J-Lo's "Booty" - feminism and mysogyny?

Just a thought here. How about women do what they want without feeling obligated to comply with these hypocritical feminist ideas?

 

I think people are being really ridiculous. I'm a feminist and I disagree with most of the things people are saying about the video. Obviously, like you said, they're the ones who chose to use their bodies in that way. They should be able to do what they want and flaunt their bodies with out criticism from others.

 

OK... this is going to be an unpopular answer I think. Yes, women have a right to dress however they want. I dress however I want. But when I dress sexy, I know some men and hopefully some women are turned on. It's not just women, when a man is shirtless, six pack abs, or wearing a tight tank top and skinny jeans, he is gonna be objectified too. When women dress sexy, they have EXPECT to be objectified. Now if someone is harrasing you and making continual unwanted advancements because of the way you dress, that is very wrong. But when you dress sexy, you know you are turning people on; it's just human nature. And to expect people NOT to be affected by how you dress is just dumb; there will be an effect.

---------- Post added 21st Sep 2014 at 06:53 AM ----------

Sidenote: JLO should dress however she wants and not get heat for it.
And I am one of those people NOT too fond of JLO's music but VERY fond of her "booty".

 

This.

 

I still like Anaconda better

 

Well, I'm not a feminist anymore, I consider myself an equalist now but I'll say from my personal perspective.. I don't personally care what Jennifer Lopez does with her Booty! I'm not a fan of hers I'll say that much but she's got every right to do whatever she wants with her Booty as far as I'm concerned!

 

As an egalitarian (not a feminist) , I don't care what they do with their bodies. Being scantily clad doesn't inherently make you "harmful towards women"- this is exactly the kind of "slut shaming "that feminists claim to be against, isn't it?(IMO, "slut shaming" sounds very crass and should have a better name.) Sexy people will be admired. That's not a bad thing; finding someone attractive isn't sexual harassment .
The rape culture argument was debunked by RAINN ages ago.

Permutation of Ninjas has links to more sources.

 

I don't really appreciate your hostility to feminism, any of you. I would also appreciate some enlightenment on where this equalist movement is.

Anyway, to answer the question as one of these evil, stupid, hypocritical feminists, I would answer that people should be able to dress and perform however they want to. If their performance happens to sexually excite people and that excitement can be reasonably predicted beforehand, there's no use criticizing that as objectification. I don't care about media criticism. It's stupid.

All I care about is reducing actually instances of harassment and violence.

 

I haven't seen that particular video, but I've seen plenty that sound like it. On one hand you could say that they are perpetuating misogyny by objectifying women, or on the other hand you could say that them expressing their female sexuality is what third wave feminism is all about. I mean aren't women not supposed to be ashamed of their bodies anymore? Personally I don't really have a strong opinion either way, but I know that tons of female people watch those videos, so it's not like it's s show made only to turn on straight men.

Edit: I'm also a bit curious Pret, I've never heard of that. Feminism is about equality at it's core, but I think a lot of people seem to let the TERFs and whatnot influence what they think feminism is.

 

^"Feminist" refers to women. You can't blame people for wanting to find a gender-neutral term that describes support for the equality of the genders.

That said, as a "freedomist" (not a term), I believe women should have the feminist-sanctioned freedom to attract sexual attention and make videos like J-Lo did. But admittedly there is a "tricky line" in between wanting women to be self-respecting and not give into objectification and allowing them the freedom to twerk it in front of the camera for the enjoyment of men.

 

As a gender egalitarian myself, I can say that if we're both for gender equality, then we're just for gender equality under different labels. And while you yourself may be a reasonable feminist, third-wave feminism (in the West) focuses on petty issues like "cat-calling" and "men spreading their legs on the subway/bus". The first-wave feminists (the suffragettes) made leaps and bounds in gender equality. I dislike modern feminists' methods and don't want to associate myself with them.

If you want to reduce harassment and violence, then that's definitely admirable. How do you plan to do that, though? (I'm curious.)

 

That's an issue?

 

It is not. It is not an issue. The statement was kind of sarcastic, though, so I'll use an actual, serious example this time. For example, feminists argue that gender roles are harmful to women and men, and that most of the issues caused by them are caused by the patriarchy.
While pushing people into gender roles is indeed bad, there is discrimination against men as well as women. Case in point: This person has linked to some sources about these issues. This article is also pretty good. After all, mens' rights and womens' rights are not mutually exclusive, and we can fight for both.

 

These questions are better addressed to me on my wall, as they are not related to the thread.

The thread is about what kind of responses are appropriate for sexually provocative media, provided that those providing the responses have an interest in gender equality.

 

I have wondered what has happened to music videos these days and why there can't be a part of a storyline, watching music shows these days is like watching light porn.. I guess that is another topic for another day though.. I think women should be able to dress how they want, but I do agree that when men or women dress sexy, they do need to expect that people are gonna look their way.. Why would you dress up if you didn't want people to look your way and perhaps be turned on, especially if going out to a bar or a club and your single.

 

Sure, I'll go back on track. It would be contradictory to say that we should accept promiscuous women while saying that promiscuous women are objectifying women. Should there be a more moderate solution? I can't say. Does it really matter in the long run? Probably not.

 

This whole "objectification" discourse is a holdover from second wave feminism, which, frankly, was worse than the Exxon Valdez oilspill.

The more we can shut down this stupid discourse, the better. The arguments in favor of this discourse are incoherent, and they focus more on nebulous concepts of what objectification "conditions men to think of women" and so on than actual human rights violations.

We see the same kind of discourse present in criticisms of porn, which seem to be, broadly speaking, "porn is bad because it causes its viewers to see the objects of their sexual desire as less human." However, there is an absolutely huge number of porn viewers out there, and many of them are already in relationships with people as we speak. And they are able to view their partners as fully human. The porn isn't what matters, it's how the participants in those relationships are actually treating one another. (In fact, the stupidity of this argument is based on the same supposition as the thesis that "computer games lead to violence," that people cannot dissociate fantasy from the real.)

 

The last part about caring about "reducing actual instances of harassment and violence." that is kinda what I was getting at. That is the important thing. Neither men or women should be harrassed or hurt. It doesn't matter how they dress. But certain dress (or lack of dress) will turn people on. The thing is to be an adult and don't turn people who dress provocatively and turn you on into victims. No one should be victimised. And JLO clearly is no victim.

 

Folks should be able to express themselves, however they want. It is just unfortunate that beauty + erotica = profit. Sex sells, as the old saying goes. Those who go along with that, are just taking advantage of something they were dealt. Is it fair? No, it isn't, but addressing the women who do this isn't the right direction; it would be at the reasoning behind why these women engage in such endeavors.

At the same time, if I wear a swastika on a t-shirt*, because I am expressing what I believe, there is no reasonable reason as to why, I should be excused from the consequences/reactions/responses of my wearing said shirt. Same with wearing a "Fuck God" t-shirt into a church, or making a troll account on a Lil' Wayne forum, just to rile people up with "Tupac is better!". You have to have common sense, when it comes to the reality of life.

*I don't wear a pro-Nazi t-shirt, by the way. It was just a quick example. Making Nazi jokes, is out of Mein Kampfort zone.

As for the song itself. I'm not too sold on it. I want music to be like an ocean, deep, and not a puddle, shallow. Mm, that's a good conclusion.