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This "food stamp" debate

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by AwesomGaytheist, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. AwesomGaytheist

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    What pisses me off is when Republicans say "Everybody on food stamps is just lazy and refuses to get a job. We need to cut off all food stamps and any form of government assistance to force people to get to work."

    Almost everybody on food stamps falls into at least one of four main categories:

    1. They're a child.
    2. They're disabled and can't work.
    3. They have a job but their income is so low that they still qualify for food stamps
    4. They're out of work and unemployment has run out.

    My aunt has fibromyalgia, a neurological and muscular disorder that causes chronic pain and itching with no real reason for it. Working is out of the question for the former teacher and social worker, and her wife works for the county, which doesn't pay well. Needless to say, she does get SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program), formerly known as "Food Stamps" and she's trying to get disability, which is proving to be very hard.

    This stuff pisses me off.
     
  2. Rakkaus

    Rakkaus Guest

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    The Republicans are also shameless hypocrites, since most of the poorest counties in the United States, with the highest percentage of food stamp recipients...are conservative Republican counties. These people vote against their own economic interests because of God and abortion and gays.
     
  3. RainyViolinist

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    Food stamps are necessary and a great idea, but the way the government regulates how they give them is sloppy. Why are they so blind in who gets food stamps?! Although this isn't all of the people who use them, there is a sizeable portion of the people who use welfare money and food stamps to get their drug fix and are able to abuse and take adavantage of the system. I fail to see why background and drug tests are not prerequisites for getting this government aid.

    My mom, who works at a pharmacy in a poverty-ridden area in Philadelphia, sees people with iPhones paying for things with food stamps! It's completely ridiculous! Government aid is meant to help someone get back on their feet or help those who cannot work, not for people too lazy to work and want to leech off of taxpayers. At least, that's how I see it. The system has good intentions, but sone people don't.
     
  4. AwesomGaytheist

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    In most states, it's impossible to sell food stamps. Here in Michigan, you get what's like a debit card, where when you buy your food, you swipe the card and enter your PIN, and my friend who once worked as a cashier at a Kroger store said that a picture of the person comes up on the screen to make sure you're the rightful owner of the card.

    Most people I've seen on food stamps had a crappy flip phone and drove around in an Oldsmobile built when Jimmy Carter was President.
     
  5. Fugs

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    Once I'm on them they'll be my only source of food, so the Republicans that say that can go screw off. It's not my fault that I'm disabled, I didn't ask for my brain to be fucked up.
     
  6. Kirito

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    The way most people treat conservatives and republicans on this website is comparable to how some people treat LGBT people outside of this forum. You should all be ashamed, but won't be. Not all Republicans claim food stamps are for lazy people and not all of them are religious. They aren't hypocrites if they're poor and republican and that's the only reason they're hypocrites in your eyes...there are economic theories that state tax cuts to all, including the rich, benefit the whole economy, including the poor, because the rich are the ones supplying the jobs in most cases. But obviously these are theories you don't believe in. If you're poor and republican, then you're a hypocrite. If you're poor and a democrat you deserve sympathy. If you're rich and a republican, then you're selfish, and if you're rich and a democrat you're selfless??? Wow.

    Regardless, it's not my intention to motivate you to have more conservative views, only to make sure you understand there are many reasons why one might join or vote for a party and that stereotypes in politics are just as bad as LGBT and other stereotypes. I could be republican cause I support a larger military and not be religious and gay...is that hypocritical? There isn't a party that fits most view's of one person perfectly, can't we just stop the bashing? Or have you guys not heard enough of it for being LGBT?

    We couldn't start a good stamp topic without mentioning the word "republican"?

    No, I do not support food stamps. I believe in supply-side economics. I value innovation more...but I guess that would make me a hypocrite in some eyes, after all I'm gay but my political party isn't that supportive of that kind of thing.
     
  7. BryanM

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    For the republicans not wanting food stamps, the solution is very simple. Make the minimum wage a living wage of at least 15$/Hour, increase disabled and unemployed benefits, put people first, not big business, and do what is right and make sure there are no hungry kids. If your party is so pro-life, why is it that you don't give a crap about the unborn fetus when it's a child?
     
  8. RainyViolinist

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    I don't think that we should be putting political parties in this kind of thing because I'm sure that not all Republicans want to abolish food stamps like not all Democrats support gay marriage. Heck, my dad who's a Republican was on food stamps when he first came to America. I think views on welfare and the like should not be based on your political party but what an individual believes is right.
     
  9. Kirito

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    How about we lower the minimum wage, get rid of unreasonable disabled and unemployed benefits, and let the people take care of themselves by deciding what they want to do with their own money instead of taking their money and then deciding what they need for them. I don't care about abortion stances of republicans...don't you guys get it? You don't have to agree with everything a party stands for, but you can still vote for them...Why am I fighting for conservatives on a LBGT forum, that's like fighting for gays with most conservatives. But of course, none of us noknow how that feels...

    If people are sick or for some reason can't support themselves, I feel sympathy for you, but not enough to vote for my government to use public money for it. For the unemployed, I believe with less government spending and lower taxes a better economy will ensue, so just hold on there. Help is coming indirectly. So in my opinion, no food stamps are not a good use of public money.

    ---------- Post added 31st Aug 2013 at 02:41 PM ----------

    I agree. We could have had a discussion on just food stamps without bringing political parties into this.
     
  10. AwesomGaytheist

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    The thing is, there's a huge push to change the tax code to a flat 15% tax rate, with no deductions. 15% of whatever you make, you pay in taxes. People jump on board blindly saying "Yay! a tax cut!"

    Not exactly, here's the math:

    Someone making minimum wage:

    Current system-$934. 15% "fair tax": $2262

    Someone making $100,000 with a stay-at-home spouse and 2 kids:

    Current system-$9858 15% "fair tax": $15,000

    Someone making $1,000,000, single, no spouse, no kids:

    Current system-$351,348 15% "fair tax": $150,000

    _________________________

    So you see, this "fair tax" plan pushed by rabid conservatives such as Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and Marco Rubio is anything but "fair," as it shifts the tax burden directly onto the people who should really be paying less in taxes.

    Trickle-down economics was what led to the 1929 stock market crash which led to the Great Depression, as it created a huge income gap between the rich and middle class. The middle class then started abusing credit to get the things they wanted, which led to an artificial economic boom known as the Roaring Twenties. Then on October 29, 1929, reality came crashing down which started the Great Depression. This lasted 12 years until Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese. The United States Congress declared war, and the war economy took off building tanks and planes and other war supplies, ending the Great Depression.

    Fast forward 60 years to 2006. After a decade of deregulation of huge banks and mortgage companies, which was supported by Republicans, said companies had been loaning outrageous amounts of money to people who could never in a million years afford the payments. All the mass foreclosures led to the bankruptcy of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Indymac, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Comerica, AIG, American Express, and hundreds more.

    Like a domino effect, the Big 3 were next, and the bankruptcies of GM, Ford, and Chrysler hit my state of Michigan hard. Now some people around here sport bumper stickers saying "Fight the feds, BUY A FORD," Their ignorance prevents them from knowing that if the government hadn't bailed out GM and Chrysler (who later paid their loans back in full), Michigan would have had a 20% unemployment rate. That's why I was pretty pissed at Mitt Romney for his "Let Detroit go bankrupt" statement.

    In the meantime, Republicans had plotted from day one of Barack Obama's presidency to show, and I quote, "United and unyielding opposition to the President's economic recovery agenda." Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell later stated, "Our top political priority should be to deny President Obama a second term." And so that's what they did and that's what they're doing. Obstruction didn't win the 2012 election, so they'll keep doing it, like intentionally sabotaging the economy to try and win the 2016 election will work just fine, when the real reason they hate the President is because he's black.

    Point is, my hatred for the GOP is fact-based, and rooted in issues that are close-to-home. The problem in this nation is that there's no party defection anymore. As we saw in South Carolina back in May, residents of the 1st Congressional District voted to send morally disgraced ex-governor Mark Sanford to the House of Representatives, despite his lack of family values, as while governor, he traveled to Argentina to boink his mistress and then told the public "He was hiking the Appalachian trail."

    Point is, the South will never again vote Democratic, and no matter what happens and how much damage and destruction Republicans do, the South and Mid America will always vote Republican. Unfortunately, 47% of America just doesn't get it that Republicans don't stand for anything but hatred, racism, obstructionism, and a failed economic theory that has caused the three biggest economic collapses in American history.
     
  11. Rakkaus

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    Perhaps in the UK and other European welfare states where there is consensus on such issues, it would be unnecessary to bring political parties into such a discussion.

    However, in the context of the United States, political parties certainly are relevant to this discussion. There are two major parties in the U.S., one of which is determined to cut food stamps and other welfare programs, and demonize those who use them. That party is the Republican Party.

    And it's been that way since Ronald Reagan got elected President of the United States scaring people with dubious tall tales about "welfare queens" living off the government.

    "She has eighty names, thirty addresses, twelve Social Security cards and is collecting veteran's benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she is collecting Social Security on her cards. She's got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000."
    --Ronald Reagan campaign speech

    Of course things have gotten much worse than even in Reagan's time, since the Republican Party has been taken over by the Tea Party in the past 4 years, the sort of people who cheer at the thought of letting vulnerable people die rather than spend any money to help them.
     
  12. RainyViolinist

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    You make a valid point, but I'm just saying you shouldn't lump all Republicans together as wanting to cut government aid. There are plenty of Republicans who are for it, just like there are plenty of Democrats who want to cut it. I just want you guys to remember that not all Republicans are terrible people you make them out to be.
     
  13. Hexagon

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    I find anti-benefit arguments absolutely disgusting.
     
  14. RainyViolinist

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    I just wanna ask you, do you think it should be ok to have drug screenings and background checks in order to get benefits? Kinda curious as to what you believe.
     
  15. Rakkaus

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    Well, the Republican Party is fundamentally opposed to the welfare state. That's what the leadership of the party believes, that's what the platform of the party endorses, and that's what elected Republican officials advocate for. Obviously not all rank-and-file Republicans endorse that view, but nevertheless it is the GOP's official view.

    Republican politicians who aren't sufficiently against food stamps and welfare find themselves primaried out of office by a very anti-welfare right-wing Republican base.
     
  16. Hexagon

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    Background checks for what? excluding those who are able to pay for themselves, what group of people shouldn't get benefits?

    As for what I believe, well, I don't believe in capitalism at all. And while benefits are a necessary and good thing in a capitalist economy, I still don't like the way things work.
     
  17. Aussie792

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    Lowering the minimum wage is one of the worst things you can do, along with things such as "work choices" (giving employers the right to do almost anything). And "unreasonable" unemployment and disability benefits are usually unreasonable because they're not enough. Even in a country like Australia, with far better services than the US, it's not enough. You're arguing for leaving people out in the cold because public money is apparently not supposed to go into helping the public.
     
  18. BMC77

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    I'm sure there are people who are abusing the system.

    But...just because a person has an iPhone doesn't automatically mean they are abusing the system. It may be a leftover from a better time in the person's life. It may be supplied by someone in the family to give a little help.

    It's like disabled parking places. Just because the person getting out of the car does not need a wheelchair does not mean he or she doesn't have a legitimate need for that slot.

    ---------- Post added 31st Aug 2013 at 03:59 PM ----------

    Well, they'll care again once the kid hits 18 and can join the military...
     
  19. RainyViolinist

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    Yeah, that does make sense, but the problem is their personality is a dead giveaway. I didn't mention that those people tended to be really self-entitled and bratty. If I were on food stamps out of need, I sure as hell wouldn't wouldn't complain loudly to my pharmacist about how they were so slow and incompetent. I am in no way saying that every person who is on food stamps is a leech because about 95% do really need it, but the few who are really make it obvious that they abuse the system.
     
  20. Rakkaus

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    Eh, even then they only care about the kid at that point insofar as he can be used as cannon fodder in a war.