Dunno if this is the right place so move if you must. I got into an online discussion with someone about tolerance vs bigotry. And decide to write my own little spiel. He said the LGBT people feel that if you are not accepting and promoting, you are viewed as a bigot. I had some thoughts...and wrote them Tell me what you think: I said no...I don't think so. I think Acceptance is different than tolerance which is different that bigotry. Acceptance: my father (and my siblings) are what I call accepting. My father loves me, my partner and fully supports us in getting married. He is the type of father who would speak out against anti-gay sentiments (and has done so at his church) and prob would wear a rainbow shirt in a parade. He is Catholic, but extremely happy and can't wait for our wedding. He is anxious for grandchildren and can't push us fast enough. Tolerance: I consider my mother in law and father in law, as well as one of my brother in laws and his wife tolerant. They are Catholic. They don't support gay marriage. They will NEVER see is as normal. However they have a live and let live attitude. We don't kiss or caress in front of them out of respect. They don't preach at us or call us names. We visit, we talk we have dinners together and they simply ignore the fact that I'm their daughter/sister's fiancee. We see her nephew, have a relationship with them and she attended her brother's wedding 2 years ago, but ask that we not tell him about our relationship. They'll do it later (and prob explain that its wrong, but oh well) We are well aware that if their daughter left me and married a man, they'd jump for joy. They ask her about it occasionally, she says she's still gay, they sigh and move on Bigotry: I consider my mother and my other brother-in law homophobic Bigots. They don't believe in gay marriage, Will never see it as normal and feel the need to constantly let us know. My mother likes to make snide comments about relating homosexuality to bestiality and constantly tells me I'm a sinner and that I need to go back to God. My brother-in-law takes it a step further and calls my partner names, a sinner, that she is going to hell and can't stop saying mean things. She is not allowed at his wedding, to have no relationship with him or his wife...and he contacts her repeatedly to tell her this. Conclusion: I find the difference between tolerance and bigotry to be how you handle your beliefs. Whether you push them on others or simply say "I don't agree with your 'lifestyle'" and move on. The line is crossed when you spew hateful garbage at those who disagree with you. When you start condemning others out loud, instead of praying for them privately (as my in-laws do). When you move forward with trying to enact laws to prevent other from certain rights, because your religious beliefs call their life immoral. When you say you feel sorry for a child with two parents of the same sex...out loud and to those parents. When you tell them you won't serve them in a restaurant, bakery, or store, despite the fact their money is just as good as others. Most, if not ALL LGBT people want tolerance, not necessarily acceptance. None of us want bigotry. We live in a world where people have different beliefs and moral values based on their own conscience and if/what religion they follow. And the world is big enough for all. Your job is your job. And if you own a public business, you are doing your job, not supporting somone just because you take their money and serve them a meal. You dont have to accept us. You just have to live in the same world as us. So what do you think? Do you feel like I do? Or what?
I agree with you completely, and this was a very well written response. In an ideal world, full on acceptance would be nice. However, I agree that LGBT community mainly just wants to be tolerated, and to be treated with basic respect. You don't have to love us, or agree with us. Hell, you can hate us. Just don't be disrespectful and rude by spouting out how we're evil faggots who are going to hell. I think allot of religious people forget that in the bible, Jesus said to love your enemies. Everyone deserves to be treated like an equal. Like a living and breathing person, with feelings and emotions. Everyone deserves basic rights (like being able to eat at a restaurant or go grocery shopping). Those who are vocal with their hate and prejudice are indeed bigots, and should be recognized as such.
I see the problem is that if you don't agree with the LGBT+ community 100% you're a bigot and sexist. There's no winning with the community, it just wants you to totally accept everything they agree with. You can't just say "I don't agree with you on this point" and go on with your life.
Do you think most of us are like that? Or at least the representatives of our community are? I know that my partner and I aren't like that, and neither are our friends.
I'm wondering where this view is coming from, because neither me nor anyone else I've met in the LGBT community feels this way. I'm perfectly fine with people disagreeing with me and the way that I live. Will a be best friends with those who feel I'm immoral and unnatural? Maybe not. Will I treat them with respect and dignity? Yes. And ideally, they should treat me with respect and dignity too, but regardless I won't stoop down to a hateful person's level and call them the names they might call me. You can in fact say "I don't agree with you on this point." and move on with your life :rolle:
The thing is some of them who make the bigotry and out right hate speech don't see what there doing is wrong and hurtful their no different than the ones that phsycailly harm gays they think it's alright as long they have religion to use as an excuse to be a bigot and out right hateful to people , some of them even think they are doing God's work acting like that and that's what I find very sickening I agree with everything you said I would like to be tolerated I'm not trying to shove the way I love down anyone throat .
I would go so far as to add another level above acceptance that describes active encouragement: embracing. This is where they want to see GSM rights advance and look at it as every bit as respectable as heterosexuality. "Acceptance" means they're okay with it, "tolerance" that they might not be totally on board but are willing to deal (hate the sin, love the sinner), and "bigotry" that they aren't willing to deal. Acceptance and tolerance are alright, I suppose. You don't have to love something in order to let it be. And as for those saying "tolerate my intolerance", at least gay people don't (generally at least) actively oppress others, unlike those who use this.
You hit the nail right on the head with that post, if this site had a Rep system I would Rep you, instead you get a internet hug: (Hugs!) I am still far in the closet only a few friends know about it, and some people online know, but in the offline world my family has no clue, and I have no intention of ever telling them because I know they are what you described as Bigots even if they pretend to Tolerate it to peoples faces, behind their backs I have seen their reactions and it makes me so frustrated at them and afraid of ever telling them. My grandfather is the worse saying hateful things like: "Where living in the last days those Queers are getting married in unholy unions, they should all be round up and shot." I am my Grandpa's Favorite yet, unbeknownst to him I am one of the Left-Wing, Socialist, LGBT people he hates so much. He's got heart problems he would probably die of a heart attack if I told him so even if I come out of the closet it won't be until my last two grandparents pass, because I refuse to be the reason they freak out and die. My father is a Bipolar suicidal person who tries to fix his problems with Weed, and thinks he knows every thing because he's older, he thinks I am playing video games all the time when I am on this computer but instead I am being productive writing and being creative or blogging or posting on forums. If I told my Fundamentalist Christian family I am not as perfect as they assume I am as they try to force me to be they would all fall apart, who knows how dad would respond, he might even get pushed over the edge and take his own life. My mother is mentally handicapped, with a severe learning disability, and you have to explain things to her over a 1000 times for her to understand. I told her one of my friends is Bi, she kept saying so he is gay? over and over again and I had to keep explaining the difference between a gay person and a bisexual person. My grandmother has schizophrenia and is the sweetest woman in the world, but she gets nervous easily and if I told her she might stop taking her medicine and have another break down. She knows I am bi, she walked in on me and another male making love but thought it was her schizophrenia, so she some times knows and other times doesn't. Grandpa has a rage problem and has thrown tantrums before as if he is nuts. I have to be the Perfect Mediator between all these people in my family the one who calms every one down, the one who has to burden all of this emotional strain of being in the closet in a Christian family who hates non-straights. I want so much to tell each of them off about how they are bigots, but I know it would do more harm then good so I hold my tongue because unlike them, I am a better person. Call it a inflated ego if you want, but I have to be a perfectionist, or my family would fall apart. Takes a deep breath. Sighs.. Sorry for the rant, it's been a long emotional day and I have the flu.
I agree. I don't even care if people hate homosexuality as long as they keep their business to themselves.
