Alright, I'm a little curious as to how other people would handle this. When I talk to my mom about certain things which I'm certain of, she'll disagree with a scientifically backed explanation as if she can just say "I don't agree" and it can be left at that. For example: We were cooking and I said "Which do you think burns you worse, boiling water or steam?" She says "Boiling water" to which I reply "Actually the steam will burn worse. Boiling water is 212F but it is still liquid. Steam can be 212F or more, but it has changed phase. When boiling water is dumped on you, it evaporates and takes energy with it. If you get blasted with steam, the steam will condense on your skin and give up its phase change energy to your skin, increasing the amount of energy you absorb and burning you more then the water." She just says "No, I think the water will burn you more." and leaves it at that. :eusa_doh: I said "You can't disagree, it's plain physics." Then she gets angry. Another example: She insists on leaving the ceiling fans on in every room if it's hot during the summer. I turn the fans off whenever I get a chance. She yelled at me one time and I explained it to her: Your body makes sweat that evaporates off your skin and takes energy with it, thus cooling you off. Blowing air across your skin will evaporate the sweat faster and cool you off faster. The fan moves air around the room and blows the dry air across your skin, cooling you off. The couch, the chair, the walls, the TV all don't have any sweat glands and don't evaporate any water. Therefore, the fan doesn't cool off the room at all. The air is still the same temperature, even if you FEEL cooler when you're in it. She says "Well I want them on anyway, so leave them on." :eusa_doh: IT'S WASTING ELECTRICITY! The other day, my sister said she was hot and asked me to turn off the thermostat (set at 67) and turn the ceiling fan on low. I turned on the fan but didn't turn the thermostat off. She got mad and said that the fan was going to blow on the thermostat and make the heat come on even MORE then it was before. :badgrin: I gave her that same spiel as above, and she grudgingly accepted it. My mother though, she just doesn't listen! What would you do? I don't know what to say to somebody who "disagrees" with science that has been in place for hundreds of years. Science that can describe the rotation and mass of a black hole millions of light years away, yet somehow is wrong about steam and air temperature. :rolle:
Yes, I have a similar conversation with creationists. If I'm in a mood to argue, I argue. If I'm not, I mourn the human species.
I say similar things to people and get similar responses. I think the problem is that discussing what you know or believe to be right can come across to people like an attack. So someone says "2 + 2 = 7". You correct them "No, actually 2 + 2 = 4". They might think you are right, but the tone in your voice, or your body language, or your lack of understanding for why they feel that way makes them think they are being attacked and so they don't want to listen. To them it sounds like "No, actually 2 + 2 = 4, you moron. Pshh. Idiot." So I would say when you are discussing anything to be receptive to why people believe what they do before you attempt to correct them. That way there is a feeling of understanding, and not one of one-upsmanship, or superiority.
My dad got mad at my brother because he shaved his moustache, he thinks it will make his facial hair grow faster and thicker. He also thinks that playing basketball and hanging from branches will make you taller. I don't even bother to try to correct him.
They seriously aren't worth your time. People like that want to be "right" all the time, telling her she's wrong makes her feel less significant, and she doesn't like that.
People will believe what they want to believe. See, with this kind of stuff, I don't personally feel like it's that big of a deal. It's a ceiling fan - I don't know exactly if what you say is true, because I live in a house that's very old and it gets really hot in spots where there's no fan or circulation. I guess now I'm an idiot for buying into it, but hey.... Seriously, though.....things change. Just relax and maybe listen to what others say, and you could learn something.
she does this because when she stands in the bathroom and there is steam it does not hurt her, or when she holds her hand over the boiling water it does not hurt, but when boiling water pours on her hand it DOES burn her. LIFE experience trumps science every time, whether you like it or not. MY house, MY electric bill, don't like the way I want to run MY house? there is the front door don't let is hit you on the :***: ass on the way out.
Arguing something seldom convinces anybody of anything. What is really happening is that you are challenging her perception of her intelligence and/or her authority. You could be right as rain, but if you prove someone wrong, you are hurting their sense of self and they will retaliate with arbitrariness or worse. Actions speak louder than words, demonstrate rather than argue. I'm familiar with the ceiling-fan fallacy having been exasperated by the same pig-headedness. Instead of arguing, stick a thermometer in the room with a ceiling fan, have her take down the readings! One day with the temperature outside at say, 80 degrees F, fan on; then another day with the same outside temperature, but fan off. A true story: Around 1502, Piero Soderini, the mayor of Florence, Italy, commissioned Michelangelo to create a statue out of a beautiful piece of marble that was inadvertently marred by a hole bored through it. Michelangelo took on the challenge nevertheless and created his most famous statue, the young David, sling in hand. Soderini, fancying himself a connoisseur of art came to see the work, from his perspective he stated that the nose was too large. Michelangelo understood that it was a matter of perspective, and that this illusion would be corrected by changing the point of view. Nevertheless, Michelangelo also understood the pointlessness of arguing: in the presence of Soderini, he secretly picked up a little marble dust and his chisel, went up to the nose and for a few minutes delicately tapped on the nose while letting the dust fall to the ground. He did not alter the nose at all. Michelangelo then guided Soderini to the right point of view, whereupon Soderini replied: "I like it better, you've made it come alive!" In this way, no feelings were hurt, and the statue avoided being ruined.
Ok I'll offer some science background to the first statement. Transfer of heat depends on a lot of things. Specific heat capacity, amount and temperature and in this case latent heat and heat of vaporization. If you get a little bit of boiling water on you that is not a change of state nor is it a high volume. Now plunging your hand into a pot of boiling water would have extreme surface area contact very efficiently transferring thermal energy. Now if steam condenses on you... it depends on the amount and how heated it is. Yes, relatively the change of state back from a gas to a liquid would burn you severely. It basically depends on a function of many properties. But a super heated steam will generally be worse than a little spill of boiling water.
Data, all I can say is that you cannot have a battle of reason with an unarmed opponent. I was fortunate enough to be shown the difference of fact and opinion in elementary school, but I don't think everyone really knows that facts are not up for discussion. I'd have to say "It's not a matter of preference; you are wrong. "
Ronald Reagan used to do exactly the same thing. People would offer him irrefutable facts (about the budget, spending, AIDS, whatever the issues of the day were) and he'd respond in his sweet way with "Oh, I don't think that's true." Ignorance + denial = maddening. It isn't worth trying to waste your time with people who won't listen to reason. Just let it go.
I don't know if anyone's said this not or yet... I don't think it's a 'hatred or denial of science' that's offsetting them. It's the approach. You take an intellectually superior and elitist tone in your wording. People hate being proven wrong, they just do. Instead of being adamant or stubborn headed about it try taking a more considerate and understanding approach. Also, not all people are crazy about science, some people find it boring and uninteresting ( I rather enjoy science myself ) I think you just need to take a different approach about. Make it more about offering information than about who's right and who's wrong
