... are gay ... or bi? People tend to be suspicious when a guy is well spoken, neat, well mannered, and cultured. It's sort of annoying. I mean, yeah, sometimes the sum of the parts triggers the gaydar, but I wouldn't say anything derisive about it. These are all good qualities. However, when they are ascribed to a guy who may not be heterosexual, they are thought to be negative qualities. What's that all about?
Well, it's true for me. :lol: It's because a large part of traditional masculinity involves being a deliberate philistine, at least in the English-speaking world, across all classes. It's part of a rather pathetic fear of the perceived femininity of being artistic, ethically and holistically educated (guns, cars, empire and football are big parts of upper and middle class education culture), or fashionable (such trivial things must be left to those vapid women). Homosexuality is seen as immediately effeminising characteristic (which is true in some aspects, as without the trappings of hetero-masculine expectations, we're more able to be free of gender roles to a much greater extent). It also helps in making us be taken less seriously (coupled with severe misogyny), as we're too feminine to deal with serious matters such as hunting for no reason and throwing an inflated pig skin around a large field.
Why is it negative to be a gentleman in America? Being polite should be a good thing... Strange. Getting good grades makes you more popular in competitive schools (especially in Asia), and being a douchebag shouldn't have the effect of getting people to like you, right? That's a violation of common sense. Ironically, being educated was the pinnacle of manliness in ancient Athens, and the women were the uncultured plebes who only cared about sex and stuff. (Sorry, female people, but everyone was sexist back then!) Those traits are actually pretty masculine or neutral in China.
Well let's use myself as an example. Whilst the majority of the male population at my school talks of the size of a woman's breasts and the like, when asked by a rather crude female member of the band "which one of those girls would you do?", I responded "neither, I respect women." She again asks, "Well, which one do you respect harder?" ('-.-) I believe this may stem from the rather sexually-active attitude our culture has towards men, which has quite honestly lowered the straight female population's expectation. For a man such as I to deny such an acceptable moment to be vulgar seems foreign to our culture, so either they hope a straight male beats out the stereotype, or go with what is more believable in their mind: gay. These people believe not that the qualities when projected onto a homosexual are negative, but their already homophobic viewpoint causes the whole person to become negative, including any traits that may in a hetero have been positive. I am almost certain that should the school faculty or community leaders find out I'm gay, all those good qualities they describe me: my quietness, gentleness, politeness -- all these and more will become demonified as weaknesses of what they see as a disorder.
The focus on good grades is not necessarily a good thing. For example, my parents' expectations about grades make me want to shoot myself.
Why is it negative to be a stellar student (called a "nerd" or "know it all") in elementary school? It intimidates people. If you are a simpleton, you like other simpletons because you can relate to them. But if a cultured gentleman comes along, he might not be able to make friends because they have such a limited connection, and the disadvantaged one might even feel put off at the disparity. I've been on both sides of that actually, as both the smarter and dumber guy. Being with somebody significantly more educated and refined than me at the same age is a humbling experience, and some people are too proud to make that sort of friendship work. Similarly, when I've felt leagues ahead of others, I felt the need to downplay it rather than show off because people resented me. Of course it didn't help that I have always been pretty incapable socially so couldn't even look cool if I was good at something XD.
I don't think it is. I've never heard someone say "No man, that guy is too nice" or "No I don't like him that much because he's so nice to everyone." I hear people complain about guys who are rude and crude. An educated and polite man will attract the ladies, even if they initially want the rebel dickhead. That's what I see everywhere I go.
I think you hit on something. I think it is especially pronounced in the English-speaking world and thus cultural. There's a lot of that swilling down the beers and chasing an inflated pigskin mentality, as you allude to. I think it is different in other cultures, possibly Asian, Latin American, and maybe even in more southerly parts of Europe. I'm not sure, but I suspect they are more tolerant of a well dressed and well spoken man and aren't so quick to jump to the assumption. I know that I continued to send holiday cards as my friends were getting married. Being single, I send them out on my own. When unmarried, my friends would respond. When married, their wives would respond, usually with the "form letter." I don't even recall the guys adding a word or two, or even a signature. I guess sending cards is "women's work." That's the way it looks in the States. ---------- Post added 9th Nov 2013 at 10:05 AM ---------- Data, what happens is that, as you say, they like the rebel dickhead first and then come around for the more upstanding guy on the rebound, after a divorce and children. Sometimes, they'll go for the rebel dickhead the second time around, too, operating in denial the whole while.
Well I know of an article that talks about a statistic that shows that homosexual couples are far more likely to be well educated than straight couples. You can check it out here: Gay Couples More Educated, Higher-Income Than Heterosexual Couples - US News and World Report
This is where the religious right start the "gays are all middle-class and urban" rubbish. I have to assume that the socio-economic stature of most gay parents is because of red tape. There are deliberate restrictions on same-sex adoption, so only those who pass the rather extensive requirements (including money, job stability, a decent home etc.) and also have the ability to navigate that paperwork and have the legal abilities associated with being middle-class and moneyed. It's not that same-sex couples are inherently richer, it's that the middle class are more likely to be registered and able to be put into statistics. Middle-class people generally are more educated and have the ability to leave a bad family in more cases, meaning coming out in the first place is easier, let alone the extensive bureaucratic procedure related to adoption.
I kinda fit your category. I come across well presented and polite. I'm soft spoken. So people assume I'm gay which is true but it is seen in a negative context. It is like OH YOUR GAY AND YOUR A WUSS/GIRLY BOI or something along those lines.
because being well spoken, neat, well mannered, and cultured isn't manly enough in this country's culture and current age? lol It's okay though, more well spoken, neat, well mannered, and cultured men for me Though I am really confused because, even in Asia, manner and neatness are still being taught, and culture is to some degree still taught in elementary, like, classical musicians or artists, at least people would know the names or recognize a painting of the few famous ones? IDK tbh T_T I'll keep checking this thread for why those are deemed as bad qualities
