Do Nice Guys/Girls Finish Last?

I think shy and insecure individuals finish last, because they lack the confidence to go after what they want, allowing someone else to take that opportunity instead.

 

A big part of it is, if someone is 'nice' or perceived as such, there are a lot of people who will see them as an easy target to be taken advantage of or stepped over. Such oppressive individuals are, I have noticed, nearly always the kind who don't quite have the courage, wit, or intelligence to challenge just anyone, they have to go for the ones they see as the weakest, those least likely to retaliate or get one over on them in someway. This in turn pushes the nice guys/girls further down, diminishes their confidence, makes them less likely to try for things. This doesn't lay good foundations for success in a society that nearly always requires pushing to get ahead of the crowd.

I am always nice and polite to people by default, I work under the presumption that everyone is deserving of such until proven otherwise. But sometimes I will encounter someone like I mentioned above, who thinks that 'nice' translates as 'easy pushover'. I start to tone down the 'nice', I get a little more stern with them, usually not all at once, gradually will do it. And I see their faces fall, the expression changes from thinking: 'Ha ha I'm in for an easy ride.' to: 'What's going on here?' all the way through to: 'Oh shit, I've badly misjudged this and now I don't know where to go with it.' Usually they'll try to back down as carefully as possible to save themselves embarrassment. Sometimes they get agitated and befuddled. In any event they end up looking foolish.

And yeah I have also met asinine, allegedly 'nice guys/girls' who then turn on you without good reason simply because you're not giving them what they want. Genuine attempts at niceness include respecting other's wishes and being willing to bow out gracefully should they prove to be incompatible with yours, not turning disproportionately mean.

I don't know about nice people being entitled to privileges, given fair dues for making the effort as well as kindness in return certainly.


Oh and I prefer... a subjective good/bad girl. There's a time for kindness, and a time to stir shit up :icon_wink

 

People who are genuinely nice don't finish last because they aren't running a race. There is no underlining agenda. They are decent people because they see no reason not to be.

People who attempt to paint themselves as kind and caring for the sake of receiving something in return, whether that is attention, romance, or admiration, often finish last. As they rightfully should.

 

Personally, I think that's not the case at all, nice guys are the greatest, it's just that sometimes people take advantage of that.
And then there's obviously people who pretend to be nice, but aren't, and they get turned down because of that.

I don't really have much of preference between nice/bad boys/girls, because I've known bad boys who were the most sweet people once you get to know them. As long as they aren't horrible, I'm cool with them.

 

I think its cute to finish at the same time~ i mean wat <<

Good guys tend to handicap themselves a bit with their concern for others welfare at times. Or maybe their mature enough to realise winning isnt everything and even defeat has its merits. On the other hand when your a jerk and walk over other people to get what you want then you chose to walk alone at karma's mercy. I think its good to stride that middle ground and enjoy the perks of both sides, pretty much. Though personally I've always found the moral high ground is a good advantage to have.

To answer the second question, there too I admit I like a bit of both~ though I'll always tend to lean more towards nice guys, as their side is nearly always worth fighting for more, in my mind

 

One thing to consider is that being nice is sometimes interpreted as being weak. They are not the same. What happens is that the niceness, or just let's say being pleasant, rises to the forefront and then people decide to trespass. Then the person being trespassed on has to decide whether to walk, display some type of aggression (verbal), or a little bit of both.

Being pleasant and coming off as assertive / "don't fuck with me" can be a tough balance to strike.

 

I had a gf that thought she was always taken advantage of for being too nice. My perspective on it was a little different. She was nice and thoughtful, but really actually overly so, and it was expected that I would be appropriately grateful and reciprocal. Regardless of whether the niceties were even things I wanted. I played the role because I cared about her, but it was exhausting. Real nice shouldn't come with expectations.

 

I don't think so at all. I feel like most people view themselves as nice, and many of these people are genuinely nice. Honestly the biggest jerks I know just seem like everyone else, sometimes exceptionally nice, until you get to know them.

 

yes becuz they get their partner off first :roflmao: haha! sorry i had to

 

Pretty much what Gen and Tightrope said, especially Gen's comment about nice people not being in a race/not having an agenda. In this rather cynical world, it's often hard to believe such people exist.. well, they do! I have had the enormous privilege of meeting such people and I'm very proud to call them friends.

You're welcome to the "bad boys/girls".

 

Eh honestly I kinda hate the idea of dividing people up into nice vs. bad. Like I said, most people see themselves as nice. Very few people want to be 'bad' and when most people do something that's mean or hurtful, they find ways to justify themselves so that they are still good people. Almost everyone will do some bad and hurtful things, but most people will do far more nice, kind, generous things as well.

When people think of say a bad boy, they think of someone who is rebellious and such, and when we think of a nice guy, we think of the normal boy next door. Truth is, that rebel might do charity work and walk old ladies across the street, while the nice guy might be abusive towards his loved ones. Actually, people who are abusive have a tendency to be kind and nice to most people, and only their victims know their abusive side. That often times is a huge part of the reason that victims don't come forward, they don't feel they'll be believed.
Sorry to go on a whole rant about abuse, it's just kinda a pet peeve of mine when people look at this sorta thing as a black and white issue, when it very rarely is.

 

Nope. Nice people can succeed with the right drive and a little luck. If somebody uses other people as stepping stones, that often works in the short term, and will probably come back to haunt them.

I prefer nice people, and I understand that term is so vague. If somebody is a 'doormat' then they better at least bite off the feet of anyone that tries to walk all over them.

If my bullies made half as much progress as you, then I would forgive them outright. I don't know where they are in their lives.

 

There's so much more nuance to it. I'd hate to reduce the dynamics of personal qualities and success to a cynical dichotomy in which the good fail and the morally twisted succeed.

Those who claim that they failed for simply being nice tend to simplify it beyond reason; few people get poor grades or don't get the promotion they wanted just because they're nice people - it's also easy to say that unpleasant superiors or a nasty teacher are doing what they do because they're bad; "the bastard actually has a point" is often hard to drill into people when they're slighted by those they dislike. Good and bad are irrelevant in the face of skill in some contexts. And in that, we often find it easier to divide the world into the good and bad - so happening to find the good to be those who like and agree with us and the bad, those who hinder and oppose us. Gratifying as it is as a method to cope with failure, it's not realistic and allows us to refuse to address our limitations.

Niceness without assertiveness will generally fail you in achieving goals that involve negotiation, and niceness can't be limited to the meek alone. Those too nervous to ask their love interest out on a date aren't being rejected because they're lovely people - they're not even in a position to be rejected if they're too shy. If they do ask and are rejected, is it really nice to take offence at that choice instead of accepting it? Is simply not being a bad person actually sufficiently attractive to let you deserve someone, especially if it's you who have decided that you're nice?

Niceness is such a subjective concept. I almost always hear very personal complaints about this - those who upset us are bad, so those who beat us to or stop us from getting what we want must be morally wrong. With few exceptions, the notion eponymous to the thread is largely bitterness and personal emotional wounds.

Save the pretentious cretins who think labelling themselves as evil is cool or intimidating and those with terrible self-esteem who can't bear to be positive about themselves, almost everyone, be they successful, mediocre or an utter failure will think they're nice. So I don't think it's very reflective of reality to say that being nice is the only defining feature of failure or of success. There are so many more objective ways to talk about the issue of who does and doesn't get on in life that I believe this conversation should probably be left to the wayside.

 

Perfect!

 

This. All of this.

 

I prefer honest, straight-forward and a bit "incorrect" guys. Not guys who go out of their way to be mean, but rather, someone who isn't afraid of stating ugly truths. Confrontational guys <3

I tend to be kind and friendly, because why not? I get kicks out of seeing others' smiles. I've tried being more candid though, because I've had a habit of telling people what they like to hear instead of what I feel like, which isn't always a good thing.

Oh, I seem to only have answered the bonus question.
I haven't met any people who fit the "nice but not really at all" criterion.

 

I see myself in this description and this is also who I prefer to hang out with. Exactly. They're not at all mean-spirited. They're just blunt.