I am interested in finding out how many people share a similar view to mine when it comes to romantic relationships. I realize that I am probably in the extreme minority here, but I think this will provoke an interesting discussion nonetheless. Also, I am not saying there is a 'right way' or a 'wrong way' here--only that this is what I want and what I expect to work for me. ======== When I look around at most other people--whether they are in a same or opposite sex relationship--they always seem to draw everything back to love. Some people will talk almost wistfully about 'soul mates' and 'the one'--all of this, in my view is complete nonsense. Most of these relationships fail--simply look at the divorce rate. When I think about a relationship, the first thing I think about is commitment. At the basis of that commitment is loyalty. For me, everything is built upon the back of unshakable loyalty to one another. I do not mean sexual monogamy here, by the way. I am dismissive of sexual monogamy; what I am talking about here is putting each other before all other people. If your mother shows up and gives you an ultimatum between choosing me and her, it should only take you about five seconds to tell your mother goodbye, that it was nice knowing her, and good luck with her life. If you know I am guilty of some horrific crime, your first and only reaction should be to defend my innocence publicly. We may have huge disagreements privately, even angry and horrible arguments, but the moment we open the door to the rest of the world--it fades to the background. It is about hiding any cracks to prevent people on the outside from trying to break us apart. That is the type of unshakable loyalty that I want, a loyalty based on a deep commitment, that we are going to be together no matter what happens. For me, the next layer above this loyalty is honesty and trust. I want a guy I am with to be honest with me in everything. I want him to trust me. Similarly, I want to be able to be honest with him about everything, and I want to be able to trust him. This is why loyalty is so important. If there is a fear that one of us may run away when the going gets tough, life starts to happen, and the warts and personal flaws begin to show... this just creates an incentive to hide things, and avoid being honest because there is a lack of trust. For me, trust also means--and this should go without saying--that he is not going to betray my secrets to other people. If I share something personal with him, I expect it to remain between the two of us. The one exception I may permit is a therapist. Next, is shared values. I honestly cannot overstate the importance of this aspect of a relationship for me. Sharing the same general beliefs and world view is critically important to me. Of course, I do not think or want him to be a carbon copy of myself. It is perfectly fine if he disagrees with some things, as not all of my values are equal in their importance. However, I do have certain core values that are important to me, and it is essential that he share them. After shared values, it is important that we have shared dreams or ambitions. If we are going to build a life together, then we both need to be heading in the same direction. He can have all the other qualities, but want radically different things out of life. This is not a recipe for success. Finally, I am looking for a guy who adds value to my life. I do not need a man to "complete me" and there is no magical "other half". I am a fully complete person all on my own. The question that I have when it comes to adding a man to my life is: what value are you bringing with you? The last thing that i want is to be saddled with a guy who is going to drag me down rather than help build me up. We should both possess strengths that the other does not possess, and by working together we are both stronger--more successful--better at everything we do. Our union makes us stronger because we provide value to one another. After all of that this is where love comes into play. For me, love is like the icing on this cake. Love is important to me, but it does not even make the top five essential things. Of course I desire the warm fuzzies like everyone else. It is hard to describe what it is like to be wrapped in another mans arms and to feel safe, secure, and loved. There is almost a base and primal hunger for that feeling. Yet, this is not what builds a successful relationship. I do not believe that love conquers all. Plenty of people legitimately love one another, and for many of the reasons I stated things do not work out. Love is meaningless without loyalty, honesty, and trust--at the very least! I also believe that people go around making the assumption that if they are in love with someone, that it means that they will never want to have sex with someone else. Or they assume that because they love one person, that they may never develop feelings for someone else. This is just false. We all have the ability to fall in love again and again and again with different people. ...and sometimes love is built differently from person to person. Sometimes it happens shortly after you meet someone, and sometimes it develops out of a longstanding friendship. Both are equally valid. The problem I have with love, though, is that it is a fickle emotion. Our feelings may grow and diminish again and again over time. Various challenges in life and the relationship may cause difficulties. Part of a relationships commitment is being able to be honest about where you are, emotionally, and working to keep your feelings for one another kindled. If you feel yourself drifting away, then it is important to talk about it so it can be addressed together. This is where loyalty, honesty, and trust is important. This is where love and commitment are two separate things. A persons love may change with time, but their commitment to the relationship should never diminish. For me love is just a chemical cocktail in the brain. It is nice and important to have, but there are other qualities that are much more important. At times, I think romantic feelings can distract us from those other qualities. I also think people frequently confuse infatuation and lust with love--which I consider to be three different things. Love is something you have to build. It can be built on the backs of those other things, but those things can never serve as the sole basis for love. A crush is an infatuation, and lust is merely sexual desire. They may both be full of passion, but at some point both come to an end. All of this probably makes me sound like the least romantic person on EC. :lol: However, I am curious as to how many other people agree with this point of view, and if you do not agree with it--why not? How and why do you see things differently? How do you define a successful relationship?
Hi Aldrick, what a thoughtful and beautiful post. Hope you are in a romantic relationship - you are quite a catch, smart and sensible in what you are after. To your question - I agree with your view about romantic relationships. I can't imagine a (happy) relationship without loyalty to each other and trust. In fact I wouldn't be able to feel love for someone without such a concoction of (shared) values combined with strong feelings of attraction and care for each other. So in this respect I may not agree with you fully when you say that love is an important part but not the most important in a romantic relationship - for me love is the glue and ultimate result of all those shared values, principles, goals in life. I cannot reach the love point if all those other things are not present. Also, whereas I do not necessarily see monogamy as a value, I do consider it a prerequisite for commitment and possibly a demonstration of love too - but I agree this is just a subjective personal perspective! Another point where I differ from you slightly is on the statement that love can change in time but commitment stays the same. I view a romantic relationship as a state of equilibrium whereby the various components all evolve and change - however, the overall system stays in balance. Commitment is subject to such change too, or at least to the way we express it. One aspect I would throw into your mix is respect for each other - I found that respect often saved the day in my relationship (or lack of it made for a poo situation!). all in all, your post made for a great read and for a bit of introspection! Please do not change your views
I would say that from the heart, I am a super romantic guy. I am a sucker for love. If a boy tells me he loves me my heart will flutter away into the stars and I will become starstruck with love for him. I also love all the romantic situations, like camping together huddled around a campfire, cuddling each other for warmth and we are looking at each other like a bunch of lovebirds. Yes I am a big sucker for romance and love. I do actually realize though that relationships require more than just love, in fact a relationship can indeed begin without love. How so well let's tell a story. Bill and James were new friends, they both hadn't told each other anything about the other. These two boys would witness a fire in their hearts that would ultimately bring them closer than ever before. It started with hanging out with respective friend groups. One was a fairly flamboyant boy who had love for the dramatic in his heart ergo his friends being a large group of females who were a part of his favourite class drama. The other boy was fairly shy and nervous, he didn't like gossiping much but at home he was the gamer, he played many games and never shied away from blood and gore in his gaming, in fact he loved the brutalities and fatalities of the Mortal Kombat series. In secret the first boy also liked gaming, he was a creative gamer preferring the worlds of the Elder Scrolls and the battlefields of total war to the fighting of Mortal Kombat. But he enjoyed watching other people play those games that he wasn't too good at. For school days the two boys would simply have fun conversations. The shy one being very silent while listening to the flamboyant one talk and talk about his experiences in the world of RPGs and watching movies. The flamboyant boy was also a very talented actor and would often do impressions of famous film characters that he liked. He seemed like he was king of the world and he could do nothing wrong, but little did the shy boy know that the flamboyant boy had gone through a depression, one that almost led to him contemplating killing himself in fact every night that boy had his depression he would go into the kitchen and grab a knife preparing to plunge it into his body and let himself die. The shy boy had never felt a part of this world and one day, the flamboyant boy said something that caught the eye of the shy boy who was always listening. Before school, he heard the flamboyant boy rating men in terms of how hot they were. Now the shy boy walked round the corner and sat next to the flamboyant boy who turned pale with nervousness. He was so scared that this boy had caught him doing something that other boys did not do. The shy boy looked at him and whispered up to his ear, "Don't worry your secret is safe with me." The Flamboyant boy still shivering with fright from being caught began to panic and started saying things that didn't make sense. He was so afraid and time was standing still and so the flamboyant boy ran away to the toilets and locked himself in a cubicle. The shy boy let him be, now the shy boy was also very open with himself and (fast forward...) I know I am making an entire story but you get my point. I am a pretty romantic guy who actually believes that your idea of a relationship is true but do you really have to call it a romantic relationship. I believe Romance is the first step to a relationship and it is in fact the biggest step and the biggest risk you can take as trying to be romantic can lead to rejection. Love and admitting your feelings is an easier step than trying to start a relationship with someone as in the future of that story I was writing above, the boys sort of hide when they want to ask each other out. In fact it only happens because one of the boys writes a letter telling them to meet at the bus stop during lunch time. They walk along the street to the bus stop at different times and right there with all the nervousness the shy guy asks the flamboyant guy out on a date. Now the Flamboyant guy accepts because all is quiet and no one is right there to hear him say yes to a date with this guy. As the flamboyant guy cares too much about what others think of him. (You know who the Flamboyant Guy is actually based off (I'll give you a hint it's me)). But it's like a retelling of my story but a what if interpretation and it's really helpful in explaining romantic relationships and how they can start and what I think of them. Honesty, trust and loyalty are all the next stages which come after the semi Formal(Aus version of Prom) and the formal(Aus version of homecoming or something like that), In my story of course that's when the next stages of the relationship begin. The Flamboyant guy becomes loyal to his boyfriend and chooses him over everything else. In fact he comes out to his mother and she pretty much disowns him for discovering he is doing the wrong thing in her opinion. The flamboyant guy talks to his shy guy boyfriend and in that they show trust as the shy guy lets his boyfriend stay in his house as his mother and father are both really accepting people and treat the flamboyant guy like he is a member of the family. So already honesty and trust and loyalty are covered as the flamboyant guy's parents are pretty much, you choose between us and him and the flamboyant guy chose him instead of them. I think shared ambitions is important in terms of the relationship but not all ambitions and dreams have to be shared. Both of the boys in my story have a similar interest which is important in developing a relationship as I mentioned in the excerpt I wrote video gaming is that interest. Shared core values is pretty important too but I actually think it's not a necessity for a successful relationship as each person could hold different major ideals but these ideals could be not too extreme on either side and the relationship would hold together. So there is my idea of what a relationship is and Aldrick I'm sorry for the length of my post.
What an interesting thread... Well, for me, I'm still trying to figure out my own romantic ability but I do understand OP what you mean that so many people seem to get distracted by the idea of love. I think if I do go into a relationship, it will be more of a very deep friendship. Especially since sex isn't really a factor for me. This romantic relationship would take a very long time to develop since I'm very closed, and cautious when it comes to things in this area despite being an open person..at least publicly. So, probably over years it would just be a really mellow, comfortable relationship where we're not really friends but we're not really mates. I guess I can be romantic to someone else (e.g. roses, dates, the whole shebang since I just enjoy the reaction, not really out of love) but I detest being romanced in turn. It's just...strange to me. Simple acts like hugs, random dates and calls to check on how you are would be, I guess, my version of a romantic relationship. But it'd be solid since my partner has stuck by me for how many years - like c'mon, that's a shit ton of walls, moats, and castles that I've built and for someone to get through them all is pretty amazing and worth keeping. I am monogamous though and a tad bit posessive so..I doubt I could date a polyamorous person. I find it amazing that they can love so many people but I, myself can't share....lol, I sound terrible. >_< I also value honesty, loyalty and all that because I detest liars. And sharing core values is important but at the same time (as Roman Emperor-San said), we don't have to. As long as we have a shared basis/foundation of some very key values than that's fine. In regards to that ultimatum that was mentioned - if ever at one time I'm served an ultimatum then I'd have to drop someone right then and there. My family is very important to me and my partner doesn't have to love them but they have to at least respect and get along with them because my family has been there longer than they have. That love that I share with my family is a bond that can't be broken since it's been forged through sacrifice, and a shit ton of trials and tribulations. That kind of love can't be compared to and although a relationship with a partner could amount to the same weight as the love I have for my family, I think any partner I have will never (or at least be wise enough) not to serve an ultimatum.
