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Made myself look like an idiot. Tips on arguing better with anti-gays?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by MouseKeeper, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. MouseKeeper

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    I watched a video here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70I7Nag4Eu8

    And I wrote a comment:

    "Even if Homosexuality, Bisexuality and Asexuality were a choice, why the f*** does it matter who, if at all, a person has sex with in the confines of their own home where consent is given? No, seriously! Why the f*** does it matter?"

    The responder wrote:

    "First of all if the pair decide to adopt a child it wouldn't be beneficial to the child. A Child needs a mother figure and a father figure to be able to be raised properly. Second, It would concern the Male homosexuals. Want to know why? Because Homosexual males have the highest HIV incidence rate."

    From that point on, the anxiety I'm experiencing from withdrawal due to my insurance being rejected and losing my meds resulted in me being more rude than constructive, and that in turn resulted in the person against same sex marriage having the better arguments why it's a "choice" and why it should stay illegal, whereas I was just spouting profanity and terrible wording. I was hoping some fellow supporters were going to step in and help me out because of how hard it was to appear intelligent, but nope. Nobody came to assist me... at all. So, I removed the responses to the comment and disabled replies.

    Does anybody have any tips on arguing better with people who are against the LGBTQ community? Thanks a bunch.
     
    #1 MouseKeeper, Oct 21, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  2. Ticklish Fish

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    im just subscribing this thread because i want to learn arguments too~
     
  3. Mangaholic

    Mangaholic Guest

    Just a tip, perhaps try forming actual arguments rather than just swearing. Once someone sees you saying 'fuck' a lot, then they know that they can wind you up easily.

    However, arguing on the internet will get you nowhere. Personally, I think that both anti-gay and pro-gay people who like to argue/complain are fucking annoying.
     
  4. MintberryCrunch

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    Yeah, definitely avoid the swearing--bad argument tactic in the first place.

    Secondly, the rest of the quote is describing things that can be disproven with studies and facts. It might end up in a link war, but you can at least find links that show that children in same-sex couples do fine (plenty of studies that show that) and studies that discuss the HIV rate among homosexual males. If they want to make those claims, then should use hard evidence.

    It's important to be able to make these arguments, because that's the only way unjust laws are going to be defeated and attitudes are going to change. No, arguments on the internet are probably not going to do much, but consider it practice for an actual debate over homosexuality.
     
  5. Basic

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    "Even if that were true. (Which it isn't.) Wouldn't it be better for the child to be raised by them, rather then by a shelter with no parental guidance? As far as HIV is concerned. It's passed by Hetero just as easily as it is by homosexuals. It's not a matter of that. It's a matter of monogamy vs polygamy."

    Think of it logically. The problem with many people when they argue on the internet is that they get passionate. Don't get angry. If you can, walk away from the thread and return with a clear head. They don't know what you're doing. You got shit to do, you can't sit there and respond all day.

    Don't curse, be calm and collected. Even if you can't out reason them. They'll still the psycho screaming at their computer; and that will reflect in their post. You being calm will make you seem more reasonable.
     
  6. Tardis2020

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    No good can come of youtube comments.
     
  7. asdfghjk

    asdfghjk Guest

    For starters, no youtube debates. Don't even read the comments on a youtube video, that is the absolute worst place to even waste time on a "debate"

    Read up on gay debates, go to forums with well-educated members and read the debates, read the responses, and you'll widen your knowledge and experiences of how to reply to what.

    Most importantly, again, don't even bother with youtube. hell don't even bother with the internet, shit's dumb as fuck
     
  8. Chiroptera

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    My opinion:

    It is a great thing that you want to improve your arguments! A debate can be really healthy and constructive for your mind and improve a lot your speech/writing skills, and it can be really fun if you are interested in the subject.

    As Mangaholic said:

    You didn't really used clear arguments there. And, if you don't have a solid basis in a debate, you may "lose" it easily (i'm quite competitive :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: ). Of course, you don't need to quote a scientific article in every phrase (althought that helps!), but, even when expressing personal opinions or using logic, structure the sentence to make it solid and strong. It is like building a house, with strong foundations, so it is hard to anyone who passes by to try and destroy it.

    Instead of:

    Why not something like this (not sure if i captured the idea):

    Even if you are totally right, you shouldn't swear in a serious debate, or you will lose "victory points". Watch out for your grammar too (i'm sorry for any spelling mistakes on this post, english isn't my first language, but you got the idea).

    If the person says:

    "First of all if the pair decide to adopt a child it wouldn't be beneficial to the child. A Child needs a mother figure and a father figure to be able to be raised properly. Second, It would concern the Male homosexuals. Want to know why? Because Homosexual males have the highest HIV incidence rate."

    I would answer:

    "Can you prove that, or cite a scientific paper or something like that, that proves it? We already have examples of children who were raised by homosexual couples and are perfectly happy, just like kids raised by heterosexual couples. There is no difference. Here, for example: Adolescents with Lesbian Mothers Describe Their Own Lives | Williams Institute [note: I did a quick search for something that could prove and strenghten my point, but i didn't read it all. You should, but i'm just lazy here and i need to sleep] About the HIV incident rate, nowadays it is higher on heterosexuals on Africa [I'm too lazy to find a reliable source now, but you should.]. Anyway, it doesn't justify being against homosexual sex/love. There are ways to prevent infection (condoms/tests), and education plays (or should play) an important role on that too."

    Again, this is my opinion and my way of doing things, i'm not sure it is the best. Sorry about any english mistakes, it isn't my main language, as i said :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
  9. Kaiser

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    First of all, YouTube is for one of two things:

    Entertainment or Trolls.

    Since the word 'arguing' is in the thread title, I am going to assume - correctly - that you encountered the latter.

    Not bad.

    I agree with the 'fuck' factor, here. In a serious debate, using 'fuck' usually isn't a great argumentative debate tactic. Generally, outside of direct quotation, the use of swear words implies emotion has entered the debate. Emotion is considered 'a loss', in most debates, when it is shown, or used to justify a point or reason.

    I agree with your spirited answer, nonetheless. I'm sure most, who are in agreement, will understand this as well.

    Well, I suppose we should close down the world's orphanages. All orphans aren't worth taking care of, because they won't be a beneficial asset to society.

    This can only get better, right?

    These poor orphans. Why can't they just be loved? Along with divorced/widowed single parents.

    Moving on...

    The orphan discrimination is strong in this one.

    Chickenpox can kill, too. If a potential parent wants to adopt a child, but has not had the chickenpox, should we deny them a child, too?

    Is this individual suggesting, anybody that could possibly infect a child, should be kept away from said child?

    Goodbye, public school.
    Goodbye, relatives.
    Goodbye, life.

    They have to be a troll.

    That is terrible to hear, about your insurance predicament.

    If it helps, a lot of people also slip up, in discussions or debates. It happens to the best of it, so, don't worry too much about it. Just, try and perceive it as a learning experience, for the next time.

    'Know your enemy'.

    It is as simplistically complex as that.

    Look up their reasons/beliefs/facts, for why they reason, believe, accept, the position that they do. Study them. Learn supporting pieces, that enhance or strengthen their position. Notice, then learn, their techniques for dealing with counter-arguments, their tone and selection of words, for countering flaws and/or misconceptions.

    Once you know how the opposition operates, you'll know how to present and implement your own position, in a more soundly effective and coherently unbiased manner. Just rinse and repeat, for yourself.




    Oh, and don't let this happen:

    [​IMG]

    LOL!​




     
  10. Fallingdown7

    Fallingdown7 Guest

    I honestly wouldn't argue with youtubers to begin with. You find the worst people there, and people argue against everything that follows common sense. It's nothing but a shithole there when it comes to finding people to talk to.
     
  11. PurpleGrey

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    Two things: the first being that unless you're like me and love getting flustered and angry for the sake of getting flustered and angry, there's no point getting into arguments with idiotic strangers. If, however, you are a fellow anger-addict, shoot.

    Second, counter the bastard with some good old fashioned "name one real instance where having gay parents negatively affected a kid" and "HIV spreads just as easily between heterosexuals as homosexuals"

    Honestly, I don't know why people still hang onto the whole "gays have more AIDS" bullshit. One would assume people would know better by now. That'll show me to have any faith in humanity.
     
  12. Pret Allez

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    Don't. Just note who you might have to do physical combat with. Your humanity is not up for debate.
     
  13. asdfghjk

    asdfghjk Guest

    [video of wee baby puppy learning to walk on carprt]

    comments: yea fck obama bieber nugget queer fag sand terrorists damn shit homo ass anal mom cant believe this retard shit fuck u
     
  14. Kaiser

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    So, it's you, isn't it?!

    LOL!
     
  15. QueerTransEnby

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    You can't fix stupid, so why bother trying? In all honesty, these folks need someone to come out who is close to them to test their ignorance. Even then, it doesn't always work out.
     
  16. thekillingmoon

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    Don't bother arguing with people like that. It's a waste of time.
     
  17. tulipinacup

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    I stopped reading the moment I realised it involves youtube comments. It's no point in arguing with trolls. I think the better way is to read articles involving LGBT issue, educate yourself and watch videos of documentaries on what it's like to be gay, try to understand (yes, i mean it) why homophobes think that being gay is a sin or a choice or illegal.

    The point is not to argue "better" with these people but to truly understand Human Sexuality.
     
  18. tulipinacup

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    I stopped reading the moment I realised it involves youtube comments. It's no point in arguing with trolls. I think the better way is to read articles involving LGBT issue, educate yourself and watch videos of documentaries on what it's like to be gay, try to understand (yes, i mean it) why homophobes think that being gay is a sin or a choice or illegal.

    The point is not to argue "better" with these people but to truly understand Human Sexuality.
     
  19. gibson234

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    Just use calm logic. It hurts their brains.

    For example let me debunk this stupid comment. Firstly the studies that have indicated that a child is better with a "mommy and daddy" are comparing children with two parents and single parents. It is easier to parent when there are two of you oppose to only one of you. These studies aren't about the gender of the parents. However if it were true then you would have to stop single parents from adopting as well.

    Also they misunderstands the issues with adoptions. If we chose only the very best parents/guardians then most the kids in care would stay in care. Also I suspect that the gender of each parent is a small factor compared to the wealth of the parents. So should only allow the rich to adopt?

    The thing with HIV is that if the person your having sex with has HIV then you should wear a condom. Saying that you shouldn't be gay because HIV transmits more easily over anal sex is a bit like saying you should wear thick rubber shoes before touching a main electric line. We don't say that we say don't touch the main electric line in the first place. Whether your straight or gay is irrelevant, you should wear a condom before having sex with someone especially if they have HIV. It's not an issue when it comes to "choosing to be gay".
     
  20. Radioactive Bi

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    I generally ask for some factual evidence to back up their claims.

    I only grew up with a father. I got on very well without a mother. So first point is a fail.

    The high incidence of HIV (which I'm not convinced is necessarily the case anymore) is an irrelevant point. By that logic, they are saying that any straight parent that somehow contracts that disease should have there kids taken off them. Another fail there.

    You just have to use rational arguments with them and get them to prove their claims. If they fail to do so, you are free to dismiss them out of hand.

    Happy days :slight_smile: