Ok, I really have to know...

[pirateninja]

To all the bi and gay girls here... slightly stupid question, but I'm really, really paranoid aboot this.

I'm asking this because I am pretty butch, in respect that I wear men's clothing, men's deoderant, men's jewellery, I pretty much freak out if my hair grows too long... but enough of that.

Anyway, what I want to know, is will lesbians or bi girls date a girl who is... very masculine? Because in the local gay scene I see all these "lipstick lesbians" being picked up wherever I go, and I sort of feel that I am left on the pile so to speak. I am very masculine and I'm not going to try and be the "hot lipstick lesbian" just to get a date, but it does make me wonder if that's really what girls go for?

Plus, some of the feminine lesbians I have met do veiw me with contempt, claiming that I "am conforming to the stereotype of dykes, and not spreading the message that lesbians can be feminine too." Which annoys me, because I try to wear and act as how I feel all the time anyway.

Is this a rant now?

Anyway, any advice or further discussion on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Cheese Love]

I'm not attracted to lipstick lesbians at allll. To turn my head, usually a girl has to be at least somewhat androgynous or unique. Generally speaking, I find more masculine-ish females attractive.

And trust me, there are tooons of lesbians/bi girls who love a butch girl. I'm not sure what's up in England, but where I live most lesbians have short hair and tank tops all the time. Generally sepeaking :]

[InaRut]

If it makes you feel any better Pirateninja. If I was a lesbian I would totally date you . But yah I think everyone has thier preferences. Like in the gay community. I would never go for an overly femme guy. But there are guys out there that sorta like that kinda thing.

*shrugs*

[heatqueen]

I don't go for 'lipstick' lesbians as such, I tend to prefer tomboys with a bit of a femme side. It's up to personal preference though. Whoever you start dating will like you for *you* and won't judge you based on things like how masculine you are.

[Vampyrecat]

Holly. You're beautiful okay?

Personally, I wouldn't go for someone who doesn't look after herself or who lacks self esteem.

I'd much rather go out with someone like you then a lipstick girl. Being a bit of a lipstick girl myself, I know how insecure and psycho we can be, but what I LOVE about girls and what turns me on the most is a girl who loves HERSELF and is happy with how she looks.

And I'm not just saying that cos we're married. I'm saying it because you are a beautiful, strong, young woman and you know who you like and what you like and I find that about the sexiest thing in a girl.
So you don't wear dresses. Big fricking deal. I don't really wear dresses much either. So you wear men's deoderant. I'm not overly keen on the smell, but hey, I would look past that if I knew you in real life.

Holly, If you're going to date a girl, make sure she sees you for you, not as a "Butch" lesbian. If you're comfortable with you, then that's all they can ask for and all they have a right to ask for. They should be just taking you as you, because you shouldn't have to change for anyone..


/rant

Sorry about that, it became a bit of a rant.

But yeah.

I would definitely date you.

[Helen]

I would date you as well, Holly. Don't let yourself fall into a stereotype, you don't have to completely define yourself into one particular category. I don't like my hair too long either (although that might have something to do with how ridiculously thick it is), and I drive my mum crazy by always making a beeline for the male sections in clothes shops.

So, in answer to your question, yes I would date a masculine girl. In fact, I prefer masculine girls.

[Trumpetplyer23]

I like people for who they are, not the way they dress. In fact, I'm not into prissy, 'omg I just broke a nail' type girls. They annoy the f**k out of me. That's just the way it is for me. Pretty much all of the girls I know are pretty much prissy and annoying, and I have no ambition to date someone like that. They strike me as shallow.

You can only be yourself, not what someone else wants you to be. And if you want to wear men's clothing, then go ahead! If they care that much about the clothing you wear, it tells me that they need to get out more.

I get crap like this all the time "Sarah, why do you shop in the men's section"-because the clothes fit me better. "Why?"-because I'm very muscular and could snap you in two, now shut up. "It bugs me"-too bad, this is who I am and if you don't like it, then go lick a cactus. That was an actual conversation I had with my friend.

Don't let them get you down! You're really cool and funny, and most girls wanting to date someone look at their personality, not the clothing section they shop in.

Hey, if I knew you in real life, I'd totally date you. I like girls who can make me laugh, regardless of the kind of clothes they wear.

I'm more crude than most of the people on the site, because when someone critques how I dress, I usually tell them where to shove it, to put things nicely.

[Beebo]

Originally Posted by pirateninja

To all the bi and gay girls here... slightly stupid question, but I'm really, really paranoid aboot this.

I'm asking this because I am pretty butch, in respect that I wear men's clothing, men's deoderant, men's jewellery, I pretty much freak out if my hair grows too long... but enough of that.

Anyway, what I want to know, is will lesbians or bi girls date a girl who is... very masculine? Because in the local gay scene I see all these "lipstick lesbians" being picked up wherever I go, and I sort of feel that I am left on the pile so to speak. I am very masculine and I'm not going to try and be the "hot lipstick lesbian" just to get a date, but it does make me wonder if that's really what girls go for?

Plus, some of the feminine lesbians I have met do veiw me with contempt, claiming that I "am conforming to the stereotype of dykes, and not spreading the message that lesbians can be feminine too." Which annoys me, because I try to wear and act as how I feel all the time anyway.

Is this a rant now?

Anyway, any advice or further discussion on this would be greatly appreciated.

Honestly... I dont know why I am like this.... but like... for some reason... this kinda really hit home for me and I just started crying... but I have no idea why....

I think... its because... Holly, I kinda look at you as an Idol here at EC... you are truly like one of the coolest girls in the world to me... and like... I hardly know you... but seeing that you have struggles too, and like that you get anxious and worried and scared... its like.... I dont know... It breaks my heart to think that you could even imagine a world where someone wouldnt be crawling over someone else to get their hands on you. Like... just know... that you are probably one of the most special people I know... even though i dont know you too well... you are like... my hero.

Just keep doing what you are doing.



I guess this has just been a tough couple months for me*sigh*.

but you are amazing Holly... It kills me to think that some girls thinks you are acting a certain way just for attention.


I think Phil just saved my life tho. !!!!!!!

[Jeimuzu]

Those girls don't understand freedom in society. They're suggesting that people should not conform for the sake of it - that freedom is the opposite of conformity.

In reality, freedom is the opposite of letting conformity define you. There's a definite difference. For example, I knew a guy who said to truly be free, you have to listen to music that nobody else likes, pick a religion everyone hates, and do things because society doesn't want you to, because that way you're not defined by society's ideals. However, if you think about it, that's just inverse-conformity. You'd still be conforming to a set of ideals defined by society.

Basically, those girls sound like inverse-conformists. The problem with inverse conformity is that it sounds cool as a concept, so people jump on the bandwagon, and if becomes conformity.

The way to be free is to completely disregard society's ideas of what's good and what's bad for you to wear. If you want to be feminine, be feminine. If you want to be butch, be butch. Be what you want to be. And even if the stereotype changes, don't follow it unless you truly want to.

[Psychedelic Bookmarks]

Holly, I think every single girl here would date you, practically. Those stupid girls don't know what they're talking about. I'm sure there are plenty of girls who like masculine girls, including me. I like both. You just have to keep looking and somebody who deserves you will come along. Please don't feel like you need to be lipsticky to be attractive, because that's totally not the case.

You hawt, girl!

Well.. for me personally I far prefer butch but do find some "lip-stick" lesbians very attractive. So yer.. I would date you lol. And I don't know about anyone else but I find confidence, a good personality and people who aren't scared to be themselves most attractive without caring if they are butch/femme whatever lol.

Whatever you do don't let people pressure you into being someone your not:
1 - they can't really be true friends/people worth hanging out with if they don't accept you for who you are.
2 - you will feel rediculous if you try being something your not, even if it makes others happy, its not worth it.
3 - personally anyway, I have so much respect for people who are just themselves without caring what people think.. it's amazing and I wish I could be the same.
4 - people will like you for who you are anyway!!!!!!!

Just be yourself!!!!

[beckyg]

You guys make me so proud! What wonderful words of advice you have given Holly! I am so impressed! I am sitting here crying!

[sexyalex]

WOW!

DE'JA VU MUCH!

it's like a complete reverse...i wear womens clothes (sometimes >.<) female deoderant, female fragrance, use female shampoo and conditioners and I even buy female lingerie and wear them sometimes...just in the house FYI

so i think it's the same thing...just from a guy's prospective; because people...when people think of homosexuals they think of flamboyant chris crocker acting guys and they sterotype metrosexual men as homosexuals when i am 100% sure there are masculine, macho men out there who are homosexuals.

for now i am just trying hard to blend in and be a normal average male...cuz my own brother is calling me a fag life can't get any better.

[MeskElil]

Oh, Holly, trust me, butch girls are liked.
Everyone who posted here said that they liked masculine girls, and I'm no different! In fact, I'm one myself...
Prissy chicks bug me SO MUCH...my school is stuffed with them. That's why I'm sort of an outcast...because I'm SO boyish. I wear pants to school all the time, so I thought I would screw with everyone one day and wear a skirt. And voilá! Everyone screamed and was pretty much thrown off-balance because the tomboy/butch was wearing a skirt. I got...I think it ended up being 22 comments on it by the end of the day. Most of them were by people I didn't know.
And you know what?
I hated it. I'm never wearing a plaid Catholic schoolgirl skirt again. They ride, and they're too short, and I just wanted to stretch it down and sew it up into pants by the end of the day.
And the girl I have a crush on? A tomboy like myself.
So...
Don't worry about it! I really go for the masculine girls, just because they can stick up for themselves and don't worry about their hair so much.
You're beautiful! There's going to be one helluva girl out there for you, and for every one of us on here!
Femmes and Butches unite!

[Hoppip]

Dear pirateninja,

I know what it feels like when you think you're the 'odd one out.' Or the unattractive one, etc. etc. But there's gonna be some girl one day, and she's gonna walk up to you, and be like...

"H-hey... I-is... any-o-one... s-sitting here?"

And BAM.

You don't need to change anything about yourself, okay? I have a 'gay voice' that I totally hate (and my syntax reflects quite gayly, too) but I'm learning to realize that it's not a big deal. I always wanted to be more masculine.

In the words of Dr. Seuss, that I practically LIVE by:

“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”

By the way,

Everyone here on EC loves you the way you are.
And EC love,
THAT'S TRUE LOVE RIGHT DURR.

<3

[xxAngelOnFirexx]

i'm very butch, i just got my head basically shaved. i go for more of tomboys. lipstick lesbians are eyecandy but i'd rather datea tom-boy. my last girlfriend is confused with a boy 90% of the time.

[pirateninja]

Originally Posted by beckyg

I am sitting here crying!

Trust me Becky, you're not the only one.

[panda]

I have to 2nd and 3rd and 4th all of the above. You are fantastic and if I were a lesbian I would chase after you until you stopped .

[jazzrawr]

Holly, you are SO gorgeous!
i would definately date you if i lived in England ^.^
*hugs*
and my little blurb on femme and butch...

I personally don't have a preference. I fall for who someone is, and i find both butch and femme sexy. Theyre both really hot. ^.^
I am kind of floating in the middle of butch and femme i guess...im not either one.
and i like both ^.^

You definately dont need to conform to the lipstick lesbian thing, because youre beautiful the way you are!
i would definately definately definately date a masculine girl.
*glomps*
<3

[pirateninja]

Wow, I just want to thank everyone for responding. You've honestly made me feel 110% better. There is definitely a lot of love here at EC.