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Wind farms

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Hexagon, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. Hexagon

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    Here in the UK, and much of europe that I've visited, we have lots of wind farms. Probably in the rest of the world too. Anyway, here, you get so many idiots people complaining about how ugly they are etc. There is also a tendency for people to say they're fine, so long as they are far, far away.

    Just wondering what people thought about them. Me, I think they're good. And I'd be happy having wind farms nearby. I don't get what is so ugly about them, either.
     
  2. Ridiculous

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    I always thought they looked pretty cool.
     
  3. bingostring

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    I think they can be quite beautiful
    AND green energy
    and I don't see what the fuss is all about at all

    (someone will disagree!)
     
  4. Siarad

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    I'm sure someone will disagree but let me be the first not to do so! :icon_bigg
    I love wind farms - especially in Wales where I used to live. All spinning together, little white dots against the green hills, they always look like the perfect symbol for a sustainable future. (Sort of like idealists in the sixties used to imagine the future would look like!)
     
  5. bingostring

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    YAY !
    The score so far ...

    Believers = 4
    Unbelievers = 0
     
  6. justjade

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    Well, personally, I think the clouds of smoke from coal-burning power plants is pretty ugly. I'd prefer a wind farm. So much more aesthetically pleasing, and they give clean energy.
     
  7. Techno Kid

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    I think wind farms are a great way to produce energy and they are beautiful too! :grin:
     
  8. Aussie792

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    There are windfarms at Lake George, just outside of Canberra, and they're not really ugly at all. The coal mines in Queensland and New South Wales, however, are hideous, and ruin everything nearby.
     
  9. Siarad

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    Weirdly enough the points you make about the contrast between windfarms and coal mines in New South Wales are exactly the same points I would make about the contrast between windfarms and coal mines in the original British South Wales! :icon_wink
     
  10. greatwhale

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    Can I say that I want to love them?

    I am sick of 20th century technologies still lingering in this century, notably incandescent light bulbs and internal combustion engines. I even seriously contemplated starting a thermal solar business a few years ago, but life keeps getting in the way. No matter, I am simply stating that my low-energy consumption credentials are there, but the problem with wind turbines (I don't think they're ugly either) is that they can't seem to make them economical!

    Without massive government subsidies these things would not exist. The intermittent nature of wind itself means that you need backup generators online at any time, and if the wind blows too strongly, they have to be slowed down or they would break apart.

    The key problem is that there is at present no low-cost or practical way to store the energy when it isn't needed. The closest we've come is to hook them up to pumps to raise water to a higher level so that it can generate electricity with conventional hydro turbines...

    There are alternatives to wind turbines, tidal power is one, and so is wave power, but still years are needed to make these practical...
     
  11. Grimm

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    I love wind turbines. :icon_bigg
    I think they're really beautiful, and when I stand close to them or the parts they're made of, it makes me feel really small (I'm weird. I like feeling small.).
    Also, green energy is one of the most beautiful things ever. :icon_bigg
     
  12. Data

    Data Guest

    They're alright.

    Here in the southwest of the CONUS solar power is the biggest thing.

    If I had to rank the best power production it would look like this:

    1. Nuclear
    2. Solar
    3. Wind
    4. Water
    5. Coal or natural gas

    I really think nuclear or solar is the way to go. The best place for wind farms is in the middle of the ocean on floating barges. You can't see them and the wind in some of the cells above the water currents is pretty strong and consistent.
     
  13. timo

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    I don't like the way windmills look, but I do think they're a great way to generate electricity. If I'm right The Netherlands has the plan to make a huge wind farm on the North Sea, just far enough off the coast so they're hardly visible from the beaches. I'm in favour.

    Also a sidenote, I'm massively against nuclear power. It's horrible. We can't burden the generations to come with our nuclear waste.
     
  14. Skyline

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    Yeah, can't understand why some people would think they look ugly. I think they look awesome and futuristic, and they're a good icon for clean energy. I wish there were some wind farms where I live--I only get to see them when I go on road trips (which isn't often).
     
  15. Aussie792

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    I absolutely agree. A big problem with preventing nuclear energy is that, unlike coal or petroleum, the effects aren't as locally damaging for the first world's middle and upper classes, and sometimes the whole nuclear-powered country isn't damaged. The real damage occurs in places such as Liberia where nuclear waste ends up, and we in France, Australia, Japan or Germany can happily see our own cities and countryside clean, while the foreign poor deal with it. As a result, the "conscientious" people can be falsely satisfied with how much "better" it is.
     
  16. Data

    Data Guest

    I don't know about other countries, but here we bury any nuclear waste in lead pigs under hundreds of feet of soil in the Nevada or Utah desert. A fresh U235/P239 fuel rod has a useful life until it becomes contaminated with neutron poisons that absorb thermal neutrons and slow the reaction rate. Cleaning the fuel rods results in upwards of 90% fuel retention and allows for another cycle in the reactor. The fact that fuel rods are being rejected only after 1 use is the primary contributing component of nuclear waste.

    A nuclear plant that is safer then Fort Knox, clean as can be (no emissions), and only produces waste which is buried in the middle of nowhere. What's bad about that again?

    Also, Uranium that is enriched to reactor-grade or hybrid rods that are U/P can't be used in a nuclear bomb. They would require much further enriching. Nuclear reactors also cannot explode in a nuclear blast. They can melt through their reactor vessel or create a steam surge, but they can't become super-critical. The graphite-moderated reactor that was installed in Chernobyl is not used much these days. Deuterium Oxide or normal water is the moderator of choice.
     
    #16 Data, Nov 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2013
  17. Aussie792

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    Europe lacks such easy methods of disposal, with such little space, and practically no desert. Not happily disposed of. Australian Aboriginals are able to prevent nuclear waste in their lands sometimes. The poor in western puppet states in Africa have no such say. We don't need nuclear energy in Australia or in Europe, where wind, tidal, hydroelectric, and solar energy will suffice. Sweden is also using domestic waste as a source of energy, but I'm not sure how that works.

    I think the EU (probably with Norwegian and Swiss cooperation) will need a collective energy agency to manage the different, emission-free sources; some can probably produce a lot, and others might be lacking. Norway might not be happy at the prospect of a reduction in oil revenue, though, and I don't think the Swiss are keen on sharing their energy.
     
  18. Data

    Data Guest

    Well, I suppose you're right about Europe not having the space. I bet a spot in the Australian desert would do good as a disposal site, but if the land all belongs to a group that doesn't want the disposal site that won't work.

    To me, we just have so many mothballed nuclear weapons that we need to dismantle, and those Plutonium pits would be excellent to be diluted with less pure Plutonium or Uranium and loaded into fuel rods. As long as we have a big hole in the ground, the waste isn't a problem. Recycling 2-3X helps a lot in that regard.
     
  19. Aussie792

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    Yeah. Australia has a secondary problem with nuclear energy. We have the largest unexploited uranium deposits in the world. The problem has three dimensions that I can identify. The first is that the land for mining, for the most part, is both protected as a national park/heritage site, and also is land belonging to several indigenous groups, as well as disposal. The second is that we fear the use of uranium in weapons, and what that could mean for Australia's responsibility in the matter (we already have problems with the small amount we do export). The third is that, if other forms of energy aren't developed sufficiently before coal and petroleum and natural gas run out, we could be a military target for an energy deprived set of Asian nations, notably China and Indonesia, more so than we are now for our ample food production.
     
  20. Hexagon

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    In regards to nuclear power, I'm generally opposed to it, but I think, if possible, the nuclear material from weapons should be used up. I'm also concerned, because I doubt sustainable sources that currently exist will generate enough power for the world, and certainly not in the future, (as I assume power needs will increase).