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Division in the LGBTQIAP+ community.

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by antibinary, Nov 15, 2014.

  1. antibinary

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    I was in a discussion about labels and the topic of the LGBTQIAP+ community being unaccepting of the people in the acoronym that aren't L or G. While I haven't experienced this myself, I have heard a lot of stories from bisexual people about biphobia in the community. Also, I have heard couple of stories from people who have had their asexuality or transgender/intersex/non binary status questioned. And this got me thinking: if we can't accept each other within our community, how are we supposed to get society to accept us, let alone brake away from the cisgender/straight default. The first step to equality is solidarity, so we should really do the thing we tell society to do. Accept each other.
    Any stories/thoughts?
     
  2. Tardis2020

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    We live in a world with a social hierarchy, and even the LGBT community has its own hierarchy with its own "norms."
     
  3. stocking

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    Even in other groups such as different races ,and classes you can see this it's human nature and the weakness human beings have .
    It will be hard for us to fight to do better but I don't think it's impossible sure we'll always have a few closed minded jerks but I think we should do better in the LGBT community .
     
  4. gravechild

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    When you take everyone who isn't straight, and/or cis, and group them together, you're bound to get a few disagreements. And, like anything else, there are hierarchies - I've heard the movement has essentially become one of and for middle class, cis, gay men. The truth is, the battle isn't over yet, and we're still stronger when we come together for a common goal. Marriage is fine and dandy, but let's not forget there's still sexual assaults, sexually transmitted diseases, homelessness, drug and alcohol use, casual trans and homophobia...
     
  5. stocking

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    This :thumbsup:
     
  6. antibinary

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    A hierarchy is natural. It is natural that some more vocal members will be more respected than some random person. But it seems ironic that a community who's flag symbolises inclusivity (people of colours of the gender and sexuality spectrum) can't cope with certain groups that it's meant to represent.
     
  7. Tardis2020

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    I wasn't trying to defend the hierarchy, just stating its there, no offense intended. Unfortunately, human nature is to fear what's different, fear leads to hate, and no matter how different one is someone else is always more different and is the object of their hate.
     
  8. antibinary

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    So much for the rainbow, we should really remind people about what the banner they stand under respresents.
     
  9. PlantSoul

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    This is one of the main reason why I have been so reluctant to come out as Asexual. I really think there should be more awareness on the other identities that make up the community. Society keeps leaving out the other identities. We've been taking up the position of an outsider or the step-child! There has been more activity in the Trans and Bisexual communities, that I have noticed as of late, which is good.
     
  10. Aussie792

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    In a movement for equality, it's deeply depressing to see external hierarchy enforced within the community.

    That's not to say I don't expect it, but it's something that we really need to challenge effectively. Prioritising those who need help the least is not a truly progressive movement aimed at equality.

    That said, I'm limited by being one of those given priority within the community, so I and others in the same position should be speaking from the sidelines and propping up others in this issue, not trying to lead the way ourselves.
     
  11. Austin

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    I agree. Considering the name is now "LGBTQIAP+", basically everyone who isn't a heterosexual is grouped together... that's gonna cause some debate, especially when some of the identities aren't even really recognized as legit yet (and I would argue some are more disorders (and classified that way by the DSM-5), which doesn't necessarily mean there anything wrong with them... but anyways...).

    As people have said there will be a hierarchy and in group/out group dynamics in anything. LGBT people may be more accepting but they're human, with all the associated human fallibilities, and many have taken long enough just to accept their own sexuality. In addition, people will prioritize issues that are closer to home, and so it comes down to numbers. There's simply more gay/lesbian people than other groups and they will obviously, blamelessly, fight more for things that directly benefit their own group, and prioritize their own livelihood.
     
  12. SomeLeviathan

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    I can't speak for those outside the United States but what I have observed is a lack of intersectionality among the QUILTBAG+ movement. It seems like every day we have new articles about how there is another win in the fight for marriage equality, which don't get me wrong is certainly a worthy fight.

    There are a few groups locally about which I know and federally that help QUILTBAG+ youth who have been forced out of their homes, who don't have access to mental health care that they may require, or are otherwise disenfranchised. Similar to the split between 2nd and 3rd wave feminism, I'd rather see a focus on the issues faced by those who are hurt the most by heterosexist systemic issues, like disenfranchised youth instead of all the movements toward Marriage equality.

    ---------- Post added 16th Nov 2014 at 10:40 AM ----------


    this to me, as Aussie pointed out, is the external oppressive systems finding their way into the systemic issues inside the quiltbag+ community. There is also a movement among some trans individuals (not so affectionately referred to as truscum) that engage in oppression of nonbinary folks.
     
  13. Pret Allez

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    Multisexuals and trans/genderqueer people get shit on.

    There are examples of it here.
     
  14. Mickz

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    I know a gay guy that says he's for everything and then goes saying that Trans people are just pretending, like really? I really hate hypocrites :/
     
  15. TheStormInside

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    I agree completely, antibinary. Though I think the others are right, too, if you throw everyone who fits under the general "queer" category together people are bound to misunderstand or dislike each other at some point. Just because someone is lesbian doesn't mean they "get" someone that's trans or asexual or whatever else. I do think that as people who have been marginalized we should all exercise empathy for one another, however. I'll admit there are things I don't understand about the LGBT+ community, and some of the groups therein, but I try to learn more about them so that I can approach the subject with understanding and open mindedness should I meet people that fall under those categories.

    We're all human, and I feel like those who have been wronged or excluded have a choice- you can take your anger out on others, or you can turn that anger into understanding. Personally I'd opt for the latter.
     
  16. antibinary

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    Should we change the ever expanding acronym to 'queer alphabet soup' like I've seen suggested. It means people who aren't directly in the acronym (I.e in the plus) aren't othered by being in the plus.
     
  17. stocking

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    Can you explain this queer alphabet soup more I'm confused by what that means .:confused:
     
  18. TheStormInside

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    It just keeps getting longer and longer, I think it would make more sense either to just use a general word to describe the community (like "queer") or find an acronym that could be used. I say LGBT mainly because it's what is recognized by most and because I can't remember absolutely all of the other letters. Plus, even "LGBT" alone is already a mouthful.
     
  19. stocking

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    You mean just calling it the queer community or using queer to call ourselves ?
     
  20. TheStormInside

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    I mean calling it the "queer community."