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Adoption Is Not An Alternative To Abortion

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by AmityRanch, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. AmityRanch

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  2. pokerface87

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    I agree, it most certainly is not. I fully support a womans right to choose.
     
  3. Ohhai

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    Definitely true x
     
  4. Minamimoto_Fan

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    Yeah, I hate how the Orphanages and Foster homes are already pushing what they can do because of all of the kids already in the system.

    I knew a guy in Sophomore year of High school that had a bad complex where he thought he was unwanted by everybody because he was raised in the Foster system because his mother gave him up for adoption. The poor guy tried to kill himself 3 times, I'm just glad that his girlfriend at the helped him as much as she had, you could hardly tell it was him because she and her family helped him out of his depression. He graduated that year, so I lost contact with him. I'd look him up, I honestly feel horrible about this, but I forgot his name D:
     
  5. AmityRanch

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    Dude, that's horrible.
    I'd hate to know what that's like, growing up without parents.
    Let's hope he gets better.
     
  6. flymetothemoon

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    I think I might be in the minority here, but I do consider myself to be more on the pro-life end of things. My thoughts aren't really that abortion is the alternative to adoption, but that doing something to not get pregnant (birth control, condoms, etc) is the alternative to getting pregnant. Obviously, in the case of something extreme like rape where the woman doesn't get that choice, that is a different case entirely, but most of the time, the alternative to the pregnancy is doing something in advance to prevent it. If you're really against it, do all the things you can to stop it. The odds are pretty good that if you use both both birth control and condoms, you aren't going to have an oops baby.

    Once you are pregnant (again, I am talking only in cases where there was a choice given about the sexual encounter), I would say it's time to stop considering if you want to endure a pregnancy because you put yourself in the position to get pregnant. It's now time to consider whether you want to parent or not.
     
  7. AwesomGaytheist

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    That's what I've always said. If I were female, I'd have an abortion over adoption any day, because with abortion, you don't go through 9 months of pregnancy and then the hell of labor and delivery. "Pro-lifers", especially men, until you've pushed a bowling ball out of your ass, then don't tell me that women should be forced to give birth.
     
  8. All41

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    Imagine the pain of finding out your father was a rapist and your mother gave you up. I'd rather someone never be born than have to learn something like this
     
  9. Yeah. This article makes a lot of good points.

    It really just boils down to bodily autonomy. If it is your body, you get to make decisions about what happens to it. This is why things like assault and rape are wrong--someone made a decision about what happens to someone else's body against their will. And that is wrong in all cases.

    This is why they make you sign consent forms for a lot of medical procedures. So they can do things to your body. They have to make sure you're allowing them to do it.

    I have a body, I get to make decisions about it. In my body is a uterus, I get to make decisions about it. If there was a fetus attached to my uterus, it is a part of my body and I get to make decisions about it. No one else can do that. The end.
     
  10. pokerface87

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    It seems you are more against abortion only in this instances where you are morally opposed to women having sex. If it is their choice to have sex, then abortion magically becomes wrong? Contraceptives are 99% effective, only if taken correctly, and by that statically 1 out of 100 women still get pregnant.
     
  11. Aussie792

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    I thought that this was the most obvious point of it all. But I am shocked that in the US, the actual birth costs money. In Australia, it's covered by public health or (reasonable) insurance, but that's absolutely disgusting that you have to pay to have a child because the anti-abortion lobby also tend to believe in private health.
     
  12. flymetothemoon

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    No, I'm not at all morally opposed to women having sex. I am opposed to women making the choice to end another life simply because it inconveniences their own when they made the choice that started that life to begin with. I think that women who make the choice to have sex but don't want to get pregnant should do whatever it takes to prevent the pregnancy in advance, and they should also be aware that by choosing to have sex there is a risk they could possibly get pregnant. I understand that contraceptives are only 99% effective when taken correctly, so if you are that absolutely 100% opposed to getting pregnant, I suggested you should use multiple means. From what I have heard, the chances of getting pregnant while using both is about 1/1000. If that's still too risky for you, then you can chart your cycles and avoid sex while ovulating. If I can chart symptoms and cycles to find out when I am ovulating so I can try to get pregnant because I want to be, they can do the same to not get pregnant if they don't want to be. That should pretty much eliminate the chance that you get pregnant. As far as why I believe that it is different in the case of rape, I would say that personally I would still not choose to have an abortion, but in a case where the woman did not choose to have sex and did not have the chance to prevent the pregnancy in advance, I could see the argument for her having the choice to end it. I could understand where 9 months of pregnancy with a child that is part you and part someone who caused you harm like that could cause unnecessary emotional turmoil for someone already dealing with a lot, and so I would respect their right to make a choice in that case. All of that being said, I am not the type to say that the government should make abortions illegal. I don't think it would stop people from doing it, it would just prevent them from getting access to them safely.
     
    #12 flymetothemoon, Sep 22, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  13. Sarcastic Luck

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    Pro tip: Not all women cycle regularly, thus making charting ovulation impossible.
     
  14. drwinchester

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    Is it just me or do I smell conspiracy? :wink:
     
  15. Waffles

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    In my personal position, I say that I am mostly against abortion. There are many families out there that would love to have a child but cannot due to medical conditions. The whole point of men and women having unprotected sex is to make a gosh damn baby. If they have unprotected sex and the women gets pregnant, she needs to take responsibilty and give birth to the child. My only exception to this is the following:
    If the woman, child, or both are going to die as a result of having the child. At this point, it is more important to preserve the guarenteed existing life... despite the fact that it may seem cruel and selfish.

    In a case of rape... it's somewhat complicated. In that case, I world prefer that the baby still be born and put into adoption, but it's not my choice to make. Long story short, people who use abortion as form of birth control to prevent an "oopsie baby" are disgusting excuses for human beings.

    If you wanna diddle each other with a high chance of no pregnancy, use protection. Legit, you can't spend a few dollars on a box of condoms but you can afford an abortion (yes I'm aware of free abortion clinics)? Real classy.
     
  16. Hexagon

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    Well duh. Sometimes, people act as if the only challenges of getting pregnant are raising the child. And just for the record, no, abortion shouldn't be restricted to cases of rape. Yes, we all agree that rape is terrible, but if we attribute value to the 'life' of a cluster of cells, then to be morally consistent, allowing a fetus to be aborted in cases of rape would be about as justified as killing the rapist's brother.

    Of course, its probably obvious that I support abortion. Just pointing out an inconsistency. A person's right to control their body takes precedent.

    And, @Waffles, it is completely and utterly unfair and unjustified to say that people who use abortion in cases not caused by rape are disgusting human beings. Firstly, contraception can fail. Secondly, mistakes can happen. And thirdly once the mistake happens, and you're faced with the choice of quitting your education, facing prejudice and discrimination for being a teenage mother and going through the struggles of pregnancy and pain of childbirth, what other reasonable choice would you have? I certainly agree contraception should be used, but saying so doesn't make it happen, and people face this situation all the time.
     
    #16 Hexagon, Sep 22, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  17. resu

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    If you are really pro-choice, then all options should be on the table, and if a mother decides to carry a child to full term knowing it can be adopted (similar to surrogacy), then no one else should interfere.
     
  18. Hexagon

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    Of course. Who exactly are you disagreeing with?
     
  19. Steve712

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    Unfortunately, things happen. Something could malfunction, she could be stressed and take her birth control at an irregular time, etc.; and yes, it's also true that some people make stupid decisions, unable to grasp the consequences until facing them directly. Yet I'm not sure why we should condemn all of those people to raise a child when they are unwilling or unable to. To do that would really be to condemn the child, because being raised under those conditions is rough more often than not.

    As far as I can tell, you've taken this position because you value human life absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that, but it seems you are only considering this from a quantitative perspective (if a foetus is killed, that's a form of human life gone), while ignoring quality of life. Is creating new life worth it if it will be miserable? Most women report getting abortions because having a child would dramatically change their life (usually because it would upset their education or employment) and because they cannot afford to (due to being unattached or unemployed, or due to the the threat of becoming unemployed if they have the child). There are also women, though a smaller number, who have abortions due to health problems either with them or the foetus, and many of these particular women planned to have a child. What would you say to any of them? Would you say, "I'm sorry, but you have a moral obligation to dramatically upset your life by going through the pregnancy and raising the child in poverty/through its illness"? If so, why? For the child's quality of life would almost certainty be as bad as the mother's.
     
  20. pokerface87

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    Then you are pro choice, not pro life. Pro life advocates outlawing abortion.