Done with religion

I don't think you understand the importance of religion in forming a cultural identity. It's very easy for an American to deride religion, but when it is a cultural group's only way to keep together and maintain any sort of pride, organised religion is vital. Christianity in the West is so deeply ingrained into the psyche of Westerners (and other cultures) that loose belief is possible; nothing really threatens the primacy of Christian culture, wherever you are.

In a country like Palestine, one of the greatest parts of national unity against Israel (beside ethnicity) is religion and culture. It provides a sort of defence, an identity with their own country and their neighbours. Sikhs in India need a national identity within India so that Sikh interests aren't ignored by the larger groups. Many nations with an official religion have it to prevent the culturally eroding aftermath of colonialism and ongoing Western cultural supremacy. Organised religion is very necessary when you don't have the luxury of hyper-individualism as is available for Christian-cultured groups in the West. When a culture/religion is oppressed, the best way to fight back is with unity, which encourages strict devotion to the cause.

 

I agree in general at what Aussie792 said,
if you look anywhere in the world, there is always some kind of religion going on one way or the other, so thats a fact

But as for what u (ember) said about people judging others who don't follow a certain religion, I agree, but that not how everyone see it, people will stay judgmental until the end if its religion, or race, or sexual-preference or w/e ..
What we can strive for is that the non-judgmental people to repreduce faster than the ones that are judgmental
Ok but im just getting creative here, maybe because I saw a movie called Idiocracy ...
[YOUTUBE]BBvIweCIgwk[/YOUTUBE]


As for the smallish thing Aussie792 said - u said 'palestine' and 'israel' as they are two different countries, in fact, its the same country, on the map u see it as 'israel' but the people who want it back call it 'palestine', just saying :icon_bigg

 

People hating Israel isn't good. Religion divides people. Why does a culture need a belief about a guy who made the universe. What is cultural identity anyway, when it comes down to it we are all stupid apes holding onto dear life to a speck in a universe far greater in size then the piece of dust we life on that flies around the sun. We should all just acknowledge this and forget about stupidity like religion. I don't get it, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY RELIGION, hence it was clearly pulled out of someone’s ass. Why can't we all just get under a banner of science and compassion and try to make everyone's life worth living.

Anyway on the point at hand. You were born with a brain to think for yourself. Not to be part of the pack and think like everyone else does. "I'd rather be a king below than a sheep above" is a quote I live by. Who cares about what group you were born in "roots are for vegetables" be your own person. Religion is just a tool to control people.

 

I mostly agree with you, except that not all people have religion inflicted upon them by others for control. Some use it against their subjects, but it isn't something you can apply to denounce the others.

But personally, I am the same as the OP, just a little less angry about it. I'd prefer if religion didn't exist because it leads to so much ugliness, but I do believe in God and that I've been called to be the best person I can be. My best explanation into why that is would be that we don't know a millionth of one percent of what's out there, nor could we ever with our limited observation of reality. To me it's irrational to believe that all the wonder (and especially order) of the universe just... exists, with no power outside of time to create it.

For that I feel that I'll be rewarded in life and after death, but that doesn't mean I believe that others are going to hell and need to be "saved" by adopting this kind of independent system. Nor do I want to kill others because they don't share it. Essentially, mine is a relationship with God without all the goofy crap made up by people cut out.

 

You really need to step back and realise how patronising that all sounds. "Be free of your oppressive culture and adopt beliefs that exactly mirror mine!" is the basis of your argument.

Why can't we all adopt "science and compassion?" Because your definition of that is the abolition of cultural values different from yours, and the derision of beliefs that don't pass your approval as if you were an impartial superior being with the ability to judge. If you think Western "science and compassion" is actually totally scientific and compassionate then you need to read some history. In any case, science is very developed even in religious dictatorships like Iran.

The existence of religion is very important in that way; you believe that your Western, secular-Christian* values are superior to anything that isn't. You want to abolish anyone's beliefs if they're not also yours. With the examples I gave, you basically claimed Muslims don't need their religion and their culture, but they need your culture and your values. Your claims about religion set you up as a superior being with insight others don't have. Your argument is "us and them," "savages vs the civilised."

You literally say that people who don't have your world-view are of inferior intellect and being controlled by some sinister forces of religion. Tell a religious person in a secular society that they can be "free" of the "evils" of their religion; make your post from the hospital.

And you say religion is what causes division.


*Western values are inseparable from Christianity, no matter how secular.

 

i walked out of sunday school as a kid (age 7) because i felt that something wasn't right - (never went back to a church unless it was to look at the architecture/design/build of the building or it was a special occasion - for xmas in 2005 in the UK with my dads mum (who has since passed)).

 

Religion is something that I believe is a neutral, benign force.
It can lead people to do good, and it can lead them to do bad.
Heck, America's roots are in religious freedom.
Atheist or deist or whatever you are, religion has probably impacted you or someone you know!

 

Less than 1% of all scientific papers come from the Islamic world. "Tell a religious person in a secular society that they can be "free" of the "evils" of their religion; make your post from the hospital." this kind of supports my point. It's not western values I'm talking about it's the values that have been shown throughout history to making a better society. There is a reason that the west is a lot richer than the rest of the world and china are taking a while to catch up the people there are actually pretty poor. Western values are certainly not inseparable from Christianity. What does the bible teach that forms "western values". The bible teaches slavery, horrific execution and certainty says nothing about science and reason. The bible did not inspire the enlightenment. We are what we are in spite of the Christianity not because of it. And before you talk about feeding the poor and so on, most society peach that, it's called being a good human being.

I can give amply evidence why our society is better than most around the world. GDP, child morality, contributions to Science, etc.. This isn't because we are lucky it's because we have had our enlightenment and left our dark age at least before other societies. Some places such as the middle east have not. They one day will but before then religions in those countries will inspire more death and division.

People aren't less intelligent in these countries they just have less education and often belief fairy tales such as the bible over science which has been proven by the scientific method. I certainty don't believe in "secular-christian" values what ever that means.

 

Just so you know, the Islamic world was a very enlightened place around 1000-1300 a.d. The only reason westerners advanced quickly after that time* was because the Christian knights came back from crusades (of killing muslims and conquering their lands) with knowledge of middle eastern science and medicine. It was also a little before then that the branch of math called algebra was developed, by guess who? A muslim.

al Khwarizmi

Religion has its influences, but ultimately it is not the force which brings people up or suppresses them. You're likely closer by saying it's a forcible lack of education and infliction of propaganda on the people.

*There's also the matter of the Black Death in 1348, but that's another story.

 

Yes, it was because back then they believe in science and reason. Islam back then was less radical. But then they started to become more radical and they declared that science was of the devil and burned down the library of Alexandria (which included knowledge that the Earth orbited the sun).

It had nothing to do with the crusaders the only reason we knew even a fraction of Islamic science was because of the Islamic libraries in Spain that we conquered before the new radical Muslims could burn them down.

p.s. Also a lot of the stars in the sky have Arabic names

The Erosion of Progress by Religions - YouTube

 

This is good to hear Ember, believe in god all you want but get rid of the religion, it's useless baggage! Religion divides people, creates war, disease, hatred and discrimination against different types of people.

 

Social Darwinism encouraged a great deal of racism (and a similar idea still prevails today; the most developed = inherently/rightly superior, as you clearly believe) throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. Science isn't inherently good; the observer will often twist it to justify their beliefs. Ever heard of the widely accepted scientific doctrines of racial purity levels and the classification of black slaves who didn't want to work as having a mental disorder borne of black laziness?

Now tell me why the West is richer than the rest of the world. And why exploitation is a sign of superiority. Have you ever bothered learning basic world history? It would show you how the West came to have more power and money, and it's not a pretty story.

And please show where you got your statistic on "1% of scientific papers come from the Islamic world."

---------- Post added 13th Jan 2014 at 08:12 AM ----------

Do you know even the slightest thing about Islam? Did you know the first (or possibly first few; the records are conflicting) burning of the Library of Alexandria was done by the Romans? And that Islamic societies kept the greatest known store of knowledge in the world from the Fall of Rome until around the 18th century? Islamic libraries held a more comprehensive knowledge of Europe than European libraries. The Almoravid and Almohad empires had education and science and protected them well.

 

All that video shows is that the attitude changed. The religion was there for hundreds of years before they took their downward turn. It's not that religion is bad or even that Islam is bad; it's that religion and science can coexist and should for the best society possible.

 

I hate religion now my parents call me Godless and all that stuff , I don't like how religion likes to say they love people then talk about hate .

 

I feel you on family being annoying about it(in general).

I keep my own views from my family for this reason. They aren't 'bible thumpers' who have memorized it word for word, but they are still very much religious when it comes down to it(the usual thing with blessing/thanking God for everything and all that, you know what I mean).

The one time I questioned God's existence openly to my mom, she basically went off.

I pretty much just do my own thing and don't talk about religion altogether.

 

I remember i did that too about church system and my mom told me i was no longer able to hang out with my friends . My wants me to go to church and ask me if i do but i don't go lately i've been keeping my views to myself because it doesn't start an all out war

 

I identify as pagan and a lesbian. People were much more accepting of my sexual identity than my religion. I asked one of the biggest critics about that and they told me ( it makes them question their beliefs.).