Lesbian characters vs. gay characters on tv

Nah, I think you're right about all of this. I want to see much more gay characters. there's this one strictly gay show I wanted to watch, but it's pretty much a porno :/ I want a show that's strictly gay AND is about a couple who are gay. That would be nice to watch.

 

You're definitely not off base. The issue is that just because many people are slowly beginning to see that LGBTQ individuals are still human and should be treated as such, we still aren't making any progress escaping our various stigmas. This is not at all to insinuate that lesbians don't get any flack for who they are, only that heterosexual men tend to be more dramatic than heterosexual women. Directors know they will step on less toes if they include lesbian romance or sexual activity rather then male to male.

 

Are you kidding me?! You obviously don't watch enough TV shows to see that there are WAY more gay men than lesbian characters. Also, gay men on shows STAY gay and are usually taken more seriously and are usually main characters who get sustained story lines. Lesbians are usually portrayed as curious straight girls, bi girls (who eventually end up with men), or something of that sort. They are usually either a straight regular character who turned gay for a few episodes or just some guest actress they bring in to play a lesbian character for a few episodes. With several exceptions, lesbians are not usually a main or lasting couple in shows. You're also forgetting all the gay men who have appeared on TV shows that may have ended recently or in the recent past. There are also shows on the air now that have gay male characters that you didn't mention, probably because you don't watch them...

Shows with gay men (either currently on air or that have ended):
- Modern Family
- The New Normal
- Gossip Girl
- 90210
- Six Feet Under
- Desperate Housewives (handfuls of gay male characters)
- Dexter
- Greek
- The Following
- Scandal
- Smash
- Brothers & Sisters
- Grey's Anatomy (though no main characters are gay males, the shows always feature gay male couples and gay men)
- Lost
- Skins (UK version, though not American, still counts since enough Americans watch it)
- Downton Abbey (Again, UK show but very popular in the US)
etc...

I have always had a problem with there not being enough genuine lesbian characters on TV...

 

Agreed.

I would disagree with the OP's statement that lesbians are more accepted than gay men, however. (Not having watched any of the shows myself, I can only repeat what I've heard other queer women say about them.) This is perhaps most blatantly illustrated by the treatment of Irene Adler in BBC's Sherlock, which, while not an American show, is still a part of the same general cultural tradition. The character is officially stated to be a lesbian, yet over the course of her arc falls in love with Sherlock.

For a little bit of background consider the "girl on girl is hot" trope. Straight men (and bi men, too, but they're usually not the ones making these shows) include lesbians characters for the sake of male viewers. That's why it's so rare to find butch lesbians in these shows (who are taken seriously as characters, at least) -- they wouldn't be attractive to men. It's similar to the logic of having otherwise capable women run around in bikini armor in video games.

Going back to Sherlock and Irene Adler, having her be a lesbian in the first place makes her desirable for male audiences. Yet making her be a "real" lesbian who would never fall in love with a man would make her unattainable, something which doesn't mesh well with their sexual desires. That's why she falls in love with the male hero: so that the male audience can, as the saying goes, have their cake and eat it, too. Another variant of this is to have the female character be bisexual. She'll have flings with other women, but all of her deep, plot-driving relationships will be with men. (It's perfectly alright to be bisexual and have a preference for one gender or another in real life! This is only a problem in this context because the goal isn't to accurately portray the experiences of bisexuals, but rather to titillate male viewers.)

That's not to say all lesbian characters fall victim to this. An example from anime would be Juri from Revolutionary Girl Utena, and then of course there's shows like The L Word in the US. But if you're looking at a show that otherwise couldn't give a rat's ass about LBGTQ people, and all of the lesbians are conventionally attractive and may even have a male "exception," then this is probably what you're really seeing.

 

Isn't there a Tvtrope page listing lgbt couples?

but yeah, it's the lesbians catering to straight men mentality thing. I stop watching most TV and movies because of stereotypes and shit

also, the gay guy on Lost was only on for a few episodes

 

My problem is that the argument you are making equates willingness to depict lesbian sexuality with actual acceptance of lesbians and representation of the experiences of real queer people. I do not think lesbians are more accepted in society than gay men. I don't think that's a comparison that can be made because both are oppressed differently.

Should there be more sex between men on TV relative to sex between people of other genders? Yes, of course. But the mishandling of the romantic and sexual relationships between women is just as common and damaging. Not all representation is good representation.

 

Personally, I would love to see a real life like strong Butch lesbain character on tv. They sort of messed around with it on The L Word. The closest I have come is Mel, on Queer As Folk.

 

As a lesbian. I have to agree. we have WAYYYY more representation than the gay males do. When lesbian characters are show, we have relationships, we have sex. however we are all FEMME.
Even shows that are queer, give gay men the..short stick. I watch Lost Girl which showcases. straight and lesbian sex like no other show on TV, however when they do show gay male characters...and they do...its just they are in a relationship. Nothing more. They are pretty much asexual.
I've seen it alot. There is so little butch lesbian and gay male representation on TV. And even the lesbian relationships are suspect, and at least one of the women wtend to be bi, or questioning. (Mistresses, OITNB, Grey's, Lost Girl etc) Fosters is one show where the women are both lesbians, and PLL also. ABC Family tends to give lesbians a good name.

 

Nolan on Revenge they made him straight again It seems.

The L.A. Complex just started getting into a gay male character but it got cancelled right after.

It does seem like most get cancelled or if brought into the show don't last long. But some of the shows just are not good. The new normal I couldn't get into.

Brother and Sisters was an awesome show I got into it a couple seasons in but bought all the box sets so I could get caught up.

 

The thing is, when straight men say they're okay with lesbians, I doubt they mean they're okay with lesbians marrying each other or having the rights of straight people. They're okay with lesbians having sex with each other because they think it's hot. These things are not the same thing.

Also, I contest the statement that there are more lesbian characters than gay male characters on TV. While it sounds plausible, the numbers don't hold up: GLAAD's media report for 2012-2013 found 65% of LBG characters were male (61% gay vs 4% bi). A BBC report found the same result.

But as I said before, regardless of the actual numbers, not all representation is good representation. Again, I'm more familiar with anime, so I'll pull an analogous example from there. Ikki Tousen has an almost entirely female cast that spends most of the series fighting and being badass. But no one in their right mind would call it feminist because it's also filled to the brim with fanservice and unrealistic depictions of women. In other words, badass female characters do not a feminist show make.

Likewise, lesbians having sex is not enough for a show to be lesbian friendly. The first I heard of Riddick was from this review, which states:

So Dahl's role in the narrative is to reinforce the notion that all lesbians aren't really lesbians and just need to find the right man.

Yes, the desexualization of gay men in media is a problem. (I haven't read the whole thing, but this paper seems to give some good information on that subject, if you want further reading.) So is the hypersexualiation, desexualization (which happens to lesbians, too! Hence the "lesbian bed death" trope), and trivialization of lesbians in media. To claim that lesbians are more accepted than gay men in the ways that truly matter -- the ways that guarantee them rights as humans beings equal to those of straight people -- goes against the evidence.

 

Agree. In all those American movies/series breasts and naked females are no problem, but you'll never see penis : (

However I see more gay people on tv, than lesbians, and both are not realistically acted or just stereotypical.

 

I think there's good and bad to both sides. Like, I think that there might be more gay men on TV, but lesbian characters are less stereotypical?

I just say this because the only thing I can think of, from the major networks, like ABC/NBC are the lesbian mothers on Bold and The Beautiful and then Grey's Anatomy. Modern Family doesn't count because it's a comedy show.

These are things that frustrate me because I'm of the "let's look at the positives here" club. There was a point where it was nearly impossible to have a gay character on a tv show. We have good characters now! It isn't perfect, but it's a really good point to be at!

 

I know it's far from ideal but there are countries with no LGBT characters on TV at all or all they show is a feminine gay whom they make fun of so...:dry:

 

No, there are not more lesbians than gay men on TV. According to GLAAD (in the study I linked in my last reply), 61% (30 people) of LBG people were gay men, and 20% (10) were lesbians. Gay men are not lacking on TV. The way in which they are represented is problematic, but so is the portrayal of lesbians and bisexuals (and trans* people, for that matter, though they hardly get any representation at all).

 

Where are all these gay male characters on TV?
Honestly I hear about them, they are mentioned but I never SEE them. Maybe its because on Lesbian shows, the lesbians are major characters, but gay men arent. They are wside characters thrown in for 5 minutes every episode?
I NEVER see gay men on tv for more than a few minutes. However lesbians/bisexual women are there...with major storylines.
Grey's
Lost Girl
Fosters
PLL
OITNB
Glee
Chicago Fire
Two Half Men
Under the Dome
Hell on Wheels
Defiance
Warehouse 13 (H.G. is bi)

Thats all I have off the top of my head...and I'm sure others could add. These women have MAJOR storylines on these shows.
Gay men don't have the representation we do. its sad but true.
Yes, Scandal has a gay man, but do we ever see his life? That new cop show has a gay chief...will we see his life? Honestly, the gay men are desexualized and rarely shown in loving situations...of all the shows I've mentioned above, Warehouse 13, is the only show with a bisexual woman who isnt shown in bed/kissing/loving with a woman.

 

Gay men on TV seem to always be the main characters "gay best friend" -_- It gets dull, and there used as accessories, and add on the the main character. They don't get an identity outside of a stereotype : /