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Conscientious Objection

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Kaiser, Nov 20, 2014.

  1. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

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    Another day, another topic.

    I have obtained conscientious objection status, living in the United States. I obtained it at 19 years of age, though it wasn't easy, and the recruiting office staff was giving me total hell about it. I was called a coward and told, I was not giving back to my country, and how, by me not making myself available, somebody else would have to go, to take my place.

    The purpose of this thread, is in two parts:

    The first part is, what do you think of conscientious objection? Should it be an option? If so, should it be a guaranteed option, or something kept difficult to obtain? I'm especially curious, as to those who live in countries, where military service is mandatory, in some shape or fashion.

    The second part is, do you think conscientious objectors, are any way cowardly or failing to live up to some kind of responsibility?
     
  2. QueerTransEnby

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    Ok, please explain. Do you mean you did not register with selective service? I must have been asleep in government class when this was discussed. I have never heard of this...
     
  3. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

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    I'm registered, sadly. I'm biologically male, so, it is mandatory.

    I'm not surprised, that you don't know about this. Not many do, which is sad, because it'd probably make a lot of people, feel more comfortable about their selective service.

    Conscientious objection status is, basically, when you convince the recruiting staff, that you are not eligible to be drafted, or serve in combat. Even in a draft, I can't be thrown into the front lines, but if things get that bad, I'd probably serve behind the lines, as some kind of support.
     
  4. Pret Allez

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    I resent the way conscientious objection is currently set up.

    I don't like how you're required to demonstrate an almost religious commitment to nonviolence. Why do I have to be committed to nonviolence to be antimilitarist? I hate nonviolence. I have real reasons, as a person committed to the utility of violence, to be opposed to the US government's foreign policy and the organizational structure of the military.

    ~ Adrienne
     
  5. AlamoCity

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    Usually, that's for religious reasons like people who are Jehovah's Witnesses, but even then, I thought that only happened if the draft was reinstated and you had to go before the local draft board. I registered with SSS, but I basically have certain health issues that would make me ineligible to even volunteer for military service :lol:.
     
  6. Aussie792

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    It is not cowardice to refuse to serve for institutions that you don't support, for those whom you have no real reason to obey. There should never be a legal requirement to sacrifice yourself in war. There is no justice or democracy in conscription.

    I intend not to make myself available for the Finnish year of conscription; I'm not sacrificing my studies for the sake of being put into an army. I'm lucky enough to have my primary residence in Australia, but many have to go into training against their will or face the consequences.

    I don't believe conscientious objection should exist, because nobody should ever be drafted against their will.
     
    #6 Aussie792, Nov 20, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  7. QueerTransEnby

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    Being that I am college educated and consider myself to be very civic-minded, I am embarrassed that I don't know anything specifically by this term. Thanks for explaining.
     
  8. Damien

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    I think it depends upon the conflict one is being asked to join. If the borders of my Country were being invaded, and if the invaders were going to rape, pillage etc, then I would personally fight the invaders, or if physically unable to, at least lend support to the defense of the Land in other ways. But if it's just to satisfy the desire for increased power and profit by transnational corporations and the military-industrial-complex, I would tell them they should fight their own battles. Maybe the elites of each nation could be put into a ring, where they could slug it out for world domination. Would save a lot of pain and misery for the remaining 99% of humanity.
     
  9. MintberryCrunch

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    What Aussie said. The fact that it even has to exist is the problem--no one should be drafted and there should be no sexist selective service.

    That said, I have not become a conscientious objector mainly because it's too much trouble and the experience you just described certainly puts me off of it. Additionally, the likelihood of the draft being used in the U.S. again is so slight that I don't necessarily consider it something to worry about.
     
  10. Austin

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    I'm not sure. I haven't really thought about it much. But, right now I'm feeling like conscientious objection is not something that should even exist if there is a draft or something. Why should anyone else have to serve for you -- do any regular civilians actually WANT to go to war? I feel like MOST people would conscientiously object if it was easy. So why should those who manage to go through the hell of bureaucracy to get that status be the only ones exempt? I'd conscientiously object if I could, though, since its a thing. I'd definitely refuse to serve in a war that was not in defense and not morally right... Eh, the whole war and military and killing thing is a mess so I don't even know!
     
  11. Black Raven

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    Conscientious Objection is -perfectly- fine to me.

    It was hard to enforce (The objection) earlier in my country, but it's completely optional to do military service now. Forcing/Drafting people into military service disgusts me, and blaming or shunning people for going the way of conscientious objection is even worse. Calling such people cowards is ridiculous.

    I would never give my life for military service, or my country, or any other country.
    Not with the way politics are being run, not with the motives behind all the wars that are going on.

    I -have- an natural inclination to violence, deep inside of me.
    I have never and will never use or live it out on people dear to me, and am mostly peaceful.
    I am, however, willing to use violence to defend myself, those dear to me, to put people down when they cross the line. Or to achieve goals I really desire to achieve.

    I'm trained in martial arts, I'm trained with firearms, I'm trained with using body armour and a variety of weapons, have an incredible fighting spirit, know how to kill a man and I am entirely convinced that I would not hesitate and go all the way and kill another human if necessary.

    None of that changes that I would never sign up for any military service owned and guided by the goverment. Ever. Not with the rotten beings that dictate how this world/society of ours works. I'm not going to even consider possibly sacrificing my life for that.
     
    #11 Black Raven, Nov 20, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  12. Kaiser

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    Interestingly, they don't accept a strictly religious reason. You have to give them a sound and logical answer, but even then, they'll rip that to shreds. Their logic is, anybody can do harm or kill, if they are in the right situation; to protect a loved one, to protect yourself, if in an emotional fury, etc. Which is really fucked up, and what they tried to run past me.

    You can still get it, without there being a draft, but it usually isn't worth it, unless you're adamant about removing any possibility. My main reason for doing it, was because of the domino effect of conflicts, the United States was getting into around that time. We were already in Afghanistan and going into Iraq, so, it didn't feel like I had any time to waste.

    I went in and told them, I have to get conscientious objection status. Even though it was frustrating, and I had to deal with their cutting remarks, they finally gave it to me. But the thing is, it's a one time deal. If you decide, later on, you want to enlist, they scrap your conscientious objector status, and you can't get it again. I'm not dying for somebody else, especially if that somebody else, can declare a war from a safe distance.

    I've often wondered, what would happen, in terms of foreign policy, if political leaders, if war is declared, were forced to serve on the front lines; how more willing to compromise and negotiation we'd be...
     
  13. kumawool

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    1) Yes, it should be an option. Or rather, mandatory recruitment shouldn't be enforced.

    2) Holding life to such a standard, that you go above the morality of the law, demonstrates a fully developed moral compass, and notable courage. It is not cowardly.
     
  14. Damien

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    I recall reading that Richard 111 was the last English King to actually fight in a battle. After him, they would show up, but would 'lead from behind', it seems. From a safe distance. Nowadays, our so-called 'leaders' don't even show up.
     
  15. Austin

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    Leaders SHOULDN'T show up in theory. Technically they are quite important for strategizing and ruling the country. Their loss would cause more panic, demoralization, and confusion. Although I think we may be better off losing some of our leaders as we are now....
     
  16. EpicConfusion

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    Exactly how I feel. I will never voluntarily give my life, or take another for a government that is oppressive and destructive. I'm really not excited that I have to register with Selective Service in about 8 months. If I can find a way, I won't do it. I actually want to move to Switzerland or maybe Canada for lots of other reasons, but maybe if I can make it happen, I can go there.

    You are not a coward to oppose the murder of your fellow man. It is unnecessary, and immoral. How did you gain your status? I'm still a little confused and I'm assuming you Conscientiously object to registering with SS?
     
  17. Hexagon

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    I'm opposed to conscription itself. Where it exists, obviously conscientious objection should be an option. I certainly don't think it's cowardice not to fight and kill.
     
    #17 Hexagon, Nov 21, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  18. kageshiro

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    i want to do this

    i would sooner commit suicide than join the military

    and there should be no such thing as conscription in any shape or form
     
  19. Kaiser

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    Here's the deal with Selective Services, at least in the United States.

    Every [biological] male, has to register, upon the age of 18. They are, usually, given about a year, to do so; officially, it's a month. All [biological] males must register, before the age of 26, or else, they can lose their accessibility to various programs: Social Security, any and all government benefits, which includes student financial aid. In many cases, you can't get a loan, or anything, from a bank or financial institution, either. You will be fined, too, for not registering before the age of 26. You can, if Selective Services decides, be tracked down and imprisoned, if you do not register, within a month of your 18th birthday. But, they don't often do this; yet, the fact it is possible, is alarming.

    At the age of 19 (I'm such a rebel, lol), to obtain financial aid for community college, I was told to register by the financial aid department. It'd make the whole process easier, I was told, so, I did just that. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, had been going on for a few years, and there was no clear idea, of where this War on Terror was going. All the hype around it, made it appear as if, Iran would be next. I had no intention of, going to war with Iran. When I registered, I told them, since I was here, I'd like to go ahead and apply for conscientious objector status.

    All conscientious objector status does is, in the event of a mandatory draft, provide the conscientious objector with the excuse not to serve, in any combat role. It does say, however, that in the event of a national emergency, like reinstating the draft, even conscientious objectors can be put, into action. It just won't be fighting on the front lines, it would probably be production or maintenance of some type, like working in a factory or a hospital. However, you can not enlist during any conflict, even if you want to, or else you lose your conscientious objector status; and you can not get it back, after that. You can, in theory, but in practice, you're screwed.

    You have to be approved for it, and it goes on your files, with Selective Service.

    So, to sum it up. I registered, and while there, applied for conscientious objector status, despite the recruiting staff's guilt trips and harsh remarks, I got it; and that was that.

    I was just reminded of this experience, and wanted to get other inputs about/on it.
     
  20. DMark69

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    I don't have a problem with someone who is a contientious objector. I don't think it is a big deal right now unless you already are serving in the military and become one. There is a path to get out of your military contract by declaring you are a contientious objector. As for the selective service. The current registration has been in place since the mid 80s but has not been used. The last time the United States drafted anyone was VietNam. If you are drafted there should be a way for you to either not serve or serve in another capacity than fighting.

    Some countries, Germany for instance, have mandatory service. 2 years if you select military or police force, but you can choose to serve longer and serve the government in other capacities, such as maintaining roads, parks etc. What would you think of conscription if everyone were subject to it and you had those choices where you could do other civic duties than military.