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Lesbians aren't real, but gay men are?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Anongirl123, Nov 10, 2014.

?

Gay men are real, but lesbians aren't

  1. Mostly true

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Somewhat true

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. Absolutely false

    43 vote(s)
    97.7%
  1. Anongirl123

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    Hi guys. I was thinking about an argument I've recently heard: that gay men are real, but lesbians aren't. It's basically the idea that all women are "a little lesbian", and homosexuality is mostly a choice for women, but not for men.

    I don't think this is true, but I can kind of see where this hypothesis comes from. I think people naturally assume that men are more primal and drawn by sexual desires, and therefore cannot choose or force an attraction to other men unless they're truly gay (or bisexual). Women, however, are so "majestic" and beautiful as is, it's no wonder straight women can feel somewhat attracted to them. People also claim that women are more emotional, so when considering a relationship with someone, the sex and gender aspect may not be as important to them.

    All of this is very confusing (and disheartening!).

    The fact that there are women out there who (supposedly) pursue lesbian relationships for feminist/political reasons only makes matters worse. All the time, you see or read about women who were very much straight when younger, and then decided to pursue other women after a certain age because they were so fed-up with men, and wanted the 'superior' emotional element that only another woman can provide. I know some people automatically say these women were lesbians all along, but I'm not so sure. I can imagine a woman pursuing a lesbian relationship by choice, be it for political reasons or because she has some notable problem with men. Regardless, I don't think I've ever heard of a man doing this. It's sad though, because these types of situations seem to invalidate the 'true' lesbians out there, and feeds into the lesbian man-hater stereotype. I think the worst case scenario is when a woman who "went gay" later in life assert that yes, it was a choice, and you can still be happy with said choice. It sort of contradicts the argument made by gays and lesbians that they wouldn't be able to happily force themselves into a relationship with someone of the opposite gender.

    This obviously all ties back into a disrespect for lesbianism in general. If a guy kisses another guy in a bar, even if it's just a peck, he's automatically gay. If a woman makes out with multiple women while in college, it's totally the norm. You see lots of gay affair movies about a straight woman seduced by another woman, but you don't really see too many gay affair movies about a straight man being seduced by another man: and if he is, it's because he's gay and has been in the closet the whole time. It's common to see articles all over the internet about "how to seduce a straight women" or "why so many women are leaving their husbands for other women", but I don't think I've ever seen the male-equivalent. I think parents are probably more likely to tell gay daughters they're going through a phase, as opposed to their gay sons.

    Anyways, what do you think of this argument that gay men are real, but lesbians aren't? Why has this stereotype come about? Is it social? Political? Sexist? Or does it actually have some truth to it, rooted in biology?

    I'm curious to see what you guys think
     
  2. biAnnika

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    I can't dignify the question with a response.

    I will, however, address your post.

    First of all, Ph.D.'s in genetics don't know squat about sexuality...very little is known about the genetics of sexuality. And even parents can be misguided and sexist.

    If you want to try to make an argument that women are naturally and unavoidably attracted to women, whereas men aren't naturally and unavoidably attracted to men, give it a shot. You won't succeed, but you may enjoy the attempt. But to try to extend that to an argument that women *must* be sexually attracted to men is fundamentally sexist...at the very least, it doesn't give women credit for knowing who they're attracted to (silly fuckin' lesbians...they just don't *realize* they're attracted to men...just like the silly straight girls don't realize they're hot for women too). It also glorifies men (why would anyone assume that men as a class are so damned sexy that *every* woman must be attracted to them??).

    And does anyone actually know anyone who regularly violates their own sexuality just to make a political statement? Let alone enough to make it a stereotype? It's a laughable premise. I very much like your comparison of straight women dating women to the notion of gay men and women dating the opposite sex: the latter is shown over and over not to work...so why would the former?

    But don't get the focus wrong. These attitudes aren't about disrespecting lesbians. It's about disrespecting women generally. Again, it's about assuming that whereas men *can* know who they're attracted to, women are misguided and need to be told who they find attractive (and ultimately who they should have sex with).
     
  3. Skaros

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    There have been studies that showed women have a more "fluid" sexual orientation, but I think it's not a choice for women either. If it was, then you would see barely any lesbians at all. Sexual orientation works differently for women, but it still affects the brain in a way that can't simply be changed by choice, or even therapy.
     
  4. SomeLeviathan

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    the natural condition of humankind
    even if we operate under the assumption that sexuality were a choice, does that some how make it less "real"?
     
  5. Pret Allez

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    Complete cissexist heteropatriarchal bullshit.
     
  6. Tightrope

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    It was interesting to see this ... that little is known about the genetics of homosexuality. They perform twin studies and the like but, again, those have nothing to do with genetics.

    The attitude you describe is not something I see often, probably because of the company I keep, but I remember such a situation with my first cousin. Without getting into details, I had run into three women, one of whom was probably a very large butch lesbian. Of these three women, she was the only one who was unpleasant and seemed to give the vibe that she wasn't comfortable interacting. I told my cousin about this exchange which had happened earlier in the day. He said, "She just needs to find the right guy." His wife, who just sort of coexists with my cousin, rolled her eyes. Her expression was priceless. She is perceptive. He, on the other hand, is not.

    I voted "absolutely false." If there is an exclusively homosexual man, then there is his "counterpart" - the exclusively lesbian woman (*wording might be redundant*).
     
  7. stocking

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    I actually got told this by a straight guy I was friends with , he told me i'm just lesbian because men have hurt me in the past which isn't true I actually got along very well with men in the past . It's not til recently that I'm having trouble with some men .
    He also told me I just need to find the right man and I will not be a lesbian anymore , oh and the right man meaning him , he told me if I sleep with him i'll fall in love with and he can fix me .
    I personally hate this bullshit type of thinking, but it's one of the reasons I'm still not comfortable with being an out lesbian besides my parents .

    I'm also a later in life lesbian as well , the thing with most of us later in life lesbians is we weren't lucky like the other lesbians to learn we were gay or if we knew we brushed it off and went into denial for years.
     
    #7 stocking, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
  8. Aussie792

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    Apart from Pret Allez's very concise explanation, it's a simple matter of disrespecting women's sexual choices and only giving legitimacy, indeed reality, to men's sexuality.
     
    #8 Aussie792, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
  9. stocking

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    I think it's like saying women don't have a sexuality or we're not allowed to own our sexuality . :dry:
    We're always told this your suppose to like men and that's it and I was taught that the hard way , my dad beat me with a belt when he realized I had same sex attraction .

    Plus our sexuality is seen as just to please men in this society

    Sometimes when men tell me I'm too hot to be lesbian , or I've been hurt by men that's why I'm lesbian , I always want to say "who the fuck are you to tell me , me what my sexuality should be or what I should like . Fuck you "
     
    #9 stocking, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
  10. bicomplicated

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    I second this. This assumption is total bs. sorry!
     
  11. Melanie

    Melanie Guest

    God, you know what? Its posts like these that just make me want to give up. If people really believe the "choice" crap and that women "become" lesbians for political reasons or because they hate men then screw it . What was the point of me struggling for MONTHS over coming to terms with being gay. When I read this kind of crap I just want to say "fuck it".
     
  12. stocking

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    I actually feel like this to I just want to say fuck it no one is gonna believe I'm lesbian anyway . :icon_sad:
    The post doesn't upset me but it's because I had this told to me so many times that makes me upset .
    My sexuality will never be respected .
     
  13. Melanie

    Melanie Guest

    Yeah thats what REALLY bothers me: I'm not the only one going through it. I know how people can be... making assumptions... not taking it seriously.
     
  14. stocking

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    Even my mom told me stuff like this and it hurt . :icon_sad:
     
  15. Melanie

    Melanie Guest

    gimmie 5 minutes in a room with your mama, stocking. i promise you she'd never say it again after a few choice words from me.

    kidding... i'm really sorry hon. i know how much that kind of stuff hurts coming from those closest to you. :frowning2:
     
  16. Anongirl123

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    OP here: I'm not saying I believe these things at all :frowning2: . I am questioning myself, about 90% sure I am gay, and it hurt my self esteem when my father told me this. It spurred me to do a little research, and after browsing around, I was surprised to see some of these beliefs being echoed multiple times. I was curious why these beliefs even exist in the first place.

    The fact that I have a straight identical twin makes me doubt myself even more. I'm terrified that if I ever do come out, I'll face a lifetime of people telling me "that's impossible - if you're gay and your identical twin is straight, one of you is lying, or it's a choice"

    It's a relief to me that everyone's voting a strong no though.
     
  17. stocking

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    :tears:
    Sometimes I think I just shouldn't come out , and I should just be lesbian in public and not care and let them find out that way .
     
  18. Melanie

    Melanie Guest

    My post is directed at the people that really DO think this way... and yes they are out there. I dont see it expressed much on these forums, so I guess it was a little upsetting to have the reminder. I cant even tell you how many times I hear "choice" coupled with "gay" ...its not directed specifically at lesbians but its the same mentality.


    (*hug*)
     
  19. stocking

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    (*hug*) thank you
     
  20. ChloeKiss

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    Your mum is just a dumbass. She is a vile woman who doesn't deserve you. I will reply to this thread soon guys.. If anyone wants to bother reading what I have to say.