Wow

"Stop oppressing my right to oppress others! Be more tolerant of my intolerance!"

 

To me this is a very simple case.

She didn't refuse to make him the cake, she just refused to write the hateful message. So, technically, she didn't say no, she didn't want to participate in his plot. You are free to buy markers and paper to write your bigoted message for the next big gay parade, but you can't ask the owner of the shop to do that for you. That is your task.

This is different from fining someone for refusing to make a wedding cake to a gay couple. A wedding cake is a wedding cake and there's nothing different between any of them. It's like refusing to serve latte someone who's gay, because it violates your religious principles.

 

It's a complicated situation because the person will be discriminating ether way.
Personally I don't know why Christians focus on homosexuality when they could be focused on things like helping people who need it

 

Personally, I believe the baker did no wrong at all. People in other places may say I'm biased because of my sexuality, but I place my facts on things like this solely on well, the facts. It has nothing to do with my personal life.

In my opinion, like with many others, I say that the baker has all the right in the world to refuse a certain message. She is not refusing to make him a cake, and she is definitely not hindering his freedom of speech, since he can say whatever he wants to say - himself. Asking her to write a hateful message on a cake is almost removing her freedom of speech, in the way I see it. She would be forced to "say" (write) what she doesn't believe/approve of. If he is not the one to write the words on the cake, then he's not the one technically saying it.

This man goes on to say that she is "discriminating against his religion", but is he not doing that to her? Let's say she's happened to be a lesbian - Being forced to write anti-gay text on a cake is like forcing her to discriminate against her own beliefs. I'm not saying that's what happened, obviously, but it's the same no matter her sexuality. If he can choose what he wants written on a cake, then she can choose whether or not she wants to write it.

 

Dear Customer,

We have the right to serve you, or to refuse to serve you, depending on your request.

By entering our premises, you agree to the terms of this contract.

If you don't agree with our policy, please leave and have a nice day.

Thank you.

Done.

It's sad that such things are needed... But it seems there is a need for them.

I wonder how this particular case will go legally speaking, how it will end... Maybe there is more information about this case. They might be trying to ruin her for whatever reason. It's wrong to go and make assumptions when you don't know enough about a particular case, and the ones involved.

 

you are not obligated to give someone a platform for their speech, even if we accept that this person has a right to free speech to print whatever they want on cakes. Private institutions do not have the positive obligation to give platforms to hate speech.

for example, if I were posting homophobic messages on this website, I would be banned, and rightfully so. My free speech as garunteed by virtue of being an American would not be violated because this website does not have a positive obligation to give me a platform for hateful speech.

that said, this does not grant businesses the right to discriminate against customers by irrelevant facts about their life, like gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or religion.

 

Does "free speech" even apply here? I thought businesses like that have a right to do what they want, that's why they have "right to refuse service" signs. So that means it goes both ways: they don't have to make a cake for a gay wedding but they also don't have to make an anti-gay cake.

 

I disagree. This doesn't have anything to do with free speech. At all.

Customers are allowed to think, or say, or put on their cake whatever they want, but bakers are just as well allowed to not put on their cake whatever they want.

Obviously, this goes both ways. Bakers should be allowed to refuse pro-gay messages, too. That's what true freedom of speech is. Saying the baker has to put whatever it is the customer wants on her cake is actually the opposite of free speech!

 

My thoughts exactly when I read this :lol:

 

What's weird in the US is that most of the limits on free speech surround sex.

I wonder if I could sue if they refused to bake a cake with a penis on it? I mean, it is just a part of the body, and maybe having it on a cake is part of my pagan ways, and celebrating joy, pleasure and fertility.

I may have to try this =p

 

This is NOT complicated in any way.


In the USA, any retailer (of any kind) has the RIGHT to refuse service to ANYONE.

This douchebag who wanted this cake was NOT FORCED to go to this bakery, he had free will to go to any bakery he wanted, and if he didn't get service at one bakery, all he has to do is go to another one.

This is part of FREE ENTERPRISE.



If you don't like it, go someplace else.
Simple as that.

 

This reminds me of this neckbeard. Be warned, it's a little difficult to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJaroR_qTNs#t=57

 

Anti-discrimination laws prevent businesses from discriminating against a customer (in certain cases), but not against a product.

Understanding this distinction makes this case very simple.

While businesses are usually prohibited from refusing to sell products they do offer to some people to particular other people, they have the right to not sell a particular product to anyone. In the case of a bakery, each custom cake is a slightly distinct product, and it's therefore within the right of the business to not sell that particular cake to anyone.

If a bakery only sold generic cakes, and they refused to sell them to a certain customer, that's discrimination against the customer (and might be a violation of anti-discrimination laws depending on why they discriminated against that customer). If they offer cakes with customized messages, but do not make a cake with a particular message to anyone simply because they don't like the message, then they are discriminating against the particular product.

In this case, the bakery offered to sell the generic cake even after the customer requested the bigoted message be written on the cake. So the bakery was not discriminating against the customer. Even if they did discriminate against that customer, it probably wouldn't have been discriminating against the customer based on religion (since they probably treat any bigoted person the same regardless of religious background). Any decent judge would laugh them out of court.

 

... Could be... Or could be that some investor just wants to kick her out and get the bakery, and they are paying mr. bigot to go there and start the snowball, as well as the lawyers that could ruin her at court. As a possibility, just that. It doesn't have always to be the world against us.

That was my first throught.

BobObob... That was totally... Like a lawyer ... We'll see what happens to the girl. (Good) lawyers tend to be pretty expensive. It could ruin her.

 

I don't believe free speech applies here. The first amendment of the US Constitution reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Congress made no law. A private business refused to be the medium to promote hate speech. It would be the same as if someone were to make a hateful anti-gay post here. The mods would delete it, and rightly so, as it would violate the terms of service here, and would only serve to start an argument. Likewise a TV station or network that is privately owned, such as ABC, CBS, etc. Can choose not to air a program that they don't feel promotes the message they want to promote.