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How do people appreciate masculinity?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by 7eye, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. 7eye

    7eye Guest

    For some reason, I feel like that straight guys must be hiding in the closet if they say or do things that look like they appreciate masculinity even if they are not that homophobic; this could be coming from me having a neutral to slightly negative viewpoint of masculinity; in fact, I take my sex and gender for granted, or even envy the opposite gender for what we men don't have. In fact, one of the reasons why I think masculinity is adored in our society is due to our patriarchal world, which causes us to worship the essence of it.

    I'm just wondering if you have any other ideas, and if patriarchy is really to blame for this.
     
  2. An Gentleman

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    I'm sorry, but you're probably not living in a patriarchy.
    The word has been adopted by the radfems (radical feminists) and SJWs (social justice warriors) to make an argument. Since many people want de facto equality, western feminists talk about inequalities against women brought on by patriarchy. I think they are trying to invoke a feeling of injustice in the listener.

    An actual patriarchy would have rules that actually discriminate against women.
    For example:
    The oft cited wage gap*: That's not "patriarchy", that's certain jobs being valued above others. Instead, we should "ungender" jobs. That ought to even things up.
    Women being banned from driving cars: Now, that's inequality!

    I have the opposite view. I have a neutral to positive viewpoint of masculinity. There are good and bad traits that are associated with feminine and masculine. There are also traits that are not associated with a gender at all! You do not have to be the most masculine guy in the world. For some hobbies, you may need to prepare for some ridicule, but you should be able to stand up for yourself, right? I hope that nobody would make fun of you, but sometimes people can be jackasses.Confidence is important in making bullies back down. Remember that.

    *I'm citing first-world wages- second and third world countries probably do have a gendered wage gap. This is conjecture, but I hope I don't have to throw statistics around just to state my stance. I'll do it if I have to, but...
     
    #2 An Gentleman, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  3. Techno Kid

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    Well it seems like you are talking about two things here:

    1. Do straight guys feel they have to hide in the closet if they say or do things that look like they appreciate masculinity even if they are not that homophobic?
    2. Do we as a society adore masculinity because of the patriarchy?

    So I'm not sure how to answer as you seem to be defending masculinity at the same time as thinking there is a huge problem with it.
     
  4. Saint Otaku

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    I think patriarchy is too broad a term -- and an emotionally loaded one at that -- to describe our society's valuing of masculinity and devaluing of femininity. Basically, there are two patriarchies: the old definition, which entails a system which is inherently intended to be headed by men; and the radfem definition, which entails a system that is oppressive to women. Obviously, countries such as the USA are no longer patriarchal, as women have the full political power men do -- but I also don't like to refer to places such as America as the radfem patriarchy as it ignores specific causes of oppression, ignores like oppression between different oppressed groups, and, by its history, implies masculinity as overwhelmingly negative and oppressive by its nature.

    So anyhow, you -- as stated by Techno Kid -- seem contradictory in your assertions. You begin by saying people don't voice adoration of masculine traits, then you say patriarchy is responsible for the practical worship of masculinity. I am confused.

    Also, your assertion that men don't like to say positive things about masculinity because they are closeted seems extremely bold a claim to make...
     
  5. Jinkies

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    I don't think the main problem is a patriarchy, while I don't doubt for a second that it does exist.

    I think a lot of it stems from religion, especially Semitic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). The books that are the backbone of these religions lay down the basic ideology behind it all. And through several thousand years, they've spread throughout the world and ingrained themselves into civilization and therefore whatever society rules said civilizations.

    Aside from that, it could be argued that masculinity is better because men are biologically stronger, and we live in a world where strength = good. How we get there beats the hell out of me.