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What if the U.S lost the American Revolution?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by anthonythegamer, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. I'm the type of person that's obsessed with alternate realities and "what if" scenarios. This topic randomly popped up in my head, what would the U.S be like we had lost the American Revolution?

    Personally, I think the U.S would have been better off if we had been under British rule for a longer time. Most of the first-world Commonwealth countries are ahead of the U.S on social and political issues now, like gay marriage, universal health care, and less gun crime.

    I think we'd be using the metric system on a daily basis and possibly have those cool accents (specifically the accents like the Aussies, British, and New Zealanders). I also think racism against Africans would have been resolved much earlier since the British empire abolished slavery 30 years earlier than independent United States.

    What do you guys think? Would the U.S have been better off if we just waited for our independence like Australia and Canada, or would we have been worse?

    (BTW, I know you guys technically aren't independent since you guys are under the Commonwealth that's under the British queen which is something I kind of don't understand but that's a whole other thread.)
     
    #1 anthonythegamer, Dec 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2013
  2. MrAllMonday

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    You would have been better off with us. We have the NHS here lol.
     
  3. Jwis

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    I too often wonder these things. It is so hard to think of what would have happened, but fun at the same time.

    I'm not sure we would have been better off - I think major events such as WWI and WWII would have gone very differently.

    There is a decent mockumentry if you never seen it called the Confederate States of America. All about if the south had won the civil war.
     
  4. Foxface

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    The Native Americans would have been slaughtered by a different people?

    Foxface
     
  5. Aussie792

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    It really depends on what happened in the rest of the world that would shape US (or British Colonial) events.

    Without the loss of the US, would Canada and Australia be developed by the British as they were?
    Would Australia even be colonised by the British? France and Sweden narrowly missed out on it.
    Would Britain take the French and Spanish North American colonies?
    If the French Revolution did happen (the bankruptcy that caused the Estates to gather was largely war debt after the American war), and the situation unfolded as it did, would Napoleon have gone bankrupt before he was emperor without American trade and the sale of Louisiana?
    Would the South American colonies want to be independent from Spain?
    Would the colonial British be able to fight so efficiently against the Native Americans? Would Britain invade the inland as US did?
    Without the US Civil War, what would happen with South American (if they broke off in the first place) nations, bolstered in reality by the agricultural collapse of the Southern US?
    Would Mexico have been able to remain a world power and an Austrian-aligned empire? Would Mexico even be its own country?
    Would the European countries engage in the scrambles for Africa and East-Asia?
    Would Italy (its unification tied to the French Revolution, the Napoleonic Wars, the South American Wars of Independence) have become a single country?


    I think hypothetical situations are so fraught with little changes that make big changes that there's no way to judge how things would have went. Without it, I don't think the 19th century would have progressed in a similar way to how it really did. There are no isolated incidents, and the implications of US independence are so massive that the modern world without it is quite literally unthinkable.
     
  6. Oh wow, I never really thought about it like that :rolle: butterfly effect perhaps. I think California would still be part of Mexico due to the Spanish influence. Damn, I didn't think it'll be that complicated.
     
  7. Gen

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    It's also important to remember that the historical first world is not comparable to the modern first world. Life in the Colonies nor Britain were in any way the romanticized utopias we see in historical fiction unless you were born into upper nobility. Life was difficult no matter where you lived and the upper class essentially comprised of a group of family lines that you could probably count with less than ten fingers.

    Great Britain was notorious for conquering land and then leaving it to rot. Regardless of who you believe to be the better country now, America wouldn't have even seen the first world without the American Revolution. It was a country under the power of European world that was literally out of sight and out of mind.

    Revolution is a blessing on human society. When single powers garner too much power, the worst ideals of Social Darwinism really begin to flourish.
     


  8. most of the area would be speaking Spanish and possibly some areas of French, not English

    Economic development would not have gone on the same way

    the full implications of not having the US through all of the industrial developments and not having any of what developed into the West are unimaginable

     
  9. An Gentleman

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    A world without America?
    Too many variables.
    I could spend all year thinking about it.
     
    #9 An Gentleman, Dec 20, 2013
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  10. MrAllMonday

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    OH MY LORD...dude become a lecturer/politician.
     
  11. Data

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    I don't think we'd be better off or worse off. If we had lost the FIRST revolution, there would be another. Ideas don't die easily.

    The US was bound to happen. The British treated the Colonists very poorly, and the pot was boiling for quite a while before the shot heard 'round the world.
     
  12. Techno Kid

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    I like to think of Canada as an alternate history U.S. hehe

    It's really hard to say what would of happened. Maybe less aboriginals (first nations) would of been killed. Maybe the U.S. would not of moved west. Maybe there would be no railways going across North America. Maybe more nature would have been left untouched.

    A lot would be different! Good thread idea! :slight_smile:
     
    #12 Techno Kid, Dec 20, 2013
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  13. BryanM

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    George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and the lot of them would be considered traitors and Benedict Arnold would be a hero.
    We'd all drink tea instead of coffee.
    We'd be a colony of Britain still, which admittedly may be okay.
    The Western US would probably be owned by the Spanish or French.
     
  14. MrAllMonday

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    Well the US would not have become a tyrant like today if Britain had won. I think the US has finally gone ga ga because of winning wars and stuff. Now the US is like WE ARE AMERICANS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WHERE THE FOUNDING DADDIES GAVE US A SOLE PERMISSION FROM OUR GAWD TO CONQUER THE WORLD, SAVE BROWN PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES, TO SPREAD DEMOCRACY AND PEACE! USA USA US USA USA USA YEAAAAH *WAVES THE FLAG*

    lolloloolol don't mind me I've lost it.
     
  15. Necromancer

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    God damn it. I had a giant typed out explanation of the most likely scenario, and my antivirus software asked permission to restart my computer while I was typing. It took my typing as consent, and I lost my post :tantrum:

    Let's go again, in a shorter version. Chances are, Britain fucks up relations with the colonies for a bit with stern retaliation for the rebellion in order to make some examples and show who is in charge. Parliament will probably go for reconciliation eventually, though. They aren't movie villains or brainless blockheads, and Britain will not take the risk of losing the money the colonies provide with another rebellion, which is brewing by now. All it takes to stop this whole business of independence is the death of virtual representation. With that done, the colonists would have little desire to rebel.

    Westward expansion from the Colonies isn't happening. There is no suggestion that Britain would remove the statutes forbidding it, and non-Colonial/non-Spanish territory (the Louisiana territory is Spanish at this point in time, not French) was guaranteed to Quebec. As a result, that region is settled by further waves of immigrants from Europe and the Colonies, but under Quebecois rule. The Pacific Northwest goes to Britain, and Britain is sure to fight Spain eventually. Britain probably crushes Spain and takes territory, most likely Caribbean islands and California. British expansion into Africa and Asia is most likely lowered do to the demands of administering America. I would doubt the whole of India being under British rule in this scenario. The crown jewel is America.

    Independence will happen eventually, but under good terms. Think of how Canada and Australia became independent in the real world. It would be almost identical to that, though I doubt the 13 colonies will be one nation (I expect a North/South split at the very least, and a separate New England wouldn't be surprising at all). Quebec's status depends on who settles where, and the other parts of Canada probably don't unify into one nation.

    ---------- Post added 21st Dec 2013 at 12:25 AM ----------

    Marginally fewer, yes, but still a staggering number. Britain was better than the US in this regard, but not by very much, and disease did most of the damage.
    No US to do so.
    No, their still would be. Britain invented the idea, after all. They won't hold back on building them in their crown jewel colony.
    Unlikely unless immigration to British territory far outpaces immigration to Spanish territory or vice versa.

    ---------- Post added 21st Dec 2013 at 12:38 AM ----------

    Canada, yes. Australia? Probably not so much, with Georgia still available for convict dumping.
    Sweden must have Australia. That is too awesome an idea for it not to happen.
    What French colonies? Britain took everything after the French and Indian War. France didn't have any territory left outside the Caribbean until they bought the Louisiana Territory from Spain. As for Spain, Britain will probably fight them, but only take what it really wants (dominion over the Caribbean and resource rich California), not everything.
    I doubt the revolution would happen, but I don't think American trade and the proceeds from the sale of Louisiana provided enough money to last more than a few months.
    Most certainly.
    Yes.
    In some regions.
    Probably more insular, agrarian communities and less money overall.
    Mexico probably does remain a world power.
    Yes.
    It may take longer, but eventually nationalism will take hold.

    ---------- Post added 21st Dec 2013 at 12:48 AM ----------

    It's funny, but has no basis in fact. Aside from the idea of the CSA wanting to conquer all of America, much less having the ability, being ludicrous, a southern victory would leave the south a dystopia. The economy has absolutely zero chance. The main cotton customers have found other suppliers, and that is the base of the entire economy. There is a deep recession due to the war, and nothing available to replace cotton. To make matters worse, the constitution explicitly forbids the feds from making infrastructure improvements. Add in a government based very, very heavily around maintaining slavery and rural agrarianism, and you do not have a recipe for success in any way, shape, or form.
     
    #15 Necromancer, Dec 21, 2013
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  16. Argentwing

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    I have no idea. While I wouldn't be totally against the idea of a British-ruled America, there is a slim chance there would have just been a second revolution if the colonists remained dissatisfied with the way things were going.

    With how terrible our government is treating us lately though (and how happy the Brits seem to be with their system), it's looking better for the alternate-history interpretation. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  17. Hexagon

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    Very little would have been different. The british are just as awful, selfish and stupid as every other nation. For instance, right now, I'd say there is even more xenophobia in the UK than there is in the US.
     
  18. GeeLee

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    I'll have you know it's a key policy of her majesty's government to have all members of UKIP removed from the country. Should cure the xenophobia problem straight away.
     
  19. Sitri

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    Would that even be possible? I'm not saying the U.S had an enormous and powerful military, but they had the aid of France and to a lesser degree Spain. The ottomans even looked like they were going to step in. When you become as large an empire as England was it turns out everybody wants to watch you fall without igniting your full wrath.

    Also, my history teacher compared it to Vietnam. The more troops you send, the more upset they get. Even if every continental army fell, it is likely there would be a strong presence of terrorists like groups (such as the Sons of Liberty) and guerrilla fighters (like Francis Marion).

    Perhaps a better question would be what if it never happened. After the seven years war (which lasted nine years) the colonies were feeling confident. France was gone, and it turns out, the British were too gentlemanly to resort to anything other than their way of war (which is how Braddock wound up dead). At this time parliament decided the colonies should help pay for the war. After all, a colonist (by the name of George Washington) started it. This didn't sit well with Americans who (always have and always will) hate paying taxes. Eventually, parliament realized how dangerously upset the colonist were and reduced the taxes. But so called "freedom fighters " such as Samuel Adams would not allow this brewing revolution to die off. There are even rumors that he was the one who fired "the shot heard round the world". After the battle of Bunker Hill (America's greatest victory that was actually a loss) delegates from 12 of the thirteen colonies signed the "olive branch petition " and sent it to King George III to ask for peace. Of course, King George was not the most... mentally capable of monarchs so he turned it down, effectively solidifying the revolution.
     
  20. Hexagon

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    UKIP aren't the only xenophobes. The government does a pretty good job of it on their own, as do most people in general. Also, that sounds unlikely.
     
    #20 Hexagon, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013