Melting Pot Myth: Is assimlation really good for Queers?

I do not agree,

my wanting to belong in a relationship and have the benefits that come with the contract of marriage and also be able to have the same title that everyone else has and be seen as an equal as all others I see as elevating my self and my relationship.


also just taking our own relationships into equality is good - it puts our struggle in the same vein as all others - just like suffrage , or more recently the civil rights movement in neither case did they ask to be "special" and outside but they just wanted to be equal - in the same way we need to be equal

the major thing about many people objecting to feminism is people keep saying we want special rights when we just want equality

and this is the problem behind what you are asking - you want to be special and NOT equal - this would lead to MORE hatred and not less

(plus , I just don't like associating myself with the word you use)

 

I want to see people being able to be who they are, whether that's a businessman in a suit who has a husband, 2.4 kids and a picket fence; a radical queer who refuses all mainstream ideas; or anything in between.

 

Interesting thread. I've always found the idea of gay people being a slightly more even mix of the fundamental masculine and feminine principles very appealing. That is my metaphysics however and although I only discovered I was gay recently I believed in the interplay of masculine and feminine principles beforehand so I had a nice metaphysical framework to fit my orientation into. If I was a total materialist I guess you would have to consider myself some form of evolutionary mistake

I think there is a good reason mainstream book based religions hate gay people and that is because gay people might be fundamentally occult and mystical. I have read that in some traditional African societies gay people were the gatekeepers to the spirit world. Also I think similar discoveries were made in other tribes (if any knows of a book discussing this And giving examples I would be very interested) in the Amazon. In Taoism they were obsessed about losing male spiritual essence when having sex with women etc.

 

In regards to the corporate nightmare. I think queer people have a good vantage point to view it's flaws but I don't think it's really a queers vs straights problem rather it's an elites vs everyone problem. The elites have had access, money and generations to implant modern ideology into the world. They have the resources and time to quash almost all opposition. it's a fight queer people are involved in probably more so than most but it's also a fight everyone should be involved in. I see our original role as spiritual/shamanic.

Interesting that Siberian shamans tended to dress as woman even affecting female accents on occasion. Found that online just now.

 

There's a difference between living your life as you wish and assimilation*.

I know of too many LGBT people who denounce the community as a whole and try to separate themselves. The faux-hetero desperate to fit in and pretend they're not like "them" - the open and non-conforming queers. A mixture of shame and a love for the (usually white male) hetero culture that works directly against them.

Then there are those who don't really have much interest in gay pride and other queer-centred things, but have no problem with the existence of the community, and will join in occasionally. The former is disastrous, the second can be anything from a conceited idiot with every other privilege who ignores others' rights once they've got their own, or being for social development and helping lead the way to rights of all kinds.

Assimilation means a loss of identity and the treatment of heterosexuality as superior. It means begging for the approval of the oppressors.

*Assimilation can never be full. There will always be social conservatives who deride LGBT people; they'll "accept" them, but will always treat them as inferiors in (not-so) subtle ways.

 

I think it is pretty hard for gay people to assimilate but possible. I've spent my whole life assimilating and squashing myself as I was in denial. Trying to find out who I am under it all is difficult but exciting. I've been brainwashed trying to undo it is difficult. Not having the courage to accept yourself is hard but I went to straightening school when I was younger and the lessons were pretty harsh

 

I think there's a LOT more options than the '1 & 2' you outline.

And I don't think I have anything much in common with other gay people aside from being gay. I share just as much in common with various human beings, and I don't see the need to hang labels on myself. Sure, I'm gay. Sure, I can contribute to society. But I'm not expecting that simply based on my sexual preference that I'm somehow so different from others.

The way 'assimilation' is mentioned, one would think we were about to be assimilated by The Borg.

Also, just because one gets married, it doesn't mean they disappear into some closet, and 'pretend you're queer only in bed with your lover'. Far from it. It's part of my identity, expressed in my poetry, in conversation, in life. I don't feel the need to wear some special badge, or live in a gay ghetto. I really don't see how you can make such an outlandish claim that one can only "Assimilate and pretend you're only queer in bed with your lover...", or move on to option 2, with no other possibilities.

There's a lot of middle ground here, and such brash, ham-fisted statements only serve to muddy and occlude the issues and stave off rational conversation.

I've been out since 1985, and I don't feel the the need to hide, nor assimilate.

 

It's hard to maintain our culture when you have lgbt people that don't know anything about Stonewall. How do you educate folks that won't look up something as basic as Stonewall?

 

assimilation is a pretty powerful force these days the world is increasingly homogeneous. There are powerful media and conditioning tools at work. All the economic uncertainty just breeds more fear and increases the motivation to conform and not take risks. One advantage most queer people have is that they do not have children with all the responsibilities that involves allowing them to live a much freer life with less constraints and more risk taking.

Nice pics of... Diversity!
Stunning Portraits Of The World’s Remotest Tribes Before They Pass Away (46 pics) | Bored Panda

 

Given the great diversity of my friends, LGBT, and otherwise, and the people I've known from all walks of life in all the various places I've lived and worked, I'd say it's a pretty simplistic, fear-mongering one, that seems judgmental, and overly black and white. Everyone assimilates to some degree.

You complain about evil binary forces, then give us choices 1 and 2.

I'm sorry, but I think you're more interested in advancing some odd crotchet than having a civil discussion by making such hyperbolic claims.

 

you ignored what I said and inserted you own word

I said equality and you inserted assimilate


equality
  Use Equality in a sentence
e·qual·i·ty
[ih-kwol-i-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural e·qual·i·ties.
1.
the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability



assimilate
  Use Assimilate in a sentence
as·sim·i·late
[v. uh-sim-uh-leyt; n. uh-sim-uh-lit, -leyt] Show IPA verb, as·sim·i·lat·ed, as·sim·i·lat·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to take in and incorporate as one's own; absorb: He assimilated many new experiences on his European trip.


one elevates everyone as being the same as each other, the other (your choice) is earasure, don't put words in my mouth

you are participating in what the patriarchy you so hate does!

so you want to set yourself up as a special better person just becaue of some "blessing" of how you were born? some higher class? what about us peons? are we setting up a caste system now? will I become an untouchable as a lesbian female?

as I said before equals, we are all people,, I am against the patriarchy and for all equality

FEMINISM IS EQUALITY aims to raise awareness about the implicit sexism that exists in our world and to challenge structural and institutional barriers. We hope to promote the recognition that feminism means equality in opportunity and treatment, not to promote one gender or antagonize another.

Feminism is equalism.

Feminism = Equality - Statement of Purpose


Feminism - Equality - Equal Rights - Feminity - Women's Liberation


Feminism means equality between men and women, and we’re not there yet - Telegraph

 

Absolutely this.

Straight people are as diverse a group as LGBT people, I have no problem getting on with straight people and I don't feel that there's any sort of pressure on me to fit on or 'assimilate' with the rest of society, I find the idea absurd.

---------- Post added 12th Dec 2013 at 06:51 PM ----------

Also, based on your last post, there's way more to your disaffection with US society than you being gay, it's strange to try and connect any of what you just talked about to your sexuality.

 

That's the post I was referring to. I'm not claiming that the things you mentioned aren't legitimate things to be concerned about, just that I don't see how any of these issues are specific to LGBT people, a straight person could be equally appalled as you by all the same things.