For instance, you hear sometimes of lesbians sometimes coming out later as straight transmen, or gay men coming out as straight transwomen.
    No, I didn't flip-flop. I can figure out my sexuality after I create a body I can live in.
    How important is it to be recognized by your actual gender, rather than assigned by birth body?
    For me, things are mostly physical. Social things are annoying, but the physical things are torture. When I start transitioning, I'd place a lot more importance on passing, but for now, I'm trying to start. The endocrinologist isn't setting up an appointment until June! I should do what I can to fix things up.
    Is the sense of dysphoria strong enough to make transitioning all the way mandatory, or not?
    Yes. It's mandatory. Passing, 'mones, top surgery, then bottom surgery when surgeries are advanced enough. You know, the usual.

    [NECROBUMP] Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention, Kat 5.
     
    #13 An Gentleman, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014