Why I'm a meat eater who has no guilt?

what do our genes make us tho, what's our design

 

I'm a vegan. I'm opposed to the enslaving part, too.

 

The main reason I prefer to not eat meat is because of the environmental impact, as well as my own health.

As to why we aren't killing species of animals to end their misery? Well, there's this thing called an ecosystem.

I might have gotten your whole post wrong and my post might not make sense. I'm very tired.

 

Well, I assume you're implying that dairy and egg production are equivalent to slavery, if it is held that the killing of an animal for food is immoral. I would agree. For this reason, I am also opposed to dairy and egg production, and thus don't eat dairy or egg.

We can release them into the wild. It is not an acceptable argument in favour of slavery to say that you have to keep slaves, or else they'd die, so I don't see how it's appropriate here. My objection to the farming of animals, though, extends beyond suffering. We, as a species who define ourselves primarily by our intelligence, and morality, must hold ourselves to different standards than we do non-human animals. We don't have the right to interfere with nature in the way that we do, and we don't have the right to cause suffering. We've caused many, many extinctions over the years, and continued farming activity is only going to increase it. Thus, the survival of the species we farm is not an acceptable argument either.

Basically, either you consider animals to have moral value, but you don't care, or you don't consider animals to have moral value. Which is it?

 

Oh, hun...

Human life is not great, either. The majority of human beings have to work back-bending hours -often in terrible conditions- for meager compensation; homelesness is aboundant, discrimination, crimes, wars, exploitation, human trafficking, etc.

Are you suggesting it would be better for humanity to live in cages -fed with tubes, swimming in our own excrements and unable to ever see the sun- from the day we were born until our death? To spare ourselves the hardship?

 

I believe humans are meant to be omnivores. It's how our bodies were made, and meat and other animal products have many benefits to us.

I do not agree with the inhumane conditions of some places where livestock are raised, but I see no problem with those who are raised nicely and killed swiftly. You are right, it is far less of a painful death than the animals killed by wild carnivores.

 

It's worth bearing in mind that, if we were to release all edible domesticated animals back into the wild, they wouldn't stand a chance. Many of them have been artificially selected over many generations to be more docile and, well, bigger and bulkier for extra food production.

I know this isn't a good argument against vegetarianism, because I feel the very least we can do is make living conditions better for some domesticated animals (especially poultry.) But 'releasing' them back into the wild isn't a solution. I'll continue to eat meat.

 

A big problem we're facing is the decrease of biodiversity. Why that is a big problem I don't have the energy to explain.
By killing off species the biodiversity would decrease even more. Instead you'll have to look at why these animals are suffering. Is it because of something humans have caused or is there another reason. If humans have caused it then the root of the problem should be looked at, killing the specie off is not a solution. If humans haven't caused it then we shouldn't interfere.

 

Not to burst your bubble, but a classic vegetarian diet includes eggs and dairy, which are farm animal products, and farm animal products keep animals on farms. Most vegetarians that choose their diet for the animals aren't about putting animals "back in nature", or whatever, they're just opposed to factory farming methods that are the key to keeping meat production going. These modern methods are terrible not only for animals, but for humans that work in the meat production industry at the factory level - many meat farmers are killed every day in factory farms. Nature is inherently cruel, there's no denying that. But modern farms are greatly in need of reforms.

It would be more adequate, to use your description, to say that there are two dictators. One believes in enslaving a group for the natural duration of the members lifespan, for the purpose of utilizing that groups "useful" products while providing that group the opportunity to live out lives relatively safe from natural predators. The second believes in enslaving that group provided they can maximize their profit margines by having that group enslaved - whether it's through infanticide, early-induced puberty, mutilation, or mass killing - if it brings in the money, who cares? The first dictator is representative of vegetarians, the second of the meat industry. And then there are vegans, they're an outlier, like the crazy hobo with tourrets that wanders around decrying everybody or something (I mean that lovingly).

And yeah, their domesticated nature makes them less equipped for living outside of human proximity, but I'm pretty sure farm animals won't just "go extinct" if re-introduced to natural environments - hell, pigs go feral faster than any other creature we know of. In just a matter of weeks, they grow coarse fur, tusks, and a mean disposition. Sure, they'd die terribly in the wild, but that's just a fact of life - nature is cruel.

Honestly, I don't try and tell anyone how to eat, and I think it's fine that you don't feel guilt for your dietary choices. But I think you need a stronger, more realistic argument for why eating meat is inherently better than choosing not to. I mean if vegetarians were about putting farm animals "back in nature", how the fuck would they get their eggs or dairy? Would they wander around in the forest like early hunters and gatherers, hoping to stumble upon chicken roosts and recently mothered cattle? Also, if vegetarians are like Dictator A in your argument, how do we get from animal enslavement to putting animals back in nature? Wouldn't animal enslavement suggest living the "farm life"? Or are you suggesting that meat-eaters should be hunting for their meat, because that's the only scenario I can see where animals are being killed without being enslaved. And that kind of just brings us back to the idea of putting farm animals back in nature, honestly, which you proceeded to suggest is just a one way, Dora the Explorer style road map to extinction, which I'm pretty sure is something you painted as bad before. And where exactly is the concept of genocide coming from? From eating a diet that contains meat or from eating one that doesn't, because at this point I am honestly not sure anymore. What about ducks? Some ducks are raised on farms and other ducks are hunted in the wild. Are duck eggs just a slippery slope to genocide? Does anyone even eat duck eggs? And what confuses me even further is that you agree that there's flaws inherent in farming methods. Are you a cynic? Do you believe that omitting meat is morally negative because it confines animals to living in shitty, modern day factory farming conditions without providing them the opportunity for the sweet sweet release of death after a maximum of a few years time? And if it is a case of cynicism, where exactly does the idea of releasing farm animals into the wild come from? If they were in the wild, wouldn't it be easier for meat-eaters to hunt for their meat, no enslaved animals necessary? Are the meat-eaters the ones that want to put animals back into the wild? Who is putting these animals back in the wild? Did that hobo with tourettes representative of veganism manage to set free some chickens?

And seriously what about ducks?

 

We don't have to eat ducks, or quails, or any wild game birds that people shoot for fun. We do it because we like the taste. Humans are selfish. And I think different people are going to disagree about whether it's morally acceptable to kill wild animals for the purpose of food, when, at least in first world countries, it's unnecessary.

 

I'm the same way,I don't feel guilty.

 

I want to eat my meat in peace. I don't feel any guilt for eating it, but I am willing to respect vegetarian/vegan lifestyle choices. Better conditions for the animals will probably yield better meat, and it's better for the animals as well.How would the farm animals survive in the wild? They'd be eaten by animals that adapted better, right?
In either case, I don't really care unless people start resorting to the Appeal to Nature fallacy.

 

I like chicken too much.

I could, if absolutely necessary, forsake all meat... but chicken.