"Gay is a Choice, and Gays Can Change"

Here's a better question - why does it matter?

 

I disagree. Completely. Most people I've heard say it's a choice are straight, moralistic, and traditional. They are averse to anything GLBT.

However, that the straight white Christian male has been the antagonist is something I almost completely agree with.

Your hard wiring is not a choice. A person's sexuality can manifest itself at different ages. It is more of a predisposition, in my mind, in which someone will respond affirmatively to same sex stimulus and someone else won't.

You can't change someone's hard wiring, so change is not possible, except in some very unusual and negligible cases.

Acting on your desires and attraction is a choice. But since you're hard wired to do so, and that can't be changed, then why not do so? That's how I've looked at it for a long time. It's no big deal, except to the straight white Christian male.

Adding bisexuality to this already muddy area can only complicate and lengthen the discussion, so I think I've expressed enough through my opinion above.

 

So apparently we can change. Why should we?

Its no secret that some homophobes are queers in denial. It makes sense that if they're convinced they've turned away from homosexuality, so they believe others can. However, I honestly doubt that they are in the majority. For the most part, those who blather on about choice are heterosexuals who see us a deviating from the norm and the natural, and prefer to see it as a choice rather than confront how that would change their understanding of the world.

 

I have to commend you, for such a novel take on an old theme at EC: "Piss of Bisexuals for No Reason: The Thread"

 

I do see what you're saying. Internalized homophobia that is festering is indeed dangerous. However, I think the proportion of hateful straight white Christian males is likely to be higher among straight white males than the percentage of closeted gay/bi males among gays/bis as a whole and who are furthermore apt to get into gay bashing and conversion camps. Those few are numerically negligible and not well ... in the head. Most of the closeted gays and bis are in the "get out of the way" category, if we're talking "lead, follow, or get out of the way." Most are burrowing.

And, no, I'm not offended by this debate at all.

 

What if I don't want to change?

 

Even though you mention misogyny and gay men, based on your posting history, I know that's secondary to the real point you're trying to make. That is why I am questioning the rhetorical purpose of this thread.

It seems to me like this is just another example of your axe-grinding against bisexuals. This continues a pattern that has been going on since at least February this year, maybe longer, where if an opportunity presents itself to say something hostile about bisexuals, you do so. And when told how offensive it is, you simply double down.

Where do you see a constructive conversation? What, in your ideal world, are we going to do if we accept 100% of the arguments you're putting forward here?

As to the article, in my opinion, it's short, not well-explained, and internally cites questionable sources. The first citation is from a Slate article. Bering, in the Slate article, cites the well-known erectile response research. But that research doesn't say people who express homophobia are likely to be bisexual. It says they are likely to be repressing same-sex desire. Which means they could be bisexual or gay. To narrow it to bisexuality makes a stronger claim than what the research actually supports. And then the third citation. "How Stuff Works"? Really? That's not exactly a high level of scholarship.

 

Unless you're claiming that either there is a much higher proportion of non-heterosexuals than has been found experimentally, or that there is little more that 5% of the population that is homophobic, I fail to see how this is possible. And I wouldn't believe anything that directly contradicted the available data.

In response to your secondary point about gay men and misogyny, what are you saying? That men turn gay because they hate women? Or that being gay causes a man to hate women?

Oh, and yeah, I don't exactly thank you for all the bisexual hatred.

 

I dont want to change. Im more scared of what people will think of me tbh. I think we are born this way. I dont think you can change.

 

Even if I could change; I wouldn't want to.

 

I thought that was common sense. If you can choose to be with either gender, then your bisexual. Simple as that. Too bad the people who call sexuality a choice are to stupid to figure that out.

 

Am I the only one who believes in the Kinsey Scale on this forum...
Anyways, it's just not rational to make a (hypothetical) choice to "become gay".
Hypothetical Situation: It really is a choice.
You'd endure a lot of pointless suffering (especially in places like Jamaica).
You'd get a lot of retarded stereotypes thrown at you.
Most people would choose to be straight to prevent this.
If the person lived in a sufficiently accepting area, then they'd want to keep their options open, right?
I.e., most people would choose to be bisexuals.
Homosexuality (and heterosexuality, for that matter) would limit your options to one gender. Most people identify as 100% straight (which they are most likely not).

Bam.

 

If this were true, there wouldn't be far more male homophobes out there. It would just all be bisexuals, which are a tiny % of the population, and the other 98% would support us. The other massively detrimental thing you're ignoring is religion. With that level of mind control, of course a huge number who are not gay will insist we can change.

Finally, gender roles are such that it's really drilled into guys' heads to not "act gay" and an admission that gay is not a choice carries some implications: 1) they could have been born gay themselves and just lucked out, crushing that whole hyper-masculine hierarchy; 2) it suggests we don't have as much control over our feelings as we'd like, another thing highly valued in the alpha male.

Someone else said it's simply "dick fear" leading to a strong desire to "beat the gay out of them."

I dislike this thread because of scapegoating bisexuals and also associating LGBT with repressed homosexuals/bisexuals who have nothing better to do than hate on us. I'm sure they exist, but it's playing right into the homophobes' hands. It suggests we should pity instead of shun them or fight back.

 

I actually do kind of wonder about this. If I'd been raised as some kind of homophobic hyper-evangelical conservative, distasteful as the thought may be, I could see myself identifying as straight and having those same conclusions.

 

If I could change I probably would. Look don't get offended and all but I hate being gay. It bought nothing but misery. >.> I wish I could go one day without thinking about being gay and stuff.