1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Disproving the "tolerant both homophobia and gay people" word game

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by gibson234, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. gibson234

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    UK,Wales
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Let D be the set of all traits that are unacceptable to discriminate against.

    H - is the trait of active homophobia
    G - is the trait of homosexuality

    Let say H and G exist in D.

    Then H would be allowed to discriminate against G (or else we are discriminating against H) meaning that G could not be in D. This is a contradiction as both G and H were described as both being in D.

    Essentially we have the contradiction of G ^ H = G ^ ¬G

    So the question of "Tolerant both H and G" is logically incoherent.

    The actually question is G V H or G V ¬G. Which is "Should we discriminate against gay people?". The answer is by any reputable moral basis "no".

    So next time a homophobe tries to play word games with discriminating against discrimination. Tell them that their position is logically incoherent. Which is about as false as something can get.
     
  2. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    кєηтυ¢ку
    Dear God, when did advanced Mathematics get involved?!

    LOL!
     
  3. Nychthemeron

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    The funny thing is that I just studied this in Geometery and I still had to read it four times before I finally understood what the hell was going on.

    But once I did, hey, cool— logic! I can always use more of that.
     
  4. gibson234

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    UK,Wales
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Lol, It's only simple set theory. :slight_smile:
     
  5. Nikky DoUrden

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mediterranean Sea
    Someone enjoyed his math class huh :wink:
     
  6. Blossom85

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New South Wales, Australia
    Wow, that is well and above my head, I was never a good maths student.
     
  7. Black Raven

    Black Raven Guest

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Gender:
    Male
    ....

    Error 404

    Does not compute

    ....

    Shutdown imminent

    -Bzzzzzzzz-
     
  8. PatrickUK

    Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    2,359
    Location:
    England
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Brain ache alert. Needs to rewind 22 years. :lol:
     
  9. Pie

    Pie Guest

    Yay! Using logic against homophobes!
     
  10. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    *Love* your approach, but your writing needs some revision to make it easier for readers to follow:
    (1) We use uppercase letters for sets, but for clarity, try to reserve lowercase letters for elements (i.e., use g and h, rather than G and H);
    (2) It doesn't make sense to say "H would be allowed to discriminate...", because you've defined H as a trait, and a trait does not discriminate...it's people *with* that trait that discriminate.
    (3) Always lead with the statement you are trying to prove, so the reader knows where you're going.
    (4) You conflate set theory and logic in a minor (but potentially confusing way). You define G and H as traits, but then apply logical connectives to them...but logical connectives apply to statements/propositions.

    I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek with my critique here. I really do love your approach.

    So let me suggest this revision:

    Of course, a homophobe could poke a small hole in this by saying that one can be homophobic, but not *discriminate* against homosexuals (i.e., they don't like them, and they'll speak against them, but they won't actually deny them their rights...kind of like what we have in the US these days between Democrats and Republicans). But that's a semantic issue of "what does it mean to be an active homophobe?" and probably not too hard to agree on.

    So seriously, kudos.
     
  11. gibson234

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    UK,Wales
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Yea your criticisms were true. I sort of wrote this down quickly. You produced it in a nicer format. :slight_smile:

    "homophobic, but not *discriminate* against homosexuals" When I said "active homophobe" I meant someone who discriminates against gay people. There does exist a large proportion of people who think that people should be allowed to discriminate against gay people because if you don't then you are being "intolerant".
     
  12. Linthras

    Linthras Guest

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Leeuwarden (FR), the Netherlands
    To Math-imparied people like me, there's no such thing as 'simple' set theory.
     
  13. Nychthemeron

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Tennessee, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
  14. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Yup, that's what I meant by a semantic argument you could pretty easily patch up.

    The best writing is always done over *multiple* revisions.
     
  15. Hexagon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Earth
    I think the problem here is that humans seem to have a predisposition towards illogicality.
     
  16. One Man Army

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2014
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    This is it.

    Sadly, we as humans tend to base our beliefs and opinions on emotion rather than logic. And there's the problem.