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Hypnosis

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Simple Thoughts, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Simple Thoughts

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    Hello all.

    We've engaged in spiritual and religious talks...even ghosts.

    Let's turn our skeptical eye towards something different today. Hypnosis.

    Who among us believes the mind can be meddled with, and even given trigger commands?

    Personally, I'm at a point of 'mixed-feelings' I'm not sure...I think I'll have to explore further to find out what I make of it. On the bright side I feel surprisingly relaxed ^^
     
  2. Nick07

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    Hmm. I tried it once, fur fun. I was all "haha, this is such a nonsense" inside, until I realized that I couldn't speak...
     
  3. Simple Thoughts

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    Haha I was exploring the notion.

    I'm not sure what to make of it. I haven't the faintest idea if it worked or not. I'm inclined to think it did. I really don't know how to tell...well I do but

    I think the offered trigger word is best left to someone I'd be willing to let have it xD
     
  4. Foxface

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    absolutely...but not in the manner of a stage act in which a person has you clucking like a chicken.

    I am only personally trained in some sub hypnotic suggestion and it can do wonders. I have seen hypnosis however used to help a person with pretty severe OCD. It didn't cure it by any means but it helped quite a bit

    It's a good way to get into the subconscious
     
  5. Skov

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    Hypnosis is a very real (and very misunderstood) thing. Hypnotherapy can really help out with issues in your life. Just going into a hypnotic state can be a very relaxing and refreshing experience.
     
  6. KWDBM

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    I dunno about the type of hypnosis common at the local fair.... A woman took off her sock and played harmonica with it... I'm not so sure I believe that's for real.

    But the more subtle type of hypnosis, sure.
     
  7. Chip

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    The hypnosis stage shows are simply BS. They use a combination of praise, shame, and setting a social contract to get people to do stupid stuff.

    They'll invite 10 or 20 people up on stage, and then ask them to do something easy. The ones who don't comply are immediately cleared off the stage, and the rest (the "suggestible" ones) are praised and told that only the most intelligent people are capable of being hypnotized, effectively shaming them into complying with what the guy says to do.

    Real hypnosis is completely different, and extremely well documented. Milton Erickson, MD was a psychiatrist and is considered the father of clinical hypnosis, and wrote/co-wrote numerous books on the practice. Like Foxface, I'm also certified in clinical Ericksonian hypnosis and have used it in a variety of clinical settings.

    There's also a variant of Erickson's work called NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) which is essentially a very watered down, mechanized form of the work. It, too, has value, but my problem with it is anybody with a pulse can be trained and certified in it, and there are a lot of really shoddy hypnosis "schools", so there are a lot of people using NLP that really have no business using it because they lack the underlying background.

    The actual effects of hypnotic work tend to diminish over time, but, particularly with Ericksonian work, the behavioral change that can come about through the work can be persistent and long-lasting.
     
  8. Simple Thoughts

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    I should point out that I wasn't speaking in reference to stage shows. I think just about anyone can determine with relative ease they are fake. I suppose that some people do buy into that, but it's too whimsical for me to assume any truth behind it.

    I find the topic fascinating to say the least. it's an interesting place to explore. Then again most things involving the human mind tend to be rather intriguing. Afterall us humans are a rather interesting bunch when we elect to be.

    @Chip and FoxFace: So you're both certified in this field? I'd love to hear more about it. Feel free to share as much as you're willing to. I'd love to be enlightened on the subject. Thanks to my general distrust of all things I find myself doubtful, but strangely open to the idea as well.
     
  9. Chip

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    So what, specifically, do you want to know?
     
  10. happydavid

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    No never get involved in something that puts you to the will of someone else. Don't trust anyone
     
  11. Simple Thoughts

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    You know, I have no idea.

    It's mostly just an interesting subject.

    I guess I'd like to know what can be done with it? How far a person can be guided? What kind of tangible effects can it have? Mainly just a few little things of interest.
     
  12. setnyx

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    i believe hypnosis works on some people. i've known people helped by it to stop smoking but they started up again a few months later. to be fair though they didn't go for the follow up sessions they were told to.
     
  13. Hexagon

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    I believe in hypnosis, though as Foxface said, not in the way it is popularly portrayed. I think people have considerably more control over whether they allow themselves to be hypnotised than people think, and all that.

    Personally, I feel incredibly uncomfortable with the idea of someone doing it to me. I don't think I'd ever let it happen.
     
  14. Chip

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    Erickson was masterful. The cases he treated, and the stories his students tell of watching him working with patients stretch the imagination of what's possible.

    One of the most dramatic cases was Erickson's own son. At one time, they lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere. Erickson's son had an accident involving a tractor and tore his arm severaly, severing an artery. It was over an hour's drive to the hospital, and putting a tourniquet on the arm for that long would likely cause the loss of the arm, and not restricting the artery would cause him to bleed to death. Erickson, using hypnosis, was able to stop the bleeding enough to get him to the hospital without a tourniquet.

    In more ordinary circumstances, hypnosis is often effective in resolving PTSD and anxiety, and can be effective with weight loss and to help stop smoking. There are a number of cases on record where people who were legally blind without glasses were able, after several months' treatment, to see close to normally without glasses.

    More recently, Carl Simonton, MD did a lot of work in the 1980s with guided imagery (a close cousin of clinical hypnosis) in the treatment of cancer patients. His work, which has been widely replicated by others, showed that hypnosis is often more effective than anti-nausea drugs in eliminating nausea caused by chemotherapy, dramatically increases immune response, and in a number of cases, has, by itself caused tumor regression.

    What's interesting is how little we really know about how the unconscious mind works, and how much control it appears to have over things we don't think of as in our control... such as blood pressure, immune response, tumor regression, and so forth.

    There's some experimental work going on looking at using hypnosis to enhance muscle growth, and there are even a handful of (not-so-rigorous, but still interesting) studies indicating that hypnosis might be effective with things like erectile dysfunction, breast enlargement, and so forth. When you look at Simonton's work with enhancing white blood cell count, enhancing growth of other cells and tissues doesn't seem so farfetched.

    Of course... any of this, for it to work well, requires a high degree of skill, empathy, and ability to carefully read what's going on with the client, so really good hypnosis technique is something that takes a long time to develop and a lot of practice. There seem to be a lot of people that practice the simplified and non-Ericksonian forms of hypnosis, but not many that are real masters of the art. That, in turn, makes it more difficult to study in a structured and properly scientifically rigorous way because of the high level of dependency on the skill of the practitioner doing the work.
     
  15. monotone

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    Is this something I could bring up with my psychiatrist?
     
  16. Chip

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    Psychiatrists are, generally speaking, not trained in hypnosis unless they've gone and gotten the training as a specialty postgraduate training. You're more likely to find a clinical psychologist or social worker with training in hypnosis.

    Look for someone with either an MSW or masters or doctorate in psychology, and ask specifically if their training is in Ericksonian hypnosis. (there's Ericksonian, NLP, and general/classic hypnosis. Ericksonian, when done correctly, has the best track record. The most dedicated hypnotherapists will be members of ASCH, the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis.

    Anybody with a pulse can get an NLP or hypnosis certification because there are a lot of bogus or substandard schools out there who have no prerequisites and don't teach the clinical psychological background necessary to properly use hypnosis. So while the psychology degree neither guarantees competence nor is required for a hypnotherapist to be competent, generally speaking, someone who is also a licensed therapist is more likely to have the proper training and actually know what s/he is doing.
     
  17. monotone

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    I mean, I could ask him to refer me to someone who can do this.

    Also, I'm not in America.
     
  18. Ettina

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    My first year psych prof tried to hypnotize the entire class as a demonstration, telling us to put our hands on the table and then imagine our hand raising without our control. I felt my hand move, but it didn't actually move. Apparently about 3 people in our class actually moved their hands.

    He told us hypnotizability varies, and the dramatic effects of hyponosis can only be seen in a small subset of people. Apparently hypnotizable people tend to be relatively intelligent, trusting, creative and suggestible.
     
  19. Simple Thoughts

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    Wow that story about the Erickson's son is pretty astounding...0.o
    Almost mind-boggling even.

    So hypnosis performed properly can have a range of various effects physically on a person? That's pretty awesome. Maybe I should find someone to hypnotise away my smoking? lol

    It sounds like a rather fascinating field to explore. That's for sure.
     
  20. Chip

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    That's totally correct when we're talking about classical hypnosis, and one of the reasons is that in classical hypnosis, the induction process is similar for everyone... which is why you could do a large class at one time.

    Ericksonian, on the other hand, tends to have a very high success rate; there are few people who won't respond to Ericksonian hypnosis because the inductions are a lot more subtle and varied, and the skilled Ericsonian therapist understands how to work with resistant clients (there are actually seminars specifically on this.) Some people are definitely easier than others, but done properly, the work can be effective on probably 90% of the population. Erickson himself was close to 100%.