Gay Marriage - I dont understand

There are many different reasons for it. I think one of the main ones is all the legal benefits that come with it. As well as gay people wanting to show their commitment to one another like straight people are allowed to do. And it shows that we are all on the same level.

 

For me, it is more for the legal benefits that opposite-sex couples who get married receive, but also the commitment thing like Lance said is nice.

 

Because, no matter what other anti-discrimination laws etc are passed regarding gay people, as long as there is a difference in what gay people are 'allowed' to do by the state and what straight people are 'allowed' to do, then there is no true equality. Every gay rights campaign is not necessarily so much about a single issue as it is about reaching a time when gay people growing up don't even have to think or worry about being gay.

In truth, I am quite traditional at heart, and I would like to be able to have a wife and children someday. I would like to be able to have a family life with someone I love, just like the environment I grew up in. I think many gay people feel the same way. I'm not religious but I like the commitment made by marriage - saying "We won't cheat on each other, we will stay together even when times are really difficult". My parents have had very difficult times and stayed together and it's echoed in their having got married and made a commitment to each other that they believe in and want to keep (they were both married to other people before so it's not as if they haven't used divorce when it really was necessary). If I am ever lucky enough to have a relationship with a woman who I feel about as strongly as my parents feel about each other, I'd like marriage to be an option for me.

Of course it goes without saying that I also want a society where people are not judged for not getting married and where gay and straight people can choose to live together and not marry without being judged for it. My [fairly-good]father (our family's atheist description for godparent status) married my [fairly-good]godmother purely for the sake of protecting assets, wills, 'next of kin' etc but then went to a Civil Partnership of a gay friend of his and said that he wished Civil Partnerships were allowed for straight couples because he would have preferred a Civil Partnership with my [fairly-good]mother.

 

It's largely social. No matter how much the law seems to be equal, it's like forcing people of colour to go to separate restaurants (that are inevitably of lower quality), while the best is reserved for whites.

Actually, same-sex couples are sometimes kicked out of restaurants/refused services in some places, but the point is that "equal but separate" institutions are bullshit; equality requires it to be the same.

 

Another question: why the need for anti-lgbt crimes to be prosecuted under hate crimes laws?

 

There are literally 1000s of benefits, and protections that the government gives married couples. Taxes are one thing, but not my biggest area of concern. There are many protections, such as hospital visitation rights. To show a real example I will reference the movie "Bridegroom" now on netflix, or Shane's related video "It Could Happen To You" on youtube:
If Shane, and Tom were legally married, Shane would have been able to visit Tom in the hospital, and be by his side when he passed. As a legal spouse, Shane would have had the right to make all funeral arrangements, and therefore would have been there for it. Tom's parents would not have a say if they were married. It would be bad enough to loose your partner, but to be completely cut out of the funeral, and threatened if you tried to show for it? That would be devastating.

 

I think it all boils down to equality and having all the benefits and entitlement to that of a straight couple. We still live in a society today where people are afraid to come out and say "I'm gay" for a multitude of reasons and it's sad. There's still so much hate and segregation which implies that gay couples are of a lower class than that of straight people, which is totally wrong. However I don't feel that marriage is the way forward. It's possibly the biggest statement you can make to declare your love to someone, but it's not the answer to all problems. There's still going to be bigoted people out there and prejudice in the world. Marriage doesn't solve problems, it just makes people feel a little more equal and less inadequate within the society which they live.

Personally I love the idea of marriage. Especially for the declaration of love and commitment aspect of it and why shouldn't two people that truly love each other be able to tie the knot.

 

Most definitely agreed.

 

This should clear it up a bit.

[Youtube]pR9gyloyOjM[/Youtube]

 

I think it's mostly because of the notion that "separate but equal" as opponents to SSM say civil unions and domestic partnerships are, which is not only unconstitutional (Brown v. Topeka Board of Education overturning Plessey v. Ferguson), but they aren't even equal at all, knowing there are 1138+ rights that same sex couples are denied on a daily basis.

 

Well... I don't agree with either marriage or the state. But anyway, people don't like to be treated like dirt by their state or denied rights, and marriage is a sign of the desired equality. Also, some people actually want to marry, apparently .

 

I've had a gay email pen pal for about 5 or 6 years who lives in CA. He has been partnered for over 30 years and now that it's legal in CA they are going to get married this month--and for only one reason, tax benefits. He says all this talk about making medical decisions, life insurance beneficiaries, etc. is BS. They simply designated each other years ago. It's as simple as that. He also says after 30 years of being together nothing will change between them and it shouldn't. They are a wealthy couple so the tax benefits are significant.
That's why I prefer the flat tax as proposed by savvy folks like Steve Forbes.

 

For me it was vital. Should anything happen to me or my partner the rights involved are monumental. I have been through a friend losing their wife - she was cut out from her friends family and had no rights. She also lost half their savings and was forced to sell her house to pay her partners family (they claimed everything and cut her out) She couldn't attend the funeral and it destroyed her.

Another friend went through the same - loss of a partner - but the family was more understanding and involved him in everything (they could have shut him out if they wanted)

We would have the same issues today - but for the fact we are married. Do we need to be married to prove our love to each other? NO. Does it change our lives and provide peace of mind - hell yes

 

Legal benefits + societal acceptance.

 

Tullman, Yes there are legal papers that you can draft to get some of the benefits I mentioned, but you shouldn't have to file 50 or more different forms when one marriage certificate is enough for anyone else.
Additionally there have been cases where hospitals have ignored legal documents granting visitation. Yes that might be winnable in court, but if there is even a chance that your partner might not make it, you don't want to wait for the court.

---------- Post added 3rd Nov 2013 at 07:11 AM ----------

Hexagon, Yes in fact there are some of us that have driven two states away to get legally married, even though our home state doesn't recognize our marriage. Hoping they will someday though.

I already have one benefit of actually having a marriage cert. My employer no longer charges me taxes on my husbands health insurance.

 

There are 1,138 federal benefits of marriage that we're now finally getting. For me, it's mainly about legal protections, and for others it's for sentimental reasons, and for others, it's both.

We're not running off to Iowa to get married just yet, but that's something I'm looking forward to if we do. Yeah for the sentimental stuff, but there's other reasons.

In states where gay marriage is illegal, if your partner is in the hospital, they have every right to turn you away and not allow you to see them because you're "not family." Unless you have an advance directive, you have no right to make medical decisions for them if they're unable, and the list goes on and on.

 

The couple I wrote about in post #13 are very aware of legal matters both because of their wealth and knowledge of social implications. Within the last 2 years my pen pal's partner has gone through 2 bouts of cancer. He communicates with me in detail and never mentioned any problems. I know he has medical power of attorney in the event his partner is unable to make his own decisions.
Silent Creatures wrote in post #14 about problems encountered when a friend's wife died. To be blunt, it sounds like poor estate planning. Everyone with any property of even minimal value should have a will. They're not expensive and any lawyer worth the title can write a simple one. It just makes good sense.
The one exception I'm aware of is pension survivor's benefits of public employees in this state. I know of two hetero couples who have long time companions but are not married. In one case the woman was recently diagnosed with breast cancer and has decided to retire. She works for a public utility. The other case is a local cop who is about to retire. Both couples have decided to get married so the spouse will be eligible for survivors benefits. If they get married after retirement the spouse will not be eligible for survivor benefits.

 

Well if someone who is gay doesn't get it, what hope is there for convincing everyone else? Look, it's about hatred and discrimination being codified in law and recognized by our government. That's unacceptable even aside from the 1000+ rights that married couples are entitled to.

 

Because they're a hate crime in many cases. On a more general level because there have been cases where 'local law enforcement' has looked the other way or deliberately done a half-ass job when LGBT people have been the victims. Hate crime laws being applied can either increase the penalties or force the intervention of state or federal authorities, taking the case away from the local yokels or putting them in the spotlight so they are forced to do their job properly.

Todd