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Denying Same gender marriage in church

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Ryujin, Oct 31, 2014.

  1. Ryujin

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    Is it discriminatory for a church to decide to disallow a same gender couple to be married in their church? Do the church's belief's exclude them from discrimination laws?

    Opinions?
     
  2. AlamoCity

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    As much as I'd personally hate it to be discriminated against by a church, it is their moral and constitutional prerogative to do as they please.
     
  3. QueerTransEnby

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    Personally, I don't feel a church is required to do anything. I have a problem with the state limiting marriage due to the fact that they are to represent all people. I am not saying that the churches denying are not closed-minded because they are. Why should I want to get married in a place that doesn't affirm my beliefs? The separation of church and state is a two way street.

    I know I will be in the minority on this, but I don't care.
     
  4. BryanM

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    If the church is a non profit organization or is tax exempt, then yes, the state should say something about it.
     
  5. AlexTheGrey

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    I have to agree with biguy8 here. Not much I can add.
     
  6. Hexagon

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    Something funny I heard yesterday. There actually was a same sex marriage at my mother's church, which was held in a church to which this law applies (though my mother's church isn't anglican itself). They didn't even try to hide it or anything. The vicar was happy to hold the marriage. The thing is that while it might not be strictly legal, they don't dare enforce the law.

    Obviously the law is wrong. If the church of england (or individual churches within it) want to hold same sex marriages, they should be able.
     
  7. MintberryCrunch

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    Nope. Churches have a right to refuse same-sex marriages just like they have a right to adopt it if they want to.
     
  8. Hexagon

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    The thing is, there is a law that I assume Ryujin is referring to, banning same sex marriages from taking place in churches run by the church of england, even when those churches would like to conduct them. Even if the church as a whole would like to conduct them, I believe.
     
  9. MintberryCrunch

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    And that I disagree with. I don't know enough about UK politics to know how separation of church and state works there, but around here, I don't believe there could be a law forbidding churches from performing same-sex marriages if they wanted, although certainly if a local church adopted it against the rules of their denomination, they could be kicked out of the denomination or parish. But that's purely a religious matter.
     
  10. Nychthemeron

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    Basically.

    I'd wish that all churches would, but it's completely their right to not.

    And, someone made a good point: that I really wouldn't want to get married in a church that never supported us, anyway.
     
  11. Hexagon

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    Unfortunately the church and state here still retain a historic link. The current government doesn't seem to like the concept of secularism. The law doesn't apply to other religions, though. Or christian traditions not bound to the state church.
     
  12. Ryujin

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    The way I see it depends on the answer to a single question:

    Do you think there should be anti-discrimination laws?
     
  13. MintberryCrunch

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    Of course there should be.

    It's how far they stretch that the issues arise. For the most part, they don't cover private institutions. Only problem is, since churches are tax exempt and often entangled with the secular world (such as in places with state religions), they're not entirely private.
     
  14. AlamoCity

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    I agree with anti-discrimination laws in terms of housing, employment, and other facets of life, but would still carve out exemptions for religious orders/institutions.

    For example, I also believe in non-discrimination policies for religious beliefs. If I were Lutheran, I shouldn't be fired from work because my boss hates Lutherans. That said, if I were seeking employment in an Evangelical church, there would be nothing wrong with them requiring being a member of the same faith to work there.

    Also, with marriages, churches have the right to decide who they officiate marriages for. For example, many churches only officiate marriages between members of the same church who are in good standing. We don't force churches to perform heterosexual marriages of members who are not of the same faith.
     
  15. Hexagon

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    What happens if it's a religious housing organisation?
     
  16. AlamoCity

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    Well, I don't have much experience with religious housing organizations, but I would say that if they're allowed to discriminate/screen based on religious affiliation, they are entitled to discriminate/screen based on other protected factors. Of course, they would have to meet non-profit status.

    The sad part is that discrimination based on sexual orientation/gender identity is actually legal in a majority of the United States. You wouldn't even need to use the religious exemption clause of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    [​IMG] Also, there are a few more states that only protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation and not gender identity/transgender status
    .
     
  17. WearyWanderer

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    In my opinion, it would be discriminatory to force the church to wed same sex couples if they are against it. Look, although I don't agree with them, many churches still hold the belief that homosexuality and same sex marriage is sinful, and to try and force different beliefs on them would be wrong, and by the LGBT community's standards, hypocritical. Assuming same sex marriage is legal within the state/country, then the couples have other options to get married.
     
  18. Kaiser

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    Even if it was made illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation, it wouldn't do much good, so long as there is that at-will employment nonsense. You can be fired for any reason, and not told why, because of it.
     
  19. Blossom85

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    To be honest, i wouldn't want to get married in church that didn't want me to get married there if I was marrying someone of the same gender as me.. It does get tricky though cause the church have a right to their own views and opinions, however it isn't necessarily right of them to deny a same sex marriage because of their beliefs. If I wanted to marry in a church and they denied me, I wouldn't fight them on it, I would just find some other location to be married, perhaps that could be as I am not overly religious and I don't see myself marrying in a church regardless of whom I marry.
     
  20. QueerTransEnby

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    Not to mention that it further fuels their fire that gays are out to "take their religious freedom away". I will be frank; now that this issue has come up, it makes it harder for me to come out to church people. As an LGBT Christian, it makes it unduly difficult.