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I want to apologize

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Steele, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Steele

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    Since I made my last posts in the thread regarding gay men and feminism, I’ve been thinking a lot about feminism and gender equality. I won’t name names, but some of the comments made by other contributors to the thread really did make me stop and think about my views on feminism, my experiences in life that I mentioned in my posts, and the way I presented my cases.

    First and foremost, I want to say that it was never my intention to undermine or make light of the issues that women have to face in this day and age. Unfortunately, I think that’s what I did, whether I intended it or not. I want to make it clear that I understand and acknowledge that women do face very real, very serious issues in this day and age and that these issues have a profound impact on women’s everyday lives, and in no way did I mean to disregard, let alone perpetuate, the more than unfavorable environment women are forced to live in.

    Next, I believe that I was far too broad in my criticisms of feminism. Yes, the particular feminists I’ve encountered haven’t been what you’d call friendly, but it was wrong of me to accuse feminism as a whole, including people I haven’t even met yet, of being full of batshit insane, misandric psychopaths.

    Regarding what I said about my experiences, although my experiences as I described them were true, it was stupid, immature, and selfish of me to take these experiences and write about them as if they were on par with the issues women have to face. Looking at them now, I am beyond mortified at everything I typed out.

    Lastly, this is somewhat off-topic, but I feel that my posts steered the thread away from the main question/topic posted by the OP, and for that I apologize.

    I will say that I do believe that misandry does exist in society and that there are some feminists who are unreasonably hostile towards men, but again, even though I may have experienced more of this misandry or these feminists than the average male might experience in his life, I had no business making the absurd generalizations I made.

    If I offended any of you I want you to know how sorry I am, and if there was anything else I said that upset anyone that I did not discuss in this post, please let me know. I hope that in the future I will be able to discuss these issues in a calm, collected, objective, and non-offensive manner.

    (*hug*)
     
  2. GirlWhoWaited

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    Even though I was not part of the original discussion, I want you to know that I think it's awesome that you are humble enough to admit fault when you feel it. The ability to take other people's criticism constructively is a rare and very respectable trait. :thumbsup:
     
  3. AwesomGaytheist

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    I didn't read the thread, but if you think what you posted was wrong, then thanks for manning up to it.
     
  4. myheartincheck

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    Don't know which thread this was, and I'm not very easily offended, but hey if you want to apologize I can respect that. Apologizing isn't easy by any means when you really put yourself out there.

    Kudos, bro! :thumbsup:
     
  5. iHateThinking

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    I was following the thread but didn't post..

    It's understandable that you reacted the way you did, people's experiences shape their viewpoints and we all have our biases, generalizations, and not-so-nice thoughts and sometimes they come off in unpleasant ways. We can get lost in the heat of a discussion.

    But it takes someone with some sort of honor and humility to understand and feel when they are wrong and actually admit to it. Not everyone can do that, some people will still try to make it as if they're in the right. You took the, what I think, is the better route.

    All I can say is thank you.
     
  6. Jinkies

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    This was the entire argument I was trying to make back in that thread. So even if it's not from my posts directly, I'm really glad that I'm not alone on that, and I'm really glad that someone else gets it.

    Also, I wholly admire the fact that you've taken a shift from the "100% of the people I've met = 100% of the group they're in" argument. Too many people take that fallacy and create a very slippery slope for themselves. You see it all the time in politics. Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps are the 2 biggest poster children for it. I can guarantee you that alone will get you more respect than most people will get. If you can listen to someone's problems, someone's actual and real problems, at the very least, you'll be thanked.

    The only other thing I had against your argument in that thread was the first thing Owen mentioned: It was something coming from a patriarchal society. And while it's relevant and tends to tie in with feminism and the problems it faces, it's a mutually exclusive thing, and can be regarded as an entirely different point of view. It's oppression from a macro scale and feminism deals with things more on a micro scale. Although I will say that without a patriarchal society, especially with the "rules" it has and the double standards it gives, feminism wouldn't be a thing because the problems it tackles wouldn't exist to begin with.
     
  7. Steele

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    Thanks for accepting my apology you guys, I hope I've alleviated some of the anger and offense I may have generated and hopefully next time I won't make the same mistake. :slight_smile:
     
  8. Data

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    I browsed quickly and I see what you're saying Steele.

    Sometimes it's hard to convey proper thoughts through forum posts because the facial expressions, body language, accents, and intonation are all missing from the writing. At least, that's how I feel about debating over forum posts.

    That thread almost turned into another circumcision thread.:rolle:
     
  9. Aussie792

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    Oh, thank God it hasn't. That was possibly the most angry discussion I've ever seen on EC.

    It's very good of Steele to own up for something we were all guilty of. We all fired up, and tried to obliterate the opposite side of the argument. It takes courage to apologise, and I think it's wonderful of you, Steele.
     
  10. Jinkies

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    I do feel like I as well need to apologize for any offense I might have generated in that thread, despite the fact that it was exactly what I was trying to prevent. Perhaps it's because I did get defensive, perhaps it's because I was the one who posted the most often and had longer walls of text, but it seems that there's a little more than that. I've obviously taken a few things away from that thread, which is usually the goal I have when I start posting, so that's a plus. But I still feel like I've offended a great deal of people, and if I have, I apologize for it as well.
     
  11. ScatteredEarth

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    While I did not follow the thread, I will say that it was a good thing you did to accept that what you said might have came off as a bit wrong. Any man can hide behind their own beliefs, views, and lies, but it takes a great man to realize his mistakes and correct them.
     
  12. Silver Sparrow

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    Thank you so much for owning that you were wrong. True apologies always make me very happy!
     
  13. stuffiscool

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    "Misandry" (as well as "reverse racism", "heterophobia", etc) is either bitterness against the oppressor, which stems from misogyny, or in the case of men's issues, stems from the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with being a woman and so men shouldn't be "womanly", which is misogyny again. There is no societal "misandry".

    Anyway, good for you for admitting to mistakes. Learning about social issues is a lifelong process, and we're all gonna mess up sometimes... And oh no, not another circumsicion thread! :grin:
     
  14. ScatteredEarth

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    lol Another one? I thought after mine they all got sick of it :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  15. SohoDreamer

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    When a woman makes a blanket statement about all men being sex addicts who think with their penis, what would you call this?

    When a supervisor chooses a woman over a man following a job application purely because the former applicant is female, what would you call this?

    When an obviously irresponsible, uncaring mother is given custody of her child following a divorce purely due to the fact she's a woman and they're traditionally seen as better caretakers even though in this instance the man would be better equipped to take care of the child, what would you call this?

    When authorities and many citizens deny the existence of rape perpetrated against men, what would you call this?

    And so on. You can deny the existence of misandry if you want, but you're only deceiving yourself and I don't really understand the mental process behind people who do deny such a clearly real problem.
     
  16. pokerface87

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    They are a problem, but it has nothing to do with feminism and what it stands for. Those are examples of being a crappy person, stereotyping and a crappy system with flaws.

    ---------- Post added 26th Sep 2013 at 04:16 PM ----------

    To Steele

    Thank you for posting. I can understand why you had those feelings. Feminism is commonly mistaken for what it is really about, perhaps by media and/or bad experiences.
     
  17. sam the man

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    I agree, those have to be examples of misandry in society. Saying there's no societal misandry is almost untenable imo.

    You refer to bitterness against the oppressor, well I think that can apply to misogyny as well, there are some men who might view women as oppressive in some regards. I think both are the same in having misconceptions about the opposite sex, having assumptions about the traits present in the opposite sex, and having the feeling that those traits are somehow threatening (this is perhaps where the oppression comes from in the minds of many), so I think it can be extensively argued that misogyny and misandry are based on largely the same foundations. It is simply an irrational fear or hatred of the other sex- it doesn't always need an oppressor.

    In any case, there are many cases (like the ones above) where irrational preconceptions of men are asserted and sometimes where men are unfairly discriminated based on very shaky, or no, principles (same goes with misogyny of course, that is as much of a problem as this, but to say there's no misandry seems a huge stretch). I think that qualifies as irrational fear of men, and so misandry.
     
  18. SohoDreamer

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    I made no mention of feminism in my post so I don't see why you brought it up.

    Completely in agreement with this. Well put.
     
  19. Aussie792

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    That's still sexism against women. That's part of the whole "women belong at home raising kids" attitude. But this thread wasn't created so we can all flare up again. Misandry might exist in a tiny segment of the population, but misogyny is far too widespread and culturally condoned to even compare the two.
     
  20. sam the man

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    I wasn't saying misandry is bigger in scale than misogyny, I just felt it was being dismissed as an issue. Saying there's no misandry is a little far-fetched, because it is there. That's all I was contending.

    Anyway, back to the thread, since the debate's been had and like you say the thread isn't here so we can all argue over an unrelated topic.