Gay women and the Bible. - Empty Closets - A safe online community for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered people coming out

MusicIsLife · 12th Oct 2008, 03:54 PM

Is it just me, or is there no passages specifically about gay girls, just men? or did i miss something?

Jeimuzu · 12th Oct 2008, 04:03 PM

In those days, women didn't seem to be regarded as quite the same.

Besides, in a male-dominated world, I don't think they really minded lesbians as much as gays; after all, straight men don't mind lesbians so long as they're young, good looking, and willing to be videotaped.

MusicIsLife · 12th Oct 2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeimuzu

after all, straight men don't mind lesbians so long as they're young, good looking, and willing to be videotaped.

That is very true.

spellbound118 · 12th Oct 2008, 04:27 PM

We spoke about this in ethics, according to my teacher it is because women wern't seen to have sexual thoughts of their own..it was men that were sex driven and they owning the women decided what happened.

Daniel · 12th Oct 2008, 05:11 PM

It was more related to the waste of life. As semen was considered life sexual activities were it was not used was considered murder. Women's sexuality thus wasn't as big of a deal.

beckyg · 12th Oct 2008, 05:17 PM

Its true there doesn't seem to be any passages that oppose lesbian relationships but there could be one that supports it:

In the book of Ruth it talks about an incredible friendship between two women. Ruth and Noami. These were widows with no husbands and no sons to look after them. A woman without a man had no social status so these two had a common bond. When Naomi wanted to return home, Ruth made this plea.

"Do not press me to leave you or to turn back from following you! Where you go, I will go; where you lodge I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die, I will die ----there I will be buried. May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well, if even death parts me from you!" (Ruth 1:16-17)

Does this sound like friendship or an incredible love between two women? Hmmmm..... something to think about.

myra · 12th Oct 2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckyg

"Do not press me to leave you or to turn back from following you! Where you go, I will go; where you lodge I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die, I will die ----there I will be buried. May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well, if even death parts me from you!" (Ruth 1:16-17)

Does this sound like friendship or an incredible love between two women? Hmmmm..... something to think about.

Naomi was Ruth's mother-in-law though. We actually discussed this book in one of my classes. It was Ruth's place to stay with Naomi because she was literally "owned" by her husband (when he was alive). Many women develop sense of love for their husband's mother. Naomi was also aging and had no family to turn to. It would have been very cruel for Ruth to abandon her and make her fend for herself. And keep in mind Naomi was the one who hooked Ruth and Boaz up. If their relationship was more than mother/daughter, i don't think that she would have done that.

beckyg · 12th Oct 2008, 07:58 PM

Well incest happens more than once in the Bible, right? Besides that do you know any woman who feels that way about her MIL?

myra · 12th Oct 2008, 09:06 PM

Lol...well... it can happen right? lol. I really like the woman who is hopefully going to be mother in law.

Amy · 12th Oct 2008, 09:25 PM

leave it to becky to find biblical lesbians

i actually thought the same thing. all through jr high i would snort when my religon teachers and choir leaders commented on their "great friendship"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicIsLife

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeimuzu

after all, straight men don't mind lesbians so long as they're young, good looking, and willing to be videotaped.

That is very true.

thirded

12th Oct 2008, 09:30 PM

I have often wondered this too but then again I don't know much bout the bible so i didn't really know or care too much but I do think Daniel's explanation is the most plausible.

pirateninja · 13th Oct 2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckyg

Its true there doesn't seem to be any passages that oppose lesbian relationships but there could be one that supports it:

In the book of Ruth it talks about an incredible friendship between two women. Ruth and Noami. These were widows with no husbands and no sons to look after them. A woman without a man had no social status so these two had a common bond. When Naomi wanted to return home, Ruth made this plea.

"Do not press me to leave you or to turn back from following you! Where you go, I will go; where you lodge I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die, I will die ----there I will be buried. May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well, if even death parts me from you!" (Ruth 1:16-17)

Does this sound like friendship or an incredible love between two women? Hmmmm..... something to think about.

Apparently the vow that they took to stay together is often used in modern marriage vows .

waitingsucks · 13th Oct 2008, 03:25 AM

omg, that's the bible for you. A contradiction when interpreted completely fundementally.
however this quote is one that proves that you can argue both ways with the bible

I argue over this topic with my friend a lot, some people just can't accept that the bible was written by a lot of different people and not by god word for word. I believe that it offers us many lessons and teaching, but that if you take it word for word (which not many fundementalists do btw they just intepret word for word what suits them)

anyway the bible should be used as a tool of love (which I think God intented it to be used as) instead of one of hate

ily Ruth and Naomi

beckyg · 13th Oct 2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingsucks

omg, that's the bible for you. A contradiction when interpreted completely fundementally.
however this quote is one that proves that you can argue both ways with the bible

I argue over this topic with my friend a lot, some people just can't accept that the bible was written by a lot of different people and not by god word for word. I believe that it offers us many lessons and teaching, but that if you take it word for word (which not many fundementalists do btw they just intepret word for word what suits them)

anyway the bible should be used as a tool of love (which I think God intented it to be used as) instead of one of hate

ily Ruth and Naomi

Exactly! I don't believe the Bible word for word. I just think if some Bible thumper can use it to bash my son and the people I love, I can use it in the opposite way.

Psychedelic Bookmarks · 13th Oct 2008, 09:40 AM

If you look on this website:
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.or...uth_naomi.html
It makes an excellent case for Ruth and Naomi being at least in love. I mean, they use their words in the marriage service! That's love in my book! But that's pretty much it :/

myra · 13th Oct 2008, 07:18 PM

I found one! I wasn't intentionally searching but I found this in a reading I had to do for class. Its only one sentence, But still.

"Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also
the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for
men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one
another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own
persons the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:24-27)

So there is one verse in existence that talks about lesbianism.

Miaplacidus · 13th Oct 2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckyg

Well incest happens more than once in the Bible, right? Besides that do you know any woman who feels that way about her MIL?

Not my mother and my father's mother, that's for sure. They will kill each other in the bloodiest way if brought within a mile of each other.

I have never read anything about lesbians in the bible. As it was said before, in those times, women weren't even considered... In fact, taboos against lesbianism are relatively recent, as before then, its existence wasn't even acknowledged.

VomAnderenUfer · 14th Oct 2008, 01:16 PM

I recall reading somewhere about anti-sodomy laws in England, and the reason that there weren't any directed towards women was that it was impossible for lawmakers at the time to conceive of how women would go about acting out their particular "unnatural passions." ;-) They just didn't think it was possible.

It's a very blurry memory most probably from a not-reliable source, but I guess it's food-for-thought. It goes along with women not being expected to have a sex drive of their own, or really any volition outside of the will of their husbands.

BTW, becky, you're awesome. Biblical lesbians. Who would have thunk...

Psychedelic Bookmarks · 14th Oct 2008, 01:30 PM

When they considered criminalising lesbianism, they decided not to because they thought it would just put the idea in women's heads. Much easier to just keep women in ignorance and dependance, unaware that there even was such a possibility.

12th Oct 2008, 03:54 PM	#1
MusicIsLife EC Addict Full Member Gender: Not even sure anymore. Something in between. Orientation: I like girls :) Out Status: Everyone on orientation 7 people on trans issue. Location: Montréal, QC Age: 23 Posts: 1,595 Join Date: Dec 2007	Gay women and the Bible. Is it just me, or is there no passages specifically about gay girls, just men? or did i miss something?

12th Oct 2008, 04:03 PM	#2
Jeimuzu Wreck Cognition Full Member Gender: Heterogametic Orientation: Rawr. Out Status: 99% out. Location: Middlesbrough Age: 23 Posts: 1,744 Join Date: Aug 2007	Re: Gay women and the Bible. In those days, women didn't seem to be regarded as quite the same. Besides, in a male-dominated world, I don't think they really minded lesbians as much as gays; after all, straight men don't mind lesbians so long as they're young, good looking, and willing to be videotaped. __________________

12th Oct 2008, 04:27 PM	#4
spellbound118 Member Regular Member Gender: Female Orientation: Lesbian Out Status: Out to everyone Location: England Age: 20 Posts: 55 Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: Gay women and the Bible. We spoke about this in ethics, according to my teacher it is because women wern't seen to have sexual thoughts of their own..it was men that were sex driven and they owning the women decided what happened. __________________ If you don't try you fail by default - JKR Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open - Dumbledore GOF.

12th Oct 2008, 05:11 PM	#5
Daniel the great cheese danish Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Buffalo, NY Age: 21 Posts: 2,874 Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: Gay women and the Bible. It was more related to the waste of life. As semen was considered life sexual activities were it was not used was considered murder. Women's sexuality thus wasn't as big of a deal. __________________ "Nobody can teach me who I am, who can describe parts of me, but who I am and what I need, these are things I have to find out myself." - Chunua Achebe

12th Oct 2008, 05:17 PM	#6
beckyg PFLAG Mom Community Liaison Gender: Female Orientation: Straight Out Status: Out to everyone/Yes, parents come out too! Location: Middle of Oregon Age: 50 Posts: 7,572 Join Date: Mar 2007	Re: Gay women and the Bible. Its true there doesn't seem to be any passages that oppose lesbian relationships but there could be one that supports it: In the book of Ruth it talks about an incredible friendship between two women. Ruth and Noami. These were widows with no husbands and no sons to look after them. A woman without a man had no social status so these two had a common bond. When Naomi wanted to return home, Ruth made this plea. "Do not press me to leave you or to turn back from following you! Where you go, I will go; where you lodge I will lodge; your people shall be my people, and your God my God. Where you die, I will die ----there I will be buried. May the Lord do thus and so to me, and more as well, if even death parts me from you!" (Ruth 1:16-17) Does this sound like friendship or an incredible love between two women? Hmmmm..... something to think about. __________________ "When we're free to love anyone we choose, When this worlds big enough for all different views, When we're all free to worship from our own kind of pew, Then we shall be free" ~ Garth Brooks

12th Oct 2008, 07:58 PM	#8
beckyg PFLAG Mom Community Liaison Gender: Female Orientation: Straight Out Status: Out to everyone/Yes, parents come out too! Location: Middle of Oregon Age: 50 Posts: 7,572 Join Date: Mar 2007	Re: Gay women and the Bible. Well incest happens more than once in the Bible, right? Besides that do you know any woman who feels that way about her MIL? __________________ "When we're free to love anyone we choose, When this worlds big enough for all different views, When we're all free to worship from our own kind of pew, Then we shall be free" ~ Garth Brooks

12th Oct 2008, 09:06 PM	#9
myra EC Addict Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Pansexual Out Status: Out to everyone Location: BTown, Ohio Age:* 22 Posts: 449 Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Gay women and the Bible. Lol...well... it can happen right? lol. I really like the woman who is hopefully going to be mother in law.

12th Oct 2008, 09:30 PM	#11
Hidden Angel Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Gay women and the Bible. I have often wondered this too but then again I don't know much bout the bible so i didn't really know or care too much but I do think Daniel's explanation is the most plausible.

13th Oct 2008, 03:25 AM	#13
waitingsucks Rainbow Philosopher Full Member Gender: XY Orientation: Guylove (between 2 guys) Out Status: 3 people. Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Age: 19 Posts: 2,736 Join Date: Aug 2007	Re: Gay women and the Bible. omg, that's the bible for you. A contradiction when interpreted completely fundementally. however this quote is one that proves that you can argue both ways with the bible I argue over this topic with my friend a lot, some people just can't accept that the bible was written by a lot of different people and not by god word for word. I believe that it offers us many lessons and teaching, but that if you take it word for word (which not many fundementalists do btw they just intepret word for word what suits them) anyway the bible should be used as a tool of love (which I think God intented it to be used as) instead of one of hate ily Ruth and Naomi __________________ "Do you think so little of me that if I had a choice, I'd choose to live my life dodging prejudice and discrimination?" What's all this stuff about choice? You are the way you are and no one can tell you contrary to what you know in your heart.

13th Oct 2008, 09:40 AM	#15
Psychedelic Bookmarks Helena Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Bisexual Out Status: Close family and quite a few friends Location: UK Age: 18 Posts: 2,195 Join Date: Oct 2007	Re: Gay women and the Bible. If you look on this website: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.or...uth_naomi.html It makes an excellent case for Ruth and Naomi being at least in love. I mean, they use their words in the marriage service! That's love in my book! But that's pretty much it :/ __________________ "I refuse to recognize the terms hetero-, bi-, and homo-sexual. Everybody has exactly the same sexual needs. People are just sexual, the prefix is immaterial." (Morissey) Last edited by Psychedelic Bookmarks; 13th Oct 2008 at 09:42 AM..

13th Oct 2008, 07:18 PM	#16
myra EC Addict Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Pansexual Out Status: Out to everyone Location: BTown, Ohio Age:* 22 Posts: 449 Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Gay women and the Bible. I found one! I wasn't intentionally searching but I found this in a reading I had to do for class. Its only one sentence, But still. "Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:24-27) So there is one verse in existence that talks about lesbianism.

14th Oct 2008, 01:16 PM	#18
VomAnderenUfer Member Regular Member Gender: Female Orientation: Lesbian Out Status: Out :-) Location: Germany Age: 24 Posts: 63 Join Date: Jan 2008	Re: Gay women and the Bible. I recall reading somewhere about anti-sodomy laws in England, and the reason that there weren't any directed towards women was that it was impossible for lawmakers at the time to conceive of how women would go about acting out their particular "unnatural passions." ;-) They just didn't think it was possible. It's a very blurry memory most probably from a not-reliable source, but I guess it's food-for-thought. It goes along with women not being expected to have a sex drive of their own, or really any volition outside of the will of their husbands. BTW, becky, you're awesome. Biblical lesbians. Who would have thunk...

14th Oct 2008, 01:30 PM	#19
Psychedelic Bookmarks Helena Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Bisexual Out Status: Close family and quite a few friends Location: UK Age: 18 Posts: 2,195 Join Date: Oct 2007	Re: Gay women and the Bible. When they considered criminalising lesbianism, they decided not to because they thought it would just put the idea in women's heads. Much easier to just keep women in ignorance and dependance, unaware that there even was such a possibility. __________________ "I refuse to recognize the terms hetero-, bi-, and homo-sexual. Everybody has exactly the same sexual needs. People are just sexual, the prefix is immaterial." (Morissey)