I will confess I am keen on politics and as a Scotsman I have quite a big decision to make come September about whether I think Scotland should be part of the quickly disappearing British empire. Anywho, as the local elections take place today and European Elections as well, it looks like UKIP (A nasty party) are going to perhaps not have major control, but make huge inroads into main streem politics. Which is concerning. Because they are racist (they defend it well, but the undertones are there), they are homophobic , the party is full of middle aged, bald xenophobes and lunatics and old buffers who think the the world should remain in the 70s - which are the worst sort of people, you can tell them a mile off, the sort of people you WOULDNT come out to dad - they are run by a man so far to the right he's fallen off the ledge who naïve people think speaks for them about immigrants taking low paid jobs off them (which is utter nonsense, they take the jobs we don't even want) but who really is as posh as Cameron. The worst thing is his policies are non existent, he has one main policy drive us out of Europe - for reasons I still cant quite understand despite the it having provided him a tidy living for the past few years. Europe in my reckoning is worth it, but if he's going to drive us out, then what's the point when... Up here in Bonny Scotland we hate UKIP, we have the SNP who are pretty much the equivalent only...nicer and who have ensured Scotland is ranked as one of the top places...if not the top to be gay by country. I think the UK is highest, but pushed by SNP/Scottish government. So we don't need a posh Englishman - and Scots hate posh English folk. If we want to be out of Europe the SNP will do it for us anyway - they want to stay in but it might take a while to negotiate this. The decision; live in a country where there are risks of going independent but where all people have equality (important for me) or risk being part of a nation run by man who will not do anything for the people of Scotland, and infact probably make the whole of Britain worse off... I know there are a few Scots on here, any opinions Brits...or otherwise.
if it takes britain to take a step back into the dark ages for ordinary britons to realise how lucky they are to be in a united kingdom and european union, then so be it. there was an illiberal regime here for 47 years, after which this country became one of the most liberal in the world with a fantastic written constitution. i guess things have to get worse in order for them to get better. if this ukip becomes of anything big, save yourselves!
Well here's a pic of the average UKIP voters...SCARY tweed alert. What would a Ukip Britain look like? | Politics | The Guardian Oh and the irony is the majority comes from Lib Dems (the liberal party! and the posh Conservatives who's supporters are annoyed at their liberalism - gay marriage) That's the reality. Lib Dem and Conservative voters are also normally middle class +
The Scots hate UKIP? That's interesting, because 7 out of 10 Scots apparently back UKIP's stance on immigration. http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/seven-out-of-ten-scots-back-ukip-policy-on-immigration.24278719 Your part about 'posh English folk' is a really concerning attitude that seems oddly prevalent in the Celtic nations. I would also say that Scotland is arguably the most socially conservative part of the British mainland - it certainly ain't a patch on the south of England, and remember, same-sex marriage was legalised in England & Wales before it was in Scotland. You're worrying for no reason though - people are largely voting UKIP because they are 'protesting' against the three main political parties - which is the reason why the SNP are polling so highly in Scotland. UKIP will never get into power - only two parties have any realistic chance of being in government, and that's the Tories and Labour.
Yeah still wont vote for them though - he got lynched in upmarket Edinburgh last time he came up here. Nobody truly likes immigration, I to an extent don't like it, but we're told the figures we want to hear & not the ones we don't. And we hear the figures we want to. "You'll loose your job, etc etc" but overall unemployment is decreasingly rapidly. Hardly a problem
I don't want Scotland to leave the Union and I think there are huge risks and uncertainties in going down that route. I'm not keen on the make up of the UK government either, but for Scotland (and the rest of the UK actually) there are greater things to consider than the political arguments being waged by the in/out campaigns.
At least Scotland has some form of self-determination, which we in the English regions lack entirely. All decisions for us in Yorkshire are made directly from out-of-touch politicians in London - a lot of whom come from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - yeah, it's that ridiculous - Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs are making decisions for people in areas that do not concern them. A Scottish Labour politician can decide whether or not we in Leeds should get funding for a new transport system - even though they have no business doing so. The UK's political system needs a radical overhaul - and a great start would be to follow a route of federalisation. I don't think breaking countries into smaller units will achieve anything at all - unless we want to return to the days when we had city states and tiny, individual kingdoms like Wessex and Northumbria. I think independence is an incredibly risky endeavor that is not worth pursuing - and the SNP are basing their calls for independence on 'maybe Scotland can keep the pound' and 'maybe Scotland can stay in the EU'.. even though neither will happen.. ---------- Post added 23rd May 2014 at 12:43 AM ---------- But it isn't just Britain - it's all of Europe. The far-right Dutch Freedom Party is similarly prolific - especially its leader, Geert Wilders, who openly condemns Islam. Likewise, the Front National party in France is polling at around 24%, and they call for an immediate withdrawal from the Euro and an EU referendum.
I gather it is not a matter of keeping the pound, we can pretty come and take it. It would appear we might end up out of Europe whatever happens with any party except Labour. So that's not really a problem I don't think. I'm fairly certain - haven't checked the poles the UK would vote out of Europe? SNP is so popular mainly because they represent the Scottish people, the Conservatives have no right to be controlling Scotland...and putting in less than we output. Yorkshire shouldn't be told what to do by Scots. And likewise. If Labour had a decent set of politicians they might do better in Scotland but Alex Salmon has a huge presence and personality that makes Labour leaders past and present (Joanne Lamont) look pathetic. Even in live TV debates, it's their negativism that ruins Unionist arguments - and the fact their answers are drivel; they never answer anything and read off a script, something the SNP doesn't. It also looks bad that none of the UK politicians will come and debate with Salmon or his deputy (and successor soonish) Nichola Sturgeon. It would be humiliating, much like UKIP and Lib Dems a few weeks ago. Offering positivity in a form works, and UKIP & SNP have done well on it. I found this on UKIP RE LGBT issues Comment: UKIP Its this sort of thing that worries me.
UKIP might do well at the euros and maybe some local elections, but chances of UKIP having a majority in the commons after next year's general election are a million to one. A single MP (Nigel Farage) would be a success for them. Also, I think many new UKIP voters have come from Labour as well as the Cons and LibDems. I'd think the LibDems are the least likely voters to defect to UKIP tbh. Also SNP are not at all similar to UKIP really, they're generally a centre left party with UKIP way way off to the right on social and economic policy. I'm not sure whether this thread is about European elections yesterday or Scottish independance vote later this year. On the euro elections it disappoints me to see UKIP's success and also the poor performance of the LibDems who need a new leader asap. On Scottish independence I'm a very pro union Englishman, for many reasons but not unimportantly that Scotland leaving the union would condemn the rest of the UK to suffer a far higher proportion of Tory MPs. Alex Salmond I often disagree with but he's competent and likeable, to an extent. Nichola Sturgeon is gross. Just some of my, quite random, thoughts. Tired but enjoying Dimbleby on election night as always :icon_mrgr
Scotland can continue to use the pound, but that doesn't mean they can form a currency union with the rest of the UK - and it would be at the disadvantage to the rest of the UK in any case - and this is part of the problem - the SNP seem insistent on having their cake and eating it too - even if it means the rest of the UK suffers. It just doesn't work like that. With Europe - Scotland would be out of the EU if they voted for independence because they would have to reapply for EU membership like any other member state looking to join - yet they seem to think an independent Scotland would actually inherit EU membership, even though the rest of the UK would be the current UK successor state, and would inherit the UK's EU membership. It's just pie in the sky fantasies on their part, and it's bloody ridiculous - especially when EU officials have stated over and over that Scotland would have to reapply to be part of the UK (and would be obliged to use the Euro eventually anyway - so their ideas of retaining the pound as their currency seem even sillier). Oh, and they also want to keep the monarchy - so remaining part of the Commonwealth of Nations - a relic of the British empire (which Scotland was not part of, btw - it entered a voluntary union with England and benefited hugely from the British Empire, especially Glasgow with its shipbuilding). It's as if they want Independence in name only! Alex Salmond is great at rhetoric, and is a decent personality figure for Scotland, but unfortunately lacks substance - being a good debater does not equate to actually knowing what you're talking about - and I think we know that well enough with hte politicians in this country. The SNP's policies and 'visions' for an independent Scotland are pretty wafer thin - which was made evident by their 'white paper'. It's similar to how UKIP have done well - they utter rhetoric that the gullible masses enjoy and relate to - but fall short on actual facts. People are only interested in what they want to hear - and with UKIP that's 'immigrants are bad, foreigners are bad, EU is bad'. Quite frankly, people are stupid. Saying that the Conservatives have no right to 'control' Scotland doesn't make sense either - they are a British party so have the right to stand in elections anywhere in the UK. By negativity, I presume you are referring to the main parties harping on about the negatives of an independent Scotland, while overlooking the positives of Scotland remaining - and I would actually agree - but people pointing out that Scotland just might be at a disadvantage being outside the UK for more reasons than one is hardly negativism - it's realism. Yeah - I'm watching that right now as well - can't sleep, which explains why I have already made four posts at this ungodly hour of the night. :rolleyes:
