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Individualism and Abortion/Same-sex marriage

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Techno Kid, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Techno Kid

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    I find it strange that some conservatives who say the are for the freedom of the individual are also against things like Abortion/Same-sex marriage. Both of these things involve an individual's free choice in things that don't actually hurt anyone.

    Also add drug use to this.
     
    #1 Techno Kid, Apr 25, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  2. JStevens96

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    Agreed, although they believe abortion hurts the fetus. Politicians such as Rand Paul claim to support small government yet want to use the government to prevent us from having such rights. Hypocrites.
     
  3. Mike92

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    I wouldn't consider myself a true conservative (more of a moderate one), but there is a pretty big difference between being in favor of two consenting adults engaging in a relationship, and being against a woman taking a potential life. For me, it really isn't about "freedom of the individual" on the topic of abortion; rather, it is about protecting a fetus that will be a life.
     
  4. valerie247

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    "will be a life" is not a life. Birth control sheds an embryo that has the potential for life. Is that murder? The semen has fertilized the egg, the birth control just won't let it find a home in the uterus. It's the same thing. I rarely hear anyone outside of the Catholic church call that murder though. If life begins at conception, then birth control is most certainly murder.

    ---------- Post added 25th Apr 2014 at 01:26 PM ----------

    OP, I agree. I think libertarians are the only true conservatives. They want the government out of everything, not just financial matters.
     
  5. Pret Allez

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    Same-sex marriage is an extremely uncomplicated issue, and conservative opposition to it demonstrates their lack of real commitment to freedom of association. There is nothing personal liberty focused about either conservatism or liberalism. Liberals and conservatives are both essentially statists who believe in slightly different loci of power. Liberals distrust big business (for good reasons) and want to strengthen regulatory institutions, shifting the locus of power to the state so that the state rules individuals. They also tend to support some nice personal freedoms on the side according to their taste.

    Conservatives distrust the state (for good reasons) and want to strengthen market compeition (except not at all in a Misean way, so you pretty much have to ignore whatever they say about the "free market.") This results in a shift in the locus of power to big corporations that rule us in lieu of the state. They also support a different set of personal freedoms on the side according to their taste.

    Nevertheless, conservatives and liberals both have distrust of individuals and blind faith in large organizations at the front of their minds, despite there being ample historical evidence to show the bankruptcy of their approaches to solving social problems.
     
  6. Mike92

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    Uh, thanks for clearing that up for me.

    And as I've said before, abortion should be legal, but it doesn't mean I'm for it.
     
  7. valerie247

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    That's the point. Pro-choice doesn't say anything about being for it or against it in your personal matters. (Similar to the argument "Don't like gay marriage, don't marry your same sex. Problem solved.") It just means you aren't willing to strip someone of their bodily autonomy. That's why it's comparable to same sex marriage. Taking a woman's right to bodily autonomy and taking a couples right to marriage are both stipping people of the rights that other people inherently have (men and straight couples, respectively).

    The only reason I clarified the "life" comment is because it seemed as though you were implying than the fetus should have more rights that the woman. The fetus is not a life yet, as you said yourself, and therefore does not have the rights of a living human being. Sorry if I misunderstood your statement.
     
    #7 valerie247, Apr 25, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014