Happy International Mens' Day!

Genderqueer here so it doesn't apply to me

 

There are men's rights issues that must be addressed, but women and people of other genders have it much worse so the rights really can't be put on equal footing in my opinion. Besides Feminism seeks equality between all genders.

Sorry this thread did not go the way you were thinking so far.

 

You have got to be kidding me. How you could possibly read a denigrating attitude into his response without making an assumption of bad faith about it? Genderqueer (which is to say, non-binary) people get like 0.01% recognition in the greater society. While zer response may not be topical for your thread, ze's just trying to say "I'm here."

That response, unless you're constantly on the defensive, cannot be legitimately extrapolated into a claim that you personally don't care about the rights of anybody else, including women or genderqueer people.

International Men's Day, is going to be a political football, because generally speaking, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have an International Dominant Group day. While it's always going to be correct and accurate to say that men face issues that need to be addressed, when discussions of gender come up, power will necessarily become a part of that conversation. And as a result, the asymmetry of power will become a part of that conversation.

And that's not a "derail" into who has it worse, that's a basic recognition of asymmetry necessary to address and resolve problems.

I encourage you to look into modern (third-wave intersectional) feminism; what you'll discover is that feminists have actually been on men's side for various issues. Gay and bisexual men have been supported in their sexual rights by women feminists for a long time, and women feminists for a long time have questioned and campaigned against norms that pressure men of any sexual orientation into hypermasculinities that result in risky or problematic behaviors like fighting, drug use, and rape culture.

 

Happy International Men's Day!
Ahahahaha... women and men both have a lot of double standards going against them.
Yeah, people should look at both men's issues and women's issues. Ignoring the side you perceive to be "dominant" isn't supporting equality at all!

 

Feminism has a good place, and it should exist, but I don't think that most people understand what most feminists are like. Both in person and on the internet I have seen statements from feminists about how men should be seen as lower that women, that trans people like me don't exist and only switching genders to be the more dominant gender and gain privilege, and things along those lines. I have even seen it go so far as someone posted on a social networking site that they will only breast feed their female children, and will not cuddle or care for their male children, and if they have a baby boy they will get him circumcised simply to reduce his sexual pleasure when he grows up. Also, people should know that due to non discrimination laws, and the percentages of different gender and races required of businesses has caused the most job and college discriminated person in America (in not overly racist and sexist communities. I'm not trying to invalidate the hardships people are put through) is a single white male. By the way, this is coming from a Latino who is usually seen as female.

Continuing on, I don't really like the idea of IMD. I do believe it will cause a lot of problems. Also, I feel like specifically pointing out and recognizing the differences between men and women will only heighten sexism going both ways. I also feel like there should not be an international women's day. Yes, both genders have problems that need to be recognized, but I feel like the way to do this is in our everyday lives, and to not have a day that's purpose is for that.

 

Just out of curiosity, can I ask what kind of oppression men feel on a daily basis? I'm being snarky or sarcastic when I say this- I really do want to know.

 

They suffer a lot of oppression. From each other. There's bullying from at least ages 10 to 18, which primarily amounts to social pressure to conform to hypermasculine standards. For those of us who could never win at that game--either because we didn't have the personality or were not sufficiently able-bodied or fit enough--it's pretty damaging. Even for guys who can play the game, it just gets tiring, having to be competitive and constantly jockey for position.

Or not have meaningful conversations about our emotional health for fear of being perceived as weak.

These are all oppressive and dysfunctional realities that men face. The problem is that often, they fail to recognize their own contribution to the cycle.

None of this is to say what men suffer from is on the scale of what women suffer from, but it does come from patriarchy and needs to be addressed.*

*: If you can't understand why patriarchy hurts men, then you just need to Google it.

 

One example:
You can be proud that you are a woman. That's feminism.
You can't be proud that you're a man. That's sexism.

---------- Post added 19th Nov 2013 at 09:27 PM ----------

Also, a lot of places I tried to volunteer at assume that all boys are uncaring, violent, and immature, and make it a lot harder for me to volunteer than my female friends.

 

I see. I definitely agree that those are important issues and need to be addressed.

However, on the idea of IMD- I think it could be a good thing to have, but it might be too early in the fight for gender equality to have it? Like for comparison, let's say a there was a White History Month- it could be a good idea one day in the distant future, but I as a caucasian person have never been heavily oppressed due to my skin color and a majority of mainstream western history is white history, so having it is belittling to minority groups. I know that race and gender issues aren't exactly the same, but the point I'm trying to make is that in the present, men still do have more of a voice than women do.

(Sorry if anything in that didn't really make sense, it's 11:30 PM here and I've been doing homework for the past few hours.)

EDIT: Cynder, it's hard for me to consider your first example to be total oppression. Maybe since it's something every majority group deals with, I dunno. As someone like many others on here who's on both sides of privilege (white non-heterosexual cisgender female), I've been exposed to that idea a lot; the feeling I get is that if you say you're proud to be part of a privileged group, it feels a bit like spitting in the face of people who had to work so hard as a group for that same pride that you're so easily saying. That's bad wording on my part, but hopefully I got the idea across.

 

I think instead of days for specific groups, we should celebrate but one day: PEOPLE'S DAY!
...Of course, it would be every day

I've always felt that even noting the struggles of different groups of people is accentuating people's differences. It might be because I'm part of one of the least opressed groups (white male), but I think unless spontaneous, radical change occurs, we'll just have to wait out struggles and accept that people are people, be them straight or gay or bi or trans or male or femae or cis or ANYTHING! The very act of noting people's differences spreads the divide between them. Go people's day!

 

While women are more commonly raped, denied "serious" jobs based on sex, are subjected to body and sex policing, and are also abused at a much higher rate. Insurance is more expensive, jobs pay less, expectations of raising your family and being a slacker or being interested in your career and being accused of neglect (with no middle ground), either a slut or a prude, a bitch (if she's independent) or a useless doormat (if she's what's expected of her), will be laughed at for daring think she can speak to men on an equal level, and will then have her own issues explained to her by white, heterosexual men, and won't have control over her body in many places because white, straight men are apparently the guardians of foetuses (until birth)

What horrors we men go through compared to women.

---------- Post added 20th Nov 2013 at 04:37 PM ----------

Oh, might I add; every day is men's day. Or more specifically, every day is straight, white, middle-class men's day. We need to focus on issues that actually matter; men's day tends to satisfy the anti-feminist (aka misogynist) movements by pretending it's an equal level of discrimination worth talking about.

Men are affected by gender issues; men are punished for femininity and are expected to be masculine. But women are expected to be feminine, and are punished for being feminine or not being feminine.

 

I love this day. I found out about it's existence last year, and annotated it in my calendar so that I wouldnt forget about it. Today I praised all my male friends, or at least guys I am close to, even in the internet, and reminded them that they shoulld be proud of their gender too. We invented -almost, just for the sake of being politically correct - everything in the world, and without us mankind would still be in the stone age. Not to mention thousands of men sacrifice their income and even their lives for the sake of their children, and should be valued as important members of the household, since many studies show that not having a father or masculine figure around creates many problems for children later in life.

 

You do realize that the only reason men created and discovered so many things was because we oppressed women so much that we made them stay at home and have kids, right? We didn't do the world a favor...we made sure we created a system that benefits us more than any other gender in the world.

Yes, men have issues that greatly affect our lives, but to try and portray us as this poor oppressed group that people must be more aware of is a bit ridiculous.

Overall, guys will benefit way more from their gender than the things that we lose. Anything that you can complain has a benefit to it. It doesn't quite work like that for other genders.

 

Ack! I missed it! Noooo!

 

Eugh. Just no.

Women have invented almost as much, but it's either ignored or the credit taken by men.

All while wearing corsets and bearing our children.

Men don't sacrifice their incomes for the sake of the family in traditional households; women are unpaid domestic servants.

Without women, "mankind" would be nowhere, either. It takes two to tango, and the contributions women have made to science, literature, language, law, and every aspect of society is undeniable.

Look up things women have invented, books they've written. Catherine the Great was Russia's least violent Empress. Ada Lovelace set the groundwork for the invention of computers. Stoves, dishwashers, and other basic household things were invented by women (try living without food). Women discovered what the sun was made of, women discovered the nature of radium and nuclear material.

Nobody wants to pretend that women are superior, but your sexist attitude is bullshit. Invented anything lately?

 

Darn, I missed it. I would've done someone something manly.

 

So basically, summed up:

If you're a woman, you should be proud of who you are, rise up against the oppression and tear the patriarchy down.

If you're a man, shame on you for controlling everything and if you feel that you're proud of being who you are you deserve a swift kick in the balls.

I can't fucking win.

 

No. It's just that men need to take care that we recognise our privilege and don't abuse it. Trans men are a special case, I think. Cis privilege, male or female, outweighs the status society gives to trans men as men.