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Why is fag derogatory to gay people in the US

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Beware Of You, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Beware Of You

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    In England it means a cigarette and in old English a fag was a stick for burning (hence cigarette) with faggot being the plural.

    How did this get turned into such a derogatory term ?
     
  2. AmityRanch

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    It isn't, people just overreact sometimes.
     
  3. Linthras

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    Because it has no application to human beings.
    Human beings aren't cigarettes or bundles of firewood.
    When applied to humans it's specifcally meant to be offensive.

    I could ask the same thing about dikes.
    Which is English for the Dutch word "dijken", which are walls to keep out floodwater.
    Yet in the U.S. and lesser degree U.K. it's also derogative slang for lesbians.
     
  4. English Frenchman

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    Well, there’s an episode of Louie where a gay comedian explains how fag went to being derogatory. ( I also consider it to be cigarette and not hurtful slang ).

    You’re right. Fag used to mean a bundle of sticks, that were used for kindling. In medieval times, whores, adulteresses and rapists were stoned to death or burnt at the stake.
    Not homosexuals, though.
    Homosexuals were thought to be so dirty and so repulsive, that they would kill them by burning them with the fags. Tie them up, leave them with the kindling, that might be used to burn a whore. Just lay down with the fags, because they didn’t deserve a burning like whores.
    So, over the years, fag went from burning a bundle of sticks for kindling to meaning the homosexuals who are used for kindling. So, that’s the origin of how fag came to mean homosexual. Over the years of course, it slowly became a nasty word for gay, loosing all connection with its original meaning.

    Now, I brought up Louie, because at the end of the explication comes the punchline:
    “So, that’s where the phrase flaming homosexual came from”.
     
  5. Ridiculous

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    There's etymology for it on Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

     
  6. Tayb24

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    I can't find a source right now, but I remember reading how it had came to be associated with gay people, especially in a derogatory manner. I will say though that since I'm having trouble finding a source, this may not be correct.

    Basically it has to do with faggot as the definition of a pile of sticks for burning. The reason that faggot became associated with gay people though is that when people in the old days found out that someone was gay, they would throw faggots (bundles of sticks) into the chimney's of the person's house so it would set the house on fire and burn the gay person alive.

    So yeah, kinda derogatory. But as I can not find the source I got this information from, I definitely can't say that I'm certain this is correct, but it seems very plausible.

    EDIT: It may have been on the show LOUIE that I hard this or something similar, I may not have read it.
     
    #6 Tayb24, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  7. Beware Of You

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    I knew gay people were historically burnt alive, but it seems to be a coincidence about the slag usage
     
  8. Sitri

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    I always imagined a guy with speech problems called somebody a maggot.
     
  9. Tightrope

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    The etymology is provided. It's one of those English words that didn't make it to the U.S. or Canada, just like we don't call our guy friends mate. Mate would imply somewhere we're coupled with, but we've seen it in enough movies and in reading that we know it's a friend.

    If someone rolled down their window, and yelled "fag," that would be derogatory. It is only a derisive word for homosexual male here. If people are just shooting the breeze, and say "Yeah, that sweater would look sort of faggy on a guy," that could be sort of neutral.
     
  10. gibson234

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    It's a hateful term. It's like the n word to black people.
     
  11. Argentwing

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    Lol, I guess so. But I find it less insulting to call a gay person a faggot than it is to use the word as a general offense. However offensive, it can by synonymous with gay, but to call anybody (even a straight person) that with the hope that it hurts, you imply there's something bad about it.

    IDK, maybe I'm weird, but I'd rather be called faggot as a GSM person than if I were perceived as straight.
     
  12. Aussir

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    Yeah, well... sorry but we still use the word on a daily basis because for us (where the original word "negro" comes from) it's a color... as it has always been from the beginning of times... that is, until the "muricans" came along and perverted the word.

    For me, "fag" is a cigarette or a stick to burn and "faggot" is the plural. Also, "faggot" is FOOD.

    I'm European, not American so I go by the meanings used here, not in the US.
     
    #12 Aussir, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  13. cm81990

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    I don't think it is derogatory at all. Most times it is joking around. Applies perfectly to the group of gay guys who continue to reinforce negative stereotypes of being a gay guy and I have no problem saying it.
     
  14. DesertTortoise

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    Words change. It's surely folk etymology, that faggot for homosexual came from burning sticks. As for it being offensive--depends on who's using it. I have queer friends who are anti-assimilationist and self-identify as faggots. But if a homonormative person called them that it would be deroggatory. I don't use the word for myself (prefer queer--or faerie (self-identify as a Radical Faerie), but if another queer calls me that, no offense taken. However, I would object to any homonormative person calling me that, even if they weren't in any way queerphobic.
    Those kind of terms get their meaning from their cultural context... where they are located in the culture when they're used.

    As for jokes. Meaning is not IN a word, and not in the intention of the user, but in what it does. When you create harm, it's no good to claim you didn't 'mean it.' Yes you did. By refusing to acknowlege the consequences of your actions/speech.

    As for queers who, how did you put it? reinformce stereotypes? You mean, don't act like you think they should? Don't appear to blend into the normative culture that condems and persecutes us? Like my wearing nail polish and glittery shirts? And when I'm with faeries--dressing in genderfucking drag? If that's what you mean, I would ask you why you want to pass as part of the culture of violence and hatred that rejects us?
    Our ancestors--our queer forefathers and mothers, were the shamans and medicine women and bards and bearers of the traditional lore. They were powerful, as outsiders, because they were outsiders. That's how they could be the visionaries--seeing what was invisible to their normative brothers and sisters.
    Why not cultivate our outsider status--defy the Empire of Money and Death and sick religions who will only tolerate us if we disappear? Pretend that it's only about who we have sex with--in private? Calling those who, as you say, reinforce the stereotypes, faggots, is self-hatred. It's an assimilation of homophobic loathing that we would be better to shuck off.
    Hugs!
     
    #14 DesertTortoise, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  15. Cesar

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    Because we have many ignorant people in this country :slight_smile:
     
  16. Aussie792

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    It's derogatory to me because I like being human.

    The words in themselves aren't offensive. What is offensive is that they're used to deliberately strip us of our humanity. Being constantly dehumanised so that, rather than being a person, you're "just a fag", even to yourself, is what's awful. It's the deliberate soiling of a person's identity, something they can't escape, and when an integral part of you is something you feel ashamed of, then you've reached a low of internalised hate and shame. Too often it ends in suicide.

    And straight people wonder why gay people don't like being called "fags", "poofs", etc.
     
  17. All41

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    Homophobes blast the word constantly and the crazy Westboro Baptist Church uses it on their signs.