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The New Pope

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Tic Code, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Tic Code

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    #1 Tic Code, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  2. Stripe101

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    ummmm... Cool?
     
  3. LinkLarkin

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    Didn't he previously say that it isn't okay to discriminate against gay people because it isn't a choice, but people who do still actively choose to act on their homosexuality are still an abomination? It's a centimetre in the right direction, perhaps, but it's going to be a long time before institutionalised homophobia is fully eradicated.
     
  4. sam the man

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    So, the pope is claiming he's against homosexuality, as are the teachings, but he wants institutionalised homophobia to stop and will not actively try to punish gay people? That's my understanding.

    Well... glad to know he's acknowledging LGBT as people, and going along the lines of free will rather than as god's arbiter on earth. That's something. In reality though, across such a vast and conservative organisation, I don't expect the RCC to be rid of homophobia for quite some time, given that it's taken them hundreds of years to acknowledge that being gay isn't a choice and that it is wrong to forcefully convert someone if they still don't agree with your views after you presented them to them...

    Well, it's a positive.
     
  5. Steve712

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    I won't be impressed until he calls for a reversal the Church's stance on contraceptives, which really is their most harmful policy.
     
    #5 Steve712, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  6. Aussie792

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    I agree. And with all their moral teachings, I don't see how hoarding some of the world's most valuable collections (particularly gold and other things they can part with), they can call themselves Christian. If they have money enough to refurbish palaces for their cardinals, they have enough money to assist food crises. I think they have enough money for both, really, but the poor aren't getting that much.
     
  7. blueberrymuffin

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    Wake me when there is no pope.
     
  8. I liked your comment so much more when I saw your avatar.
     
  9. Tic Code

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    Honestly, I was shocked to see even this acknowledgment. Obviously the change we want won't happen over night. And the Pope won't just change a religion 2000 year in the making with one statement. Nobody can know how much longer it will take for the RCC to change views, but I think it's safe to say it probably won't be for a long time. That said, I certainly didn't expect this statement, and even a small step in the right direction is better than running in place. Progress is progress, no matter how small it seems.
     
  10. AwesomGaytheist

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    There was one Catholic in my building who now thinks they should excommunicate Pope Francis over his statement today.
     
  11. Straight ally

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    It might not be a awesome position but...while for many extreme bigots consider homosexuality something like being a rapist or a murderer, for the Catholic church and many catholics, homosexuality is like being a drunkard or a compulsive smoker... So yeah its not a great thing to be in the same category as people with drinking problems but at least they are closer to understanding...its easier to talk to someone when they are not actively trying to kill you.

    Also, think of this: there are homophobes who would kill gay people if it wasnt punished by the law, many others who dont even care and do it, some who disown their childs and throw them out of home when they find out, people who beat their childs for it, people who send them to convertion therapy, people who yells you "fag**t", even people who rape LGTB people "to put them in their place"....and the list goes on and on....

    ...imagine if instead, all those people had the catholic stance, in practice and mentality, meaning no people trying to kill you, rape you, disown you, insult you or hate you for your orientation,...no place where coming out means death or prison (Uganda, Russia...) instead we would have confused ignorants who have an annoying loving stance of "love the sinner, hate the sin", who would like you to practice abstinence for life ... yes its annoying, but if that was the only problem of LGTB people, earth would be a gay heaven in comparison to what we have in reality.
     
  12. So lost

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    Finially a step forward
     
  13. GrandSummoner

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    I agree, this is definitely a step in the right direction. Radical change isn't going to happen overnight, but things are changing for the better bit by bit.
     
  14. blueberrymuffin

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    This is an interesting take on it I hadn't considered, but since you mention Uganda and Russia....who do you think is behind those oppressive laws? While on one hand you have the 'official' center of catholic policy very slowly becoming tolerant, on the other you have individuals like Scott Lively, funded (and tax free) by church goers, who shack up in 3rd world uganda pushing for extremely anti gay laws. Who do you think taught them these disgusting behaviors? Missionaries, at times going back centuries but still the responsibility of the church.

    What can the pope do about this? Cut off all ties and funding to catholic churches in Africa, russia and elsewhere that persecutes LGBT, until they leave the middle ages. Publicly shame them, perhaps a good old fashioned excommunication or two. At that point, i may concede that the Pope (or any pope) can be a force for good. Instead, he is simply following what others have achieved thru decades of suffering and activism.
     
  15. 2112

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    Catholics are usually the first group, sometimes pretending to be the second.
     
  16. LILuke

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    I was speaking to my pastor recently and he told me rather frankly that he thinks this is only a matter of time. As he put it, you can't be anti-contraceptive AND anti-abortion in today's day and age and expect to be taken seriously, it just doesn't work.

    On the subject of Pope Francis, this is a great step forward! Hopefully the first of many by this down-to-earth new Pope.
     
  17. AmityRanch

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    Pope Francis is mad awesome.
    I really can't get enough of the guy.
    He's so nice!
     
  18. Ridiculous

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    [​IMG]

    I thought the pope was infallible.
     
  19. Willjarvis

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    As I recall, an infallible statement has to be something the Church has supposedly believed since its inception anyway. We were told in school that there have only been two infallible statements in history, one stating that Mary was conceived without original sin and the other that she was "assumed" into Heaven rather than having died and left a body. I doubt the third official infallible statement would discuss something as worldly or frankly relevant to our own ethical choices as contraception or abortion.
     
  20. Ridiculous

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    Papal infallibility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error"
    i.e. the pope can't ever be wrong.