Anyone else thinks grades are a set back?

Nope. Grades act as a reward system. Do well and understand the material? You get a good grade. Don't do well or understand the material? You get a poor grade.

 

That's partially true but some people play the game more than understanding the material.

I had an honors student today complain to me that she got half of a point that I miscounted on her test out of 50. That's the difference between a 97 and 96% and she copped such an attitude with me today.

It's the kids who struggle for a B and are overjoyed at an 87 on a test.

Grades aren't supposed to be a reward system, although they certainly serve motivation, but they are more of a way to judge learning in a quantitative way.

 

Depends what the grade was for.

Take my university assignments. I know what the questions I have to answer are and I know I don't need to read all the material to answer them.

If I want to spend a few hours reading the hell out of 1 chapter of my book in order to get a good grade on my assignment, I can and will.

I understand the material I read about sure, but the other 5 or six chapters per assignment...do I understand those? I didn't even READ them!

Good grades don't necessarily mean good understanding of the subject matter, just good understanding of the question.

 

I think it's really hard to come up with a good system for determining how well a student knows the material, and I don't have an ideal method in mind.

However I also think the grade point scale is the easiest, most cop-out method of deciding whether a student has done well or not. It's simple, it's straightforward, and in a way no one can complain that it is "unfair" but I also think there are much more effective teaching and grading methods out there if we would only take the time to look into them, we could make the education system much more effective and rewarding.

Every grading system has pros and cons. I think the GPA method is simple, but probably ineffective on the whole.

 

I can say that on some courses it's more how you understand the structure of the test or material. Especially with the No Child Left Behind Act, many school districts spend so much time just teaching to the test. Also, the Common Core curriculum in public schools is a joke. I am generally considered an intelligent, college-educated person and I sometimes can't comprehend the crap they're teaching.

In college, many courses simply relied on how well I could memorize some stuff and regurgitate it in a different manner; the STEM courses were different, though.

Also, I've gotten As simply for playing the system, not for understanding the actual material.

 

Holy god don't get me started on standardized testing...

 

I did a little experiment where I didn't do any homework in science for a month. Sure, I got in trouble, but my test grades were still in the 90's. We are judged by society based off of a number which really doesn't reflect our intelligence. It's wrong and I refuse to follow it.

 

I think a measure of true understanding is when the material you studied stays with you forever. So getting a high grade doesn't always equate to true understanding. I am guilty of this. Sometimes I study for exams and can score well, but then forget all the material within a few days.

For general chemistry, which I took 2 years ago, I did well and still remember concepts. I guess retention depends on other factors too, such as how well the instructor teaches, student's interest in the subject, study methods, etc.

Being a devil's advocate here... I don't think grade grubbers should be conflated with those who don't understand the material. I'm pretty sure there are overachievers who want the right grade, yet know their stuff down to the T. However, I understand your frustration and would also be annoyed with that student. I would be complacent with the 96.

I would only bring up errors where my expected grade for an exam clearly didn't match the grade received. I've done this before, and that made a difference between an 80 and 95 in my clinical exam. Exams were 20% of the grade, so I had to made sure to get the right grade...

 

*smile* I think if Kasey and I met at a bar, we'd have some things to talk about.

Inherently, grades are as meaningful as the person assigning them makes them. Some people are ultra-conscientious about making certain that you can't earn a 90% on an exam without knowing the material darned well, and that you can't pass unless you have at least passing knowledge of the material. Some are like oh, you showed up? Well that's worth a pass! As far as I'm concerned, at least at the college level, the latter are ripping you off...because the *only* think you are paying for in college is the evaluation by the professor. So if they do a crap job with their assessment, they are treating their job (and you) shoddily.

But to the OP, I think your orientation to grades is a bit off if you think you need a 4.0 to be successful in life. Here's healthy advice that almost nobody has ever followed: forget about the grades, and work at learning the material...presumably, that's what you're in the class for. Learn it as well and as deeply as you'd like...if by partway through the course, you feel your knowledge level is higher than your grade, talk to the one assigning the grades, and try to understand why. If they're the sort who gives grades for a song, you probably just paid for your increase. If they are responsible and serious about assessment, then accept the fact that you might not understand the material as well as you think you do (it does happen).

 

It really depends on the person.
Do they work better under pressure? Do they work well with text and concepts?
Do they remember with a lot of practice? If so, then schoolwork is the ideal system for them.
Still, even good grades aren't necessarily going to help someone succeed. You also have to be well-rounded.

My grades have mostly recovered. I only have 1 B+. I'm satisfied with those A- grades because those don't negatively affect my GPA, so it's all cool. I'll try my best to improve, though. The most important thing is a healthy attitude about school. Otherwise, you'd probably crack under the pressure. Overall, while I think the system could use improvements, it's not that bad.

 

By no means am I ever mad a student questions me. I make mistakes and she was entitled to her grade. Even that small difference.

But the mentality that grades are everything changed her demeanor to defensive and rude as if I intentionally tried to mess with her grades. It is that elitist attitude that are what trivializes grades in place of them being a measurement of understanding.

 

I'd do the same, especially in a college class where half a point can mean plenty. Though, I'd be less inclined to do it if I was doing well, over all.

This is honestly only true in lower level courses. In higher level courses, if you don't read the material, you're going to have a hell of a time understanding and answering the question, especially when you're supposed to show your work or write out a short answer explaining your reasoning.

I'm aware of the teaching to the test thing that schools do. It tends to screw students over for later grades. Luckily, I didn't have that issue, a perk of being homeschooled, I suppose.

It depends on the course. Doing that in math or sciences that require the constant manipulation of formulas? The only way you're going to get it is to do the homework.

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Overall, grades are important, especially if you're wanting to get into some form of specialized program in college.

 

That I can agree with. She seriously has no class for being that defensive. Whenever someone rudely treats a teacher, I think of this: The Real Number Of Hours Teachers Work In One Eye-Opening Graphic

 

Hmm... Arrive at 6:45 am, teach from 7:25 to 2:25. Have an hour help session then a parent arrive at 330. Then plan lessons for an hour. Then go home. Eat, then spend another hour and a half to plan lessons and if you're not too tired then grade a portion of 100 quizzes.

Oh wait, I didn't mean to tell everyone what I did today.

That image is totally true. I've worked a 10 hour day each day this week in the building plus at least 2 more at home.

Forget the weekend.

The point being students seem to forget that teachers are real people too and get burnt out. I know I took a teachers job for granted when I was in high school.

I give open response quizzes and tests... In chemistry. That is so incredibly time consuming to correct but it gives the students a chance to earn partial credit as well as for me to see whether they are understanding or just guessing at multiple choice.

So I'd like to think my traditional summative assessments in addition to projects and presentations are also valid assessments of learning and that those numbers in my grade book aren't just going through the motions.

 

depends on how you look at it, all it simply is a rewards system and a way to make yourself feel a certain way contigient on your 'grade.' I view grades that way, and I will only see grades that way. I don't see grades as a way to measure the intelligence of someone. Reason for that is, I will go as far as considering a person a intelligent if they actually try to make sense of what they are given and try to retain that for future needs. I will NOT and I do NOT consider a person intelligent if they blindly memorize facts and a way to do something only to dispose of that information later. If that doesn't make sense, let me simplify:
Anyone can go home and study as much as they want to and get a good 'grade.'
Anyone can go home and study and get a bad 'grade.'
It's also an apparent student equity issue:
Student without learning disability can go home and study an amount and get a good 'grade.'
Student with learning disability can go home and study the same amount and get a good 'grade.'

 

I feel like for me, and many other students at my school, grades get in the way of true learning. I go to a very very competitive school, where many students (including myself sometimes) value getting a good grade over actually understanding or enjoying the material. I think the reason for this is that we have this whole conception that these grades will impact every job and every opportunity we ever get, for the rest of our lives. If we don't get good grades (which at my school is an A), we won't get into good colleges, then we won't get good jobs, then we will have failed as people.

 

This was EXACTLY what I meant. Glad someone had the same opinion as I do and voiced it very clearly :lol:

 

Keep this conversation going. I want to continue it tomorrow but I need to get to bed to get up for school.

---------- Post added 27th Mar 2014 at 11:25 PM ----------

Uh I said that like the first post in. I think.